Why do DLR station platforms not feature standard tfl roundels?

[A60stock]

So I'm wondering why this is the ONLY major tfl rail type service not to feature roundels at the station platforms? (turquoise with blue bar)

I am not saying they should be fitted now as it would be costly but just wondering why these never got them at all throughout its entire history, but the Overground and Elizabeth Line did get them? I have never really come across an answer as to why this is the case.

 

[MCR247]

Can you be more specific? For example, this image of Poplar shows station signs having the roundel to the left of the station name, and also slightly blocked from view there is a DLR roundel on the bridge near the entrance.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes all stations i can think of have signs like that. Maybe the OP means large roundels?

 

[MCR247]

Perhaps. I imagine that’s just down to the DLRs long running identify crisis.

I imagine it could be as simple as the DLR featuring rectangular station name signs on opening and so during ‘roundel-isation’ it was easiest to just put an image of the roundel alongside the station name.

 

[edwin_m]

The tram doesn't have roundels either.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The tram doesn't have roundels either.

Doesn't it? I thought they had a green circle version of the roundel with "Trams" on a blue bar?

Consistent with the image, but distinct for the different service.

 

[birchesgreen]

Doesn't it? I thought they had a green circle version of the roundel with "Trams" on a blue bar?

Consistent with the image, but distinct for the different service.

Yes they have similar signs to the DLR.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Doesn't it? I thought they had a green circle version of the roundel with "Trams" on a blue bar?

They do, but it's the same as on the DLR: a small roundel symbol with the station name alongside it on the small rectangular station name boards. Neither system have the large roundels with the station name in the middle bar, as on (most) LU and LO stations.

 

[birchesgreen]

Maybe the reasoning is light rail has more frequent stops, shorter trains and shorter journeys than other modes so there is less need for the big roundel? Plus the nature of DLR/tram stops means there is a lot less space to play with.

 

[Sun Chariot]

So I'm wondering why this is the ONLY major tfl rail type service not to feature roundels at the station platforms? (turquoise with blue bar)

Wasn't the DLR a separate entity when it first launched? Only absorbed into TfL network a few years later?

The trains, originally in blue, merely had the legend Docklands Light Railway. The stations signs, white text upon a dark blue background, also ommitted a roundel until absorbed into TfL ownership.

The stations and the DLR trains certainly bore small roundels when I used the DLR network - on a daily basis 2005 to 2012.

 

[A60stock]

Spot on - I was referring to the large enamel roundels with the station name in the middle.

Looks like it might be due to a combination of history and because it's a light rail service (similar to the trams)

 

[birchesgreen]

Spot on - I was referring to the large enamel roundels with the station name in the middle.

Looks like it might be due to a combination of history and because it's a light rail service (similar to the trams)

I think it may be due a lack of space and the nature of the stations too, they tend to be small and have glass walls.

 

[Mojo]

Wasn't the DLR a separate entity when it first launched? Only absorbed into TfL network a few years later?

I'm not sure that's the answer as the DLR has been the responsibility of TfL since TfL was founded in July 2000, whereas the London Underground has only fallen under TfL since July 2003.

 

[tom1996]

If you look at the DLR design guide it sets out that the streamlined architectural character of the stations don’t afford the ability to have full roundels. They’d be visually discordant and introduce clutter, to otherwise pretty minimal stations with lots of glass in comparison to LU/LO.

Having said that Bank has the station name in roundels on the platforms alongside the more traditional style signs.

 

[Thirteen]

If you look at the DLR design guide it sets out that the streamlined architectural character of the stations don’t afford the ability to have full roundels. They’d be visually discordant and introduce clutter, to otherwise pretty minimal stations with lots of glass in comparison to LU/LO.

Having said that Bank has the station name in roundels on the platforms alongside the more traditional style signs.

The Trams are the same, there is no space for roundels on the platforms.

 

[A60stock]

Historically, yes, the DLR platforms were too small, however, these days they seem large enough? All stations fit 6 car trains (with a few exceptions I think) and are similar in size to the smaller tube stations.

Re the trams - Yes, the platforms are far too small (imo those aren't even "stations", they are stops, which have more in common with bus stop shelters than train stations!)

 

[ocean_life]

Wasn't the DLR a separate entity when it first launched? Only absorbed into TfL network a few years later?

The trains, originally in blue, merely had the legend Docklands Light Railway. The stations signs, white text upon a dark blue background, also ommitted a roundel until absorbed into TfL ownership.

The stations and the DLR trains certainly bore small roundels when I used the DLR network - on a daily basis 2005 to 2012.

Indeed, this is correct. When the DLR was created it was a wholly owned subsiduary of LRT (London Regional Transport). Bizarrely, in 1992 it was transferred to the LDDC and with winding up of the LDDC around 1998 it was passed back to LRT, which in turn became TfL in 2000.

At the start it was always marketed as "nothing to do with LRT", although untrue as LRT's zonal ticketing was valid and LRT had decided on the routes. I suspect the reason for the stand alone nature was the intention to privatise it (and LUL) once established. LRT was mainly a holding company for the subsidiaries, although also had core planning functions.

 

[nwales58]

I didn’t know of the design guide but it fits with my memory, which is fuzzy 45 years on. “Nothing to do with LRT” is spot on though.

It probably helps to explain the spirit of the 80s. After the 1979 election any idea of the Fleet/Jubilee Line extension east of Charing Cross was dead as public investment was chopped abruptly. But Docklands development was very much alive, private capital-driven of course. DLR was needed to plug the gap between these. This is all generalisations, the govt seemed to think Canary Wharf could be overwhelmingly car, transport people and developers knew it needed good public transport to succeed. The image of public transport in London was pretty bad in the new era.

So DLR had to look new, nothing like existing rail. It also had to be cheap, honestly noone knew what its usage would be, the government attitude really was that only losers used public transport. Losers would not be living or working in Docklands so DLR could be tiny. Also everything ought to be done by the private sector. If Olympia & York thought they needed a fatter DLR then of course they or a private company would pay (they went bust before paying up).

Everything about DLR needed to be 1) it’s not that dreadful underground, 2) it’s only a temporary accident that it’s in the public sector, colliding with hard realities.

 

[TrenHotel]

Indeed, when the DLR opened it had continental-style ticket validators, although these were binned after the first few years as people found them confusing. (And they wouldn’t have worked at Bank.)

It was only when TfL adopted the roundel as its symbol (this wasn’t the case in its earliest days) in 2001/2 and created a “family” of roundels for each system that the DLR image and signage we have today was adopted. There are still remnants of the previous looks kicking around in a few places.

 

[A60stock]

Indeed, when the DLR opened it had continental-style ticket validators, although these were binned after the first few years as people found them confusing. (And they wouldn’t have worked at Bank.)

It was only when TfL adopted the roundel as its symbol (this wasn’t the case in its earliest days) in 2001/2 and created a “family” of roundels for each system that the DLR image and signage we have today was adopted. There are still remnants of the previous looks kicking around in a few places.

And since TFL adopted the family of roundels, the only thing they didn't do was provide the stations with platform roundels.

 

[Sun Chariot]

And since TFL adopted the family of roundels, the only thing they didn't do was provide the stations with platform roundels.

The roundels and DLR legend are on the station nameboards, usually attached to platform lighting posts / walls

 

[jon81uk]

The roundels and DLR legend are on the station nameboards, usually attached to platform lighting posts / walls

But thats the difference, the DLR has nameboards, with the roundel used as a logo on the nameboard. Whereas the Underground & Overground have large roundels on the platform with the station name on the roundel.

 

[Sun Chariot]

But thats the difference, the DLR has nameboards, with the roundel used as a logo on the nameboard. Whereas the Underground & Overground have large roundels on the platform with the station name on the roundel.

Yes, I absolutely agree. My post was in reply to a comment in post 20:

"And since TFL adopted the family of roundels, the only thing they didn't do was provide the stations with platform roundels."

...which I inferred to mean the DLR stations have no roundel featured at all.

 

[jon81uk]

Yes, I absolutely agree. My post was in reply to a comment in post 20:

"And since TFL adopted the family of roundels, the only thing they didn't do was provide the stations with platform roundels."

...which I inferred to mean the DLR stations have no roundel featured at all.

I think your inference was incorrect though, that comment is correct, DLR platforms don't have platform roundels, they have nameboards with a roundel logo on the nameboard.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I think your inference was incorrect though, that comment is correct, DLR platforms don't have platform roundels, they have nameboards with a roundel logo on the nameboard.

When the Beckton and the King George V / Woolwich Arsenal branches opened, I thought the large DLR roundels at station entrances - just  DLR instead of the station's name - was a bit of a missed opportunity for 'public-friendly' information.

The giant  DLR roundel featured in Woolwich Arsenal's glass entrance.
The large self adhesive  DLR roundel at King George V and at City Airport
The post mounted 3D DLR roundels at the entrances to each Beckton branch station.

I guess it's cheaper to manufacture and supply one common design.

 

[edwin_m]

When the Beckton and the King George V / Woolwich Arsenal branches opened, I thought the large DLR roundels at station entrances - just  DLR instead of the station's name - was a bit of a missed opportunity for 'public-friendly' information.

The giant  DLR roundel featured in Woolwich Arsenal's glass entrance.
The large self adhesive  DLR roundel at King George V and at City Airport
The post mounted 3D DLR roundels at the entrances to each Beckton branch station.

I guess it's cheaper to manufacture and supply one common design.

It's similar to Underground stations where the most prominent external signage is a roundel which just says "Underground", and indeed all stations where the double arrow is bigger than the station name on the external sign. More people will want to know that this is a DLR or Underground station, than which station it actually is.

 

[A60stock]

The roundels and DLR legend are on the station nameboards, usually attached to platform lighting posts / walls

Sorry if i'm not being clear but what you have stated is exactly the difference. There are no large enamel roundels on their own, SOLO, with the name of the station on the blue bar.

I am aware the DLR has roundels in some form. It does not have them with the station name in between when it comes to the norm. There may be a few exceptions somewhere.......

I thought there was a clear reason for this but reading above, it looks like its actually a far more complicated question than I expected!

 

[pdeaves]

The question:

Why this format


and not this format

 

[LLivery]

Tbh, I've always preferred the former on the mainline, partly because I don't like capital letters for directional signage and we don't use them on motorway signs for a reason.

LO do use both (and a totally different one at Crystal Palace for some reason), though I can't think of an EL one.

Maybe, it's just cheaper? How much is a big roundel vs a normal board?

 

[Recessio]

Tbh, I've always preferred the former on the mainline, partly because I don't like capital letters for directional signage and we don't use them on motorway signs for a reason.

LO do use both (and a totally different one at Crystal Palace for some reason), though I can't think of an EL one.

Maybe, it's just cheaper? How much is a big roundel vs a normal board?

I wonder if a roundel has to be a new sign, whereas the normal board can just be hung from an existing bracket for a Network Southeast/privatisation standard sized sign (or even just vinyled over)