Why didn’t CAF win more orders during early post privatization?

[RacsoMoquette]

The CAF Zaragoza built Class 333s and 332s were such a minority? Why was this? As the Class 333s for Northern Spirit were the only new train order to be built on time, and to have a reliable introduction, unlike their contemporaries like the Electrostar, Turbostar, Coradia 100, and Coradia Juniper. My question is why didn’t more operators order the units?

 

[tfw756rider]

As I understand it, in the case of the 333s and 332s, CAF was just the build contractor for Siemens Transportation Systems.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

As @tfw756rider says they were Siemens units; Siemens subcontracted the bodyshell construction to CAF.

The 333s were unreliable in cold weather when new because if the pantograph hit ice on the overhead wire the onboard computer panicked, dropped the pantograph and shut the unit down. I remember a morning in Autumn 2000 when three failed almost simultaneously, all with a class 308 behind (so unable to assist) and the entire Leeds/Bradford - Skipton/Ilkley "triangle" came to a screeching halt. And that was far from unique! A reprogram largely sorted the issue, but I recall failing with one c.2008/9 for similar reasons, although by then the 308s had all been recycled into bean tins so there was a 333 behind which could assist. Even then the couplings had frozen so it was like a demolition derby to get them coupled up!
So largely reliable, but not 100%!

 

[MCR247]

I can’t recall CAF bidding for all that much back then

 

[Merle Haggard]

Didn't CAF build the bodies on the 180s? Or have I been completely misled by a spotters' book?

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Didn't CAF build the bodies on the 180s? Or have I been completely misled by a spotters' book?

They were built by Alstom at Washwood Heath in Birmingham, not by CAF. I'm not sure where the author(s) of the book have got that from!

 

[Merle Haggard]

They were built by Alstom at Washwood Heath in Birmingham, not by CAF. I'm not sure where the author(s) of the book have got that from!

Thanks, another myth busted.

 

[Pumbaa]

Not sure about early privatisation, but certainly in mid years leading up to the Arriva Northern bid when they were aggressively touting their products, they were cheap on paper but financiers put a heavy premium on them for various reasons (local financing risk, ability to meet the spec, etc). I’m surprised it took them that long to break through, but not that they eventually managed it.

Post that the financing cost premium significantly fell away.

 

[Starmill]

Like most train assembling outfits, they mostly did have commercial success at deliveries to places nearer to where they had plants at the time.

Obviously, today, that includes Newport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2025 ==

As @tfw756rider says they were Siemens units; Siemens subcontracted the bodyshell construction to CAF.

Indeed so. It was also claimed at the time that if Siemens' plants had the capacity within the delivery timeframe to construct the 333/332 orders themselves they would have done so. I don't know if that's actually true of course.