Why did some operators have number, then 2 destination displays ?

[Simon75]

Why did some operators like GM Buses, London Transport have route number, destination then a separate one with a few routes on it

Eg. https://share.google/bnDvdlPrPtc8B6S7U

 

[PeterC]

Why did some operators like GM Buses, London Transport have route number, destination then a separate one with a few routes on it

Eg. https://share.google/bnDvdlPrPtc8B6S7U

The show the intermediate calling points.

Good marketing and stopped people holding the bus up to ask where it was going.

All the operators where I live still do this, just with electronic displays you can build it into a single display.

 

[Leedsbusman]

The show the intermediate calling points.

Good marketing and stopped people holding the bus up to ask where it was going.

All the operators where I live still do this, just with electronic displays you can build it into a single display.

You could with a roller too as many did.
Some electronic displays allow GPS changes to the displays as a weakness of fixed displays is they can mislead once you have passed the via point displayed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The show the intermediate calling points.

Good marketing and stopped people holding the bus up to ask where it was going.

All the operators where I live still do this, just with electronic displays you can build it into a single display.

In the days of manual blinds London had a curious variant on this which was that the side blind only showed a mid-route via point (e.g. "via Bank") so the driver would only need to change the front blind at each end and not leave the cab.

 

[aliceh]

Some, of course, went one further. Yellow Buses also had a third destination display which was used for showing which route the bus took into the town centre

(image shows a Yellow Buses Leyland fleetline with four displays including a square below the route number, here showing a blue background with "via Old Christchurch Road")

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think high quality stop information has reduced the need for this, certainly in London. It was of more importance when most people didn't board buses at stops, but just jumped on at the lights.

 

[mangad]

GM Buses's blind layout went all the way back to Manchester Corporation's Mancunian bus body.

Two big boxes on the top row - one with the route number, one with the calling points for the route.
Then the box at the bottom showed the destination.

After deregulation a lot of operators who bought ex-GM vehicles painted over the via point display, put the company logo there (as seen in this example from Mayne), or simply left it blank. Presumably because it was too much hassle to produce the blinds.

 

[PeterC]

In the days of manual blinds London had a curious variant on this which was that the side blind only showed a mid-route via point (e.g. "via Bank") so the driver would only need to change the front blind at each end and not leave the cab.

On crew operated vehicles the side and rear blinds were operated by the conductor but the blind over the door still only showed the intermediate points. There used to be a full route display at the rear. Right up to the early routemasters the route number was displayed on the offside of double decker. You can spot the blanked off display on preserved vehicles

 

[Whisky Papa]

GM Buses's blind layout went all the way back to Manchester Corporation's Mancunian bus body.

Two big boxes on the top row - one with the route number, one with the calling points for the route.
Then the box at the bottom showed the destination.

After deregulation a lot of operators who bought ex-GM vehicles painted over the via point display, put the company logo there (as seen in this example from Mayne), or simply left it blank. Presumably because it was too much hassle to produce the blinds.

I'm curious - are you referring to an earlier 'Mancunian' body than the 1960s one? I've a vague feeling the term might have been used earlier. Certainly the three blind layout was in use for half-cab and early rear-engined Manchester Corporation (MCT) buses prior to the 1960s Mancunian design.

The third blind was officially referred to as the 'intermediate' but tended to be known to platform (and schedules) staff as the 'via blind'. Historically most MCT buses stuck to the same route all day, but as more interworking came into the picture, frequently changing them was a pain - from memory, they tended to be rather long!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm curious - are you referring to an earlier 'Mancunian' body than the 1960s one? I've a vague feeling the term might have been used earlier. Certainly the three blind layout was in use for half-cab and early rear-engined Manchester Corporation (MCT) buses prior to the 1960s Mancunian design.

Indeed - in fact it dates from the 1950s at least. They had trolleybuses with the same layout.

 

[edwin_m]

The Oldham Atlanteans (and possibly their predecessors) also had "via" blinds, but below the main destination and a similar size. All were behind one window with the route numbers. I think quite a few operators had something similar.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On Manchester area services it could also show stuff like "Express", so not just relying on the X prefix to indicate that, if I recall rightly it was white italic text on a green background. I *think* "Part Route" was also on it.

 

[SSmith2009]

Centrebus have recently updated their destination displays so as the bus passes a via point it is removed from the via points shown on the front screen.

 

[Trainman40083]

Some, of course, went one further. Yellow Buses also had a third destination display which was used for showing which route the bus took into the town centre

View attachment 190827
(image shows a Yellow Buses Leyland fleetline with four displays including a square below the route number, here showing a blue background with "via Old Christchurch Road")

I still remember those colours from my holidays in Bournemouth. Blue via Old Christchurch Road, red via Bath Road and green via Richmond Hill.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2025 ==

I think high quality stop information has reduced the need for this, certainly in London. It was of more importance when most people didn't board buses at stops, but just jumped on at the lights.

I think when they changed the blinds in London, I stopped using the buses. I'd be walking around on a visit, notice locations the bus went through, and jump on. When they just showed a final destination, other options just seem easier.

 

[mangad]

I'm curious - are you referring to an earlier 'Mancunian' body than the 1960s one? I've a vague feeling the term might have been used earlier. Certainly the three blind layout was in use for half-cab and early rear-engined Manchester Corporation (MCT) buses prior to the 1960s Mancunian design.

I was referring to the 1960s Mancunian. Didn't realise it goes even further back! Found a picture of the Crossley Mancunian with it on.

 

[Andyh82]

GM Buses's blind layout went all the way back to Manchester Corporation's Mancunian bus body.

Two big boxes on the top row - one with the route number, one with the calling points for the route.
Then the box at the bottom showed the destination.

After deregulation a lot of operators who bought ex-GM vehicles painted over the via point display, put the company logo there (as seen in this example from Mayne), or simply left it blank. Presumably because it was too much hassle to produce the blinds.

I remember the ones that Yorkshire Rider bought, they went to the effort of creating ‘via’ blinds. Probably as they had higher standards than the average post-dereg independent. At the time the native West Yorkshire Atlanteans/Fleetlines just had single line destinations.

 

[Whisky Papa]

I was referring to the 1960s Mancunian. Didn't realise it goes even further back! Found a picture of the Crossley Mancunian with it on.

Thank you, the Crossley was the one I had vaguely in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2025 ==

I remember the ones that Yorkshire Rider bought, they went to the effort of creating ‘via’ blinds. Probably as they had higher standards than the average post-dereg independent. At the time the native West Yorkshire Atlanteans/Fleetlines just had single line destinations.

Only drove them with Yorkshire Rider a couple of times, I'd forgotten about the 'via' blinds being still in use.

However, you have reminded me that the low-height Northern Counties bodied Olympians we had at Todmorden (5156-65) were built with two-line destination blinds, the lower one being a 'via' blind that generally showed 'via Todmorden' or 'via Hebden Bridge' as appropriate. They were reconfigured some time in the 1990s with a single line using the top and bottom rollers from both blinds combined, and a very much larger font for the destination display.

 

[ACBest]

Centrebus have recently updated their destination displays so as the bus passes a via point it is removed from the via points shown on the front screen.

Takes FOREVER to program it, but is satisfying to see in action!

 

[Cesarcollie]

Takes FOREVER to program it, but is satisfying to see in action!

Is it all part of the same functionality as the interior audio-visual displays, out of interest?

 

[ACBest]

Is it all part of the same functionality as the interior audio-visual displays, out of interest?

It certainly is - feel free to drop me a PM if you’d like any technical info, happy to share!

 

[Roger1973]

In the days of manual blinds London had a curious variant on this which was that the side blind only showed a mid-route via point (e.g. "via Bank") so the driver would only need to change the front blind at each end and not leave the cab.

There are still some like that - saw one a couple of days ago, in the Croydon patch on an Arriva bus. Similar to this one (not my photo / account on Flickr.) I assume they don't have 'smart blinds' that can be set all round from the cab.

I think the arguments about whether having 'via points' blinds is a good idea or not was probably done in some detail when TFL were phasing them out. But apart from the issue of whether a bus might already have passed some of the via points, there was also the question of buses turning short of the normal terminus, either as a service control measure or where this was scheduled (the latter is very much a rarity now.)

Until the 1980s at least, some London routes had multiple 'via points' displays to cater for a route running in separate sections or ran a shorter / longer version of the route on Sundays (or whatever) although whether the 'inside staff' set the right one up for the particular circumstances was variable.

On Manchester area services it could also show stuff like "Express", so not just relying on the X prefix to indicate that, if I recall rightly it was white italic text on a green background. I *think* "Part Route" was also on it.

I've seen photographs of Edinburgh / Lothian buses with 'part route' showing in place of via points, and Southend Corporation buses with something like 'Diverted from normal route'.

I've not seen 'part route' on a Manchester bus, but that of course doesn't prove it didn't exist. I think Manchester tended to show an X after the route number for short workings or anything else unusual.

Manchester also had 'FOG' as a via point (as in this photo - also not mine / not my account) - I think this was to show passengers that services were being disrupted, as fog might have been worse in the city centre than the suburbs (although I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard an official explanation.)

 

[Ken H]

I remember the ones that Yorkshire Rider bought, they went to the effort of creating ‘via’ blinds. Probably as they had higher standards than the average post-dereg independent. At the time the native West Yorkshire Atlanteans/Fleetlines just had single line destinations.

But earlier back loaders showed destination, route number and via points. As did West Yorkshiire road car. All dispensed with late 60's. My bus home displayed Primley Park, but the lower blind showed Staonbeck Lane and King Lane and 70. This was Leeds City Transport days.

 

[Andyh82]

Thank you, the Crossley was the one I had vaguely in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2025 ==


Only drove them with Yorkshire Rider a couple of times, I'd forgotten about the 'via' blinds being still in use.

However, you have reminded me that the low-height Northern Counties bodied Olympians we had at Todmorden (5156-65) were built with two-line destination blinds, the lower one being a 'via' blind that generally showed 'via Todmorden' or 'via Hebden Bridge' as appropriate. They were reconfigured some time in the 1990s with a single line using the top and bottom rollers from both blinds combined, and a very much larger font for the destination display.

I’ve dug out some old Metro Transport News, and it seems the GM Fleetlines only had 4 points on the via blinds

Via Halifax / Blackley / Outlane / West Vale

Any other service, it had to be wound to a black blank.

Yorkshire Rider reintroduced via blinds with the F/G reg Olympians and metro buses. It’d been single line destinations only since the formation of the WYPTE. By H reg though electronic destinations became standard (and then went back to blinds again after the Badgerline takeover)

 

[AdamWW]

I’ve dug out some old Metro Transport News, and it seems the GM Fleetlines only had 4 points on the via blinds

Via Halifax / Blackley / Outlane / West Vale

Any other service, it had to be wound to a black blank.

Yorkshire Rider reintroduced via blinds with the F/G reg Olympians and metro buses. It’d been single line destinations only since the formation of the WYPTE. By H reg though electronic destinations became standard (and then went back to blinds again after the Badgerline takeover)

I've got an EFE model Daimler Fleetline in West Yorkshire "Metrobus" livery with triple destination boards, but unlike the Manchester layout it has two long ones one the left and a square route number display on the right.

The top one reads "Huddersfield" and the lower one "Scenic Tour". I presume usually the lower one would be for a "via" display.

I expect this model is based on a real prototype but it's not a layout I'm otherwise familiar with.

 

[Roger1973]

I expect this model is based on a real prototype but it's not a layout I'm otherwise familiar with.

yes, former Huddersfield Corporation Fleetline.

The lower blind was originally intended to show a 'via' point. On the nearside, there was a destination and via point blind, but no route number.

Photo (once again, not mine) of bus now preserved / restored as Huddersfield 473 here.

 

[AdamWW]

yes, former Huddersfield Corporation Fleetline.

The lower blind was originally intended to show a 'via' point. On the nearside, there was a destination and via point blind, but no route number.

Photo (once again, not mine) of bus now preserved / restored as Huddersfield 473 here.

Ah - most interesting.

Almost the same registration as the model. Though the model just has the lower side blind (and that seems to have been converted to just a route number display, showing blank).

 

[Roger1973]

Almost the same registration as the model. Though the model just has the lower side blind (and that seems to have been converted to just a route number display, showing blank).

Yes, probably one of the same batch.

A Flickr search on Huddersfield Fleetline brings up a variety of types, some in Huddersfield livery and some in WYPTE livery.

I don't know the Huddersfield fleet well enough to know when the side blind displays were amended, but it was not uncommon for 1960s rear engined buses to have their side and / or rear destination displays reduced or removed when they were converted for what was then called 'one man operation' (up to a point, they would have been crew operated when new) - and / or may have been to standardise across the PTE.

 

[AdamWW]

what was then called 'one man operation'

Oh yes - complete with board behind the windscreen announcing the fact.

 

[birchesgreen]

WMPTE buses in Birmingham often had a small display that said TO CITY or FROM CITY in it.

 

[etr221]

WMPTE buses in Birmingham often had a small display that said TO CITY or FROM CITY in it.

That was I believe, and AIUI, a Birmingham Corporation (pre WMPTE) innovation (not quite sure when it came in), based on their services largely radiating from the city centre - after it came in, the main 'destination' display would be the outer terminal for city bound buses.