Why Can't they Get the Temperature Right?

[Envoy]

Yesterday, I travelled on a FGW HST and it was rather too cold - especially as most people were wearing thin summer clothes to cope with the heat outside. Conversely, in winter, when we have thicker clothing on for outdoor use, the heating is often too high.

Why can't rail companies/staff set the heating to a comfortable level? At least in my own car I have control!

 

[A-driver]

Mainly because it is PUBLIC transport whilst your own car is PRIVATE transport. Whilst one person sits on a train complaining it is too cold another will be complaining it's too hot! Everyone's perception of a comfortable temperature is different and its no possible to please everybody.

 

[SS4]

What is right? For me an ambient temperature of 16 is nice but others may find that cold.

That will always be the problem with public transport of course

 

[Class377/5]

Yesterday, I travelled on a FGW HST and it was rather too cold - especially as most people were wearing thin summer clothes to cope with the heat outside. Conversely, in winter, when we have thicker clothing on for outdoor use, the heating is often too high.

Why can't rail companies/staff set the heating to a comfortable level? At least in my own car I have control!

Because a lot of the older fleet it can only be changed in a depot.

As for the example, why do people continue to wear warm clothes inside in the warm then moan about it? When you go around to a friends house that's heated, you take off your layers. You don't sit there and complain that your friends home is too hot. Seems silly at best behaviour.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[Blamethrower]

It's always an argument at work, women like it hot, men like it cold.

However, we should take the lead from New York subways, always ice cold.

You can always put more layers on but you can't take more layers off. Being too hot means irritable sweaty, smelly people which would make the environment even worse.

On a 377 from Bedford, it gets warmer the more people get on, however it's only by the time you get to St. Albans that you notice the blowers are working full blast and eventually it cools down.

Keep it cold, and all will be well

 

[theblackwatch]

As others have said, too many people want a different temperature. I've stewarded railtours before where I've had some passengers saying the coach they're in is too cold, and others in the same carriage saying it's too warm!

 

[northwichcat]

I think some people forget two things when setting temperatures on air-con systems (whether it's on public transport or not):

1. Temperatures given on weather forecasts are largely academic. If you have an exterior temperature of 21oC with little air movement and direct sunlight it'll feel warmer than 21oC, whereas if you set the air-con to 21oC it'll finish up feeling cooler than an exterior 21oC when there's no direct sunlight and a light breeze.

2. People dress differently in summer and winter and are more acclimatised to warm weather in the summer and cool weather in the winter. Therefore having it set to 20oC all year could lead to complaints in the summer about it being too cold, even though people find it acceptable in the winter. However, the difficulty if when to tweak the temperatures.

 

[jonty14]

Were you the only person on the train? Did you canvass the other passengers for their opinion? What you might have considered 'too cold' might have been just right, or too warm for someone else.

So to answer your question "Why can't rail companies/staff set the heating to a comfortable level?", because they have 300+ individuals to deal with.

No need to have a go at Envoy. He only asked a question! It is getting to the point on this forum that when you ask a question you are guaranteed a slagging off!

 

[QueensCurve]

Yesterday, I travelled on a FGW HST and it was rather too cold - especially as most people were wearing thin summer clothes to cope with the heat outside. Conversely, in winter, when we have thicker clothing on for outdoor use, the heating is often too high.

Why can't rail companies/staff set the heating to a comfortable level? At least in my own car I have control!

The British Rail Air Conditioning seems to have been debugged by the time they got to Mk3 but it isn't individually controllable. I used to find it perfect but my late mother always said she felt cold on it.

Modern air conditioning is set to provide a differential from the outside temperature when it differs from the set point and therefore will actually be warmer in Summer than Winter. This generally makes people feel more comfortable.

As an aside, the first BR air conditioned stock was Mk2d. In the early 80s I frequently traveled on the Penzance to Glasgow/Aberdeen where the 1st class coach on the Aberdeen portion was the M14156 BFK on which they never did get the air conditioning right. It used to blow in copious quantities of hot air under the seats whatever the weather. Every now and then it would switch to blow in cold air from the ceiling for a few seconds before reverting to the HOT blast.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm fairly tolerant of temperature conditions within reason for exactly the above - I'm well aware one man's too hot is another man's too cold. That being said, the foodbar coach (H) on East Coast Mk IVs is reliably pretty chilly, must be 18 degrees at most. I usually have to wear an extra layer in that coach whatever the weather, that rarely proves necessary in the other coaches. I almost wonder if they're using the same power rating air conditioning unit for a passenger area half the size.

 

[fowler9]

At the end of the day if you are too cold (And people really do overuse the word freezing) you can put layers on. If you are too hot and are already wearing the minimum number of layers you can, given for example work regulations, you are stuck. It is unfair for people who are "Freezing" to expect everyone else to suffer when they can easily do something about it. A girl where I work has finally been told to put on a cardigan over her vest top and skirt (Us lads have to wear a shirt, tie and trousers).

 

[bramling]

Because a lot of the older fleet it can only be changed in a depot.

As for the example, why do people continue to wear warm clothes inside in the warm then moan about it? When you go around to a friends house that's heated, you take off your layers. You don't sit there and complain that your friends home is too hot. Seems silly at best behaviour.

Much easier just to open a window than mess about removing layers, find somewhere to store them, risk items falling out of pockets, risk leaving something behind, etc.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Because a lot of the older fleet it can only be changed in a depot.

No different on the "ahem" modern fleet. I have no control over the aircon heat settings on a 185 whatsoever. And often find half a carriage working with half defective pumping out hot air and nothing i can do except dish out bottles of water.

At least bombardier got it right with the voyager TMS, can control literally everything with a few taps on a touchscreen!

 

[QueensCurve]

At least bombardier got it right with the voyager TMS, can control literally everything with a few taps on a touchscreen!

I think this is true on the Alsthom Pendolini also.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Much easier just to open a window than mess about removing layers, find somewhere to store them, risk items falling out of pockets, risk leaving something behind, etc.

Umm find the windows on air conditioned stock. Mk3s you can retreat to the vestibules.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[bramling]

Umm find the windows on air conditioned stock. Mk3s you can retreat to the vestibules.

Good reason to go by car then - and no risk of having to suffer a screaming kid for the whole journey either (cf another recent thread)!

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks to all those who have responded thus far. Anyway, I was getting so cold and had not brought along a wool pullover as I would not want to lug that about when outside in the warm air - so I walked through the HST and found that the 'Quiet Coach' was set at a sensible temperature . So, I moved to that coach.

It seems to me that the temperatures are set on the whim of a technician or perhaps on-board staff. Now, you would think that the rail companies would have done research to test the summer & winter temperatures that most people found to be the most agreeable and that the staff would be told to set the thermostats to those temperatures. With different coaches (with air con working) set at different temperatures, this does not seem to be the case.

 

[Class377/5]

Many thanks to all those who have responded thus far. Anyway, I was getting so cold and had not brought along a wool pullover as I would not want to lug that about when outside in the warm air - so I walked through the HST and found that the 'Quiet Coach' was set at a sensible temperature . So, I moved to that coach.

It seems to me that the temperatures are set on the whim of a technician or perhaps on-board staff. Now, you would think that the rail companies would have done research to test the summer & winter temperatures that most people found to be the most agreeable and that the staff would be told to set the thermostats to those temperatures. With different coaches (with air con working) set at different temperatures, this does not seem to be the case.

Well seems to me you didn't bother to the thread so far as there had been some good reasons on what actually happens but you've chosen to ignore them and make a comment I find ill informed and frankly self serving non sense. Nothing on the railways is done a whim but it all has its reasons.

Perhaps listen to the posts that don't suit your agenda which quite frankly from the start was to find fault and not find out why. This is re-enforced by your ignorance over what happens by accusing staff of doing it on purpose (which is what you have put in the part I've highlighted.

That's without your quote bizarre opition that there is one temperature to everyone. Did toy ignore where others have our that simply doesn't? My body doesn't cope well with heat so once your over 15 I am physically uncomfortable, yet i know others that find 20 cold. There simply is no fair temperature for all but a range which depending loading and external weather conditions the trains entire travels the whole day, there is no to have it just right. Hell on a day one side each carriage may require a temperature than those the shaded. Fighter proof of your believe of one temperature a faultly idea at best.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've never been a fan of 185s, but in the last few days I've been very impressed with their air-conditioning system. This on stock with a so-called commuter door layout too! If they (a) were twice as long, and (b) had a couple of tip-up seats in each vestibule, they'd be the best stock of their type on the network.

Working aircon still seems to be something of an issue on Northern 158s, but it seems less-bad than last summer. I've yet to encounter a vehicle with both failed/inactive aircon and the windows sealed, so it seems that traincrew are doing their best under the circumstances.

 

[hassaanhc]

No different on the "ahem" modern fleet. I have no control over the aircon heat settings on a 185 whatsoever. And often find half a carriage working with half defective pumping out hot air and nothing i can do except dish out bottles of water.

At least bombardier got it right with the voyager TMS, can control literally everything with a few taps on a touchscreen!

Same thing with partially working air conditioning has also been the case on Class 171, 377, and 458 units I've travelled on recently. Not found a 450 coach I've travelled in like that yet, but on one unit the guard did announce that one coach was warmer than the rest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yesterday, I travelled on a FGW HST and it was rather too cold - especially as most people were wearing thin summer clothes to cope with the heat outside. Conversely, in winter, when we have thicker clothing on for outdoor use, the heating is often too high.

Why can't rail companies/staff set the heating to a comfortable level? At least in my own car I have control!

The latter is precisely the issue. I like the very cool HSTs, I find the rather over-warm Turbos unbearable (to the point I'll avoid 166s and use 165s, as at least the windows can be sure to be open for a breeze). You differ, I guess. When on a long rail journey (which the HSTs are mainly intended for) I don't care about the outdoor clothes issue, as I remove these before sitting down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Much easier just to open a window than mess about removing layers

Is taking your coat off really that much hassle? Won't you need to do it when you reach your destination.

find somewhere to store them

Try the overhead rack.

risk items falling out of pockets

Just be careful

risk leaving something behind, etc.

Ditto

I have once left a coat on the train (message to self: twit), but the small risk of doing that is far outweighed by the gain in comfort.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems to me that the temperatures are set on the whim of a technician or perhaps on-board staff. Now, you would think that the rail companies would have done research to test the summer & winter temperatures that most people found to be the most agreeable and that the staff would be told to set the thermostats to those temperatures. With different coaches (with air con working) set at different temperatures, this does not seem to be the case.

I understand fGW's policy is/was that the aircon should be set to 21 +/- 2 degrees, regardless of time of year. It just feels warmer in winter if you have more layers on. As to summer, on a hot sweaty day stepping into a fridge is quite pleasant

 

[cjmillsnun]

Well seems to me you didn't bother to the thread so far as there had been some good reasons on what actually happens but you've chosen to ignore them and make a comment I find ill informed and frankly self serving non sense. Nothing on the railways is done a whim but it all has its reasons.

Perhaps listen to the posts that don't suit your agenda which quite frankly from the start was to find fault and not find out why. This is re-enforced by your ignorance over what happens by accusing staff of doing it on purpose (which is what you have put in the part I've highlighted.

That's without your quote bizarre opition that there is one temperature to everyone. Did toy ignore where others have our that simply doesn't? My body doesn't cope well with heat so once your over 15 I am physically uncomfortable, yet i know others that find 20 cold. There simply is no fair temperature for all but a range which depending loading and external weather conditions the trains entire travels the whole day, there is no to have it just right. Hell on a day one side each carriage may require a temperature than those the shaded. Fighter proof of your believe of one temperature a faultly idea at best.

The other point being that even if the thermostats are set the same, coach to coach, you may well find that one system is more efficient than another, resulting in different temperatures between coaches.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I understand fGW's policy is/was that the aircon should be set to 21 +/- 2 degrees, regardless of time of year. It just feels warmer in winter if you have more layers on. As to summer, on a hot sweaty day stepping into a fridge is quite pleasant

21 degrees should be a comfortable shirt sleeves temperature (for most people - offices are normally set near this temperature). I usually set my car at 19.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

21 degrees should be a comfortable shirt sleeves temperature. I usually set my car at 19.

Right now it is 27.7°C in my study and I have on:

*a vest
*a shirt
*a long sleeve T shirt ( not a sweatshirt - T shirt material but long sleeves )

...and the windows are closed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Right now it is 27.7°C in my study and I have on:

*a vest
*a shirt
*a long sleeve T shirt ( not a sweatshirt - T shirt material but long sleeves )

...and the windows are closed.

I would find that unbearable. It is 25 degrees in my lounge at present. I have the back door open and am wearing a T-shirt and shorts and no shoes or socks. I am bordering on uncomfortably hot. If I closed the door and put on what you have on, I would probably end up feeling quite ill.

I can just about deal with very hot places but only with a bit of moving air.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Right now it is 27.7°C in my study and I have on:

*a vest
*a shirt
*a long sleeve T shirt ( not a sweatshirt - T shirt material but long sleeves )

...and the windows are closed.

Have clarified my post.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would find that unbearable. It is 25 degrees in my lounge at present. I have the back door open and am wearing a T-shirt and shorts and no shoes or socks. I am bordering on uncomfortably hot. If I closed the door and put on what you have on, I would probably end up feeling quite ill.

I can just about deal with very hot places but only with a bit of moving air.

All I'm doing is underlining the fact that everyone is different - generally it needs to be around 29°C / 30°C before I'll remove the T shirt...

At the opposite extreme I know at least two people who wear short sleeves in the middle of winter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All I'm doing is underlining the fact that everyone is different - generally it needs to be around 29°C / 30°C before I'll remove the T shirt...

At the opposite extreme I know at least two people who wear short sleeves in the middle of winter.

That'll be me then. I also sleep with the window open all year round regardless of weather.

One key point, though - if the train temperature is a bit cold, you can always wear your coat. People might object if I stripped off fully, 'tis not a pretty sight

Other than that, the only solutions are compartments with individual controls (not practical) or us both using a motor car instead.

 

[SS4]

All I'm doing is underlining the fact that everyone is different - generally it needs to be around 29°C / 30°C before I'll remove the T shirt...

At the opposite extreme I know at least two people who wear short sleeves in the middle of winter.

I'm one of those people, it amazed me on Friday afternoon when none of the windows on the bus were open and I got up at 6am yesterday to get shopping done before the sun came up.

That'll be me then. I also sleep with the window open all year round regardless of weather.

One key point, though - if the train temperature is a bit cold, you can always wear your coat. People might object if I stripped off fully, 'tis not a pretty sight

Other than that, the only solutions are compartments with individual controls (not practical) or us both using a motor car instead.

That last comment made me think about having a heat gradient throughout the train with one end hot and the other positively cold (you can let thermodynamics do some of the work). Totally impractical but quite funny since my mind's eye used a heat sensitive camera.

On the bright side if the temperature was comfortable one could use it to store the ciders to keep them cool