Not far something you've just made up that works acceptably currently.
Then, you've fundamentally failed to understand the purpose of CrossCountry. Leeds - Edinburgh and Leeds - Bristol are top priority flows.
Yes, it's funny how almost every proposal involves ripping apart the CrossCountry network to the extent that major cities have worse links than they did in grouping days. The whole point of XC as a BR business unit was to open up these direct journey opportunities between provincial towns and cities. That is the core remit of CrossCountry, not just Bristol - Sheffield. I accept that direct trains from everywhere to everywhere are not a sensible proposition, but can it really be said that Leeds-Scotland or Leeds-Birmingham or Leeds-Derby are not worthy of direct services, especially given the proven demand despite unreliability and overcrowding suppressing demand?
Yeah ripping up doesn't work in my book
What that does not show is how much extra time might have been last going into Reading (or had been lost north of Basingstoke - which was then recovered)
Yes, changing in and crossing London would certainly be a challenge that many disabled people would not even consider. Withdrawing long distance routes would take accessibility and socially inclusion back decades.
This is true
There’s nothing wrong with XC serving Cornwall other than the times they’ve chosen to do so are terrible. Arriving in Cornwall at 2100-2200 for a holiday Is just daft. If they had an arrival mid afternoon like they always used to then they would definitely be much busier.
They still do on Sundays. On working days I doubt there's a unit available to spend nearly five hours going to Penzance and return. An extra Penzance service on Saturday or bank holiday might work well in theory but I don't know if it would be more practical. A five car may also be quite crowded leaving Plymouth.
Even if there was, GWR now run half hourly through Cornwall so there isn't even a sensible gap in the timetable for XC.
The current Penzance runs are generally in marginal time - they'd be sat in the depot otherwise. Same with the Aberdeen runs. Getting rid of them wouldn't really save any units, hence why they've been kept. Something which arrives in Cornwall at a more sensible time, on the other hand, would increase the unit requirement.
Precisely my point to replace a path.
They do, they're all still there, they just start back from elsewhere.
Again this would lead to two platforms being needed instead of one at Birmingham New Street, as it pointed out every time this is discussed. It would also be very commercially detrimental because of the longer journey times, and you'd run out of capacity on Manchester - London with the remaining two express services.
You call it laughable having to change at York onto an overcrowded LNER service. Well surely the XC stuff now from Leeds is pretty overcrowded, so frankly changing at the lovely York station onto a 9 car LNER service or even changing at Leeds onto a TPE service if travelling as far as Newcastle really is no great hardship. And if that leads to people not needing to stand from Birmingham to Plymouth ,or Birmingham to Reading due to the released 4 voyager units, then it is money well spent. There is a real over provision of services in my view around Yorkshire heading for Scotland. People like to have a train carriage where no one is sat within about 20 seats of them, but in reality, how sustainable is this? It's hardly being selfish arguing Leeds could lose direct trains to Edinburgh. Unlike people in Yorkshire, people in the south don't really have a viable alternative to XC, it isn't being selfish in arguing that Yorkshire has an over provision of trains northbound compared with the Midlands southbound.
So, transferring a load of people from an overcrowded XC to an overcrowded LNER will solve everyone’s problems? You’ll just drive people away from the railway altogether.
There are 3tph from York to Scotland only 1 of which serves the major regional centres of Sheffield and Leeds. All three services are very busy all day. This is hardly over provision, it is demand driven.
I find it hard to believe that when Birmingham to the South west, or Birmingham to the South Coast are only worthy of ONE, yes ONE (often 4 coach ) train per hour, that continuing to provide Yorkshire with 3 , yes 3 trains per hour to Scotland is efficient use of resources. I am very much in favour of a more combined fleet UK wide, where stock could be used where it is actually needed, irrelevant of the livery on the side of the train. Much of the traffic through Yorkshire to Edinburgh is from London, Yorkshire just happens to be in between. I just don't think the current situation is the best deployment of resources when viewed from a national perspective. If cutting out York to Edinburgh meant that Plymouth to York and Manchester to Borunemouth, going forward could be 8 or 9 cars consistently, then a far greater number of people would be better off.
Ok if it’s a race to the bottom that you evidently want then maybe instead of cutting XC from West Yorkshire to Scotland maybe don’t stop 1 LNER per hour at York instead freeing up space on all those services and still having the West Yorkshire to Scotland link that you so obviously think isn’t required (please look at a quail map as you obviously think there’s only 1 railway line through Yorkshire).
Could you point me to any public data which shows loading by operator for these flows, please?
The trouble is , with everything you suggest, it's all pie in the sky. In an era when train drivers have gone 5 years without a payrise and the Western region infrastructure is literally falling apart by the day, there just isn't the money to buy new fleets (which is what's needed to remedy XC). In an ideal world, of course XC would be allowed a proper fleet, but, for one reason or another it has been decreed that XC must make do with insufficient capacity, and as a result pragmatism is needed. Trust me, I don't want to see no XC north of York, but of the 4 parts of the XC "X", this is the only part that does have additional travel options and decent capacity. The other 3 simply don't, and something needs to be done.
That is a difference in pricing basis. Leeds to Edinburgh is priced by LNER, and works out at £128 return. Exeter to Birmingham is £120 return. At some point, if the LNER fares trial is deemed to be a success, it is likely there won't be off-peak singles or returns on either route, and pricing will be demand based. Then, that will show up whether capacity meets demand.
If you can’t find it I certainly won’t. It’s personal observation through commuting at different times of day and leisure trips at other times. It’s not for me to prove what I experience on my local line but for others to disprove what I experience. The fact is the trains are busy and throwing a Voyagers worth of passengers onto the busy LNER trains would suppress demand so not for the greater good as suggested.Could you point me to any public data which shows loading by operator for these flows, please?
I've found Crowding (PiXC) for train operators, by city and central London station (RAI0214) in the statistical data, but I can't reconcile it with the stories on here of loading throughout the day.
Rail passenger numbers and crowding on weekdays data tables RAI02
Data on rail passenger numbers, crowding and capacity, produced by the Department for Transport.www.gov.uk
So you don’t know about XC receiving 12 additional units? You said 4 released from the north of York would do so these extra 12 are a triplicate improvement without losing north of York.
So essentially you still need new trains so why not just order new trains for XC and continue things as they are which would result in less people having to change, and a bit of increased capacity for XC.
If those 12 units mean everything on the BoM to Manchester and Plymouth to Edinburgh becomes a double set then great, problem solved. But I fear these sets will be swallowed up by lightly used reintroduced services like York to Reading or Bristol to Manchester. I hope I'm wrong, and the days of a 4 car voyager turning up at Bristol full and standing West Country bound will be gone, but I will believe it when I see it.
TfW don't serve Cardiff to Birmingham though, which is an important flow.
