Why are trainspotters being treated like terriorists?

[Metroland]

Well it is simply impossible to protect every soft target and railway stations and airports are just one of many.

You could equally make the case that someone that visits a supermarket regularly, football match or shopping centre might be plotting to blow themselves up. You could equally argue that people that take regular walks in field where critical infrastructure like pipelines and pylons are present, represent a hazard. If its loss of life you are worried about, you have a far greater chance of being hit by a truck than being killed in a terrorist event, or of being affected by pollution from factories or cars. But nobody seriously considers banning those.

It is paranoia from the establishment, whipped up by the media. The restrictions are completely disproportionate to the threat posed by a very small minority of extremists. Just accept that we cannot have one ideology, no accidents, no deaths, no destruction and there are some problems than cannot be solved. Human beings just are just not clever. We should do what is *reasonable* to prevent these things, but there comes a point where prevention is disproportional, isolated and unreasonable. Everything should always be seen in context.

 

[richa2002]

Well it is simply impossible to protect every soft target and railway stations and airports are just one of many.

You could equally make the case that someone that visits a supermarket regularly, football match or shopping centre might be plotting to blow themselves up. You could equally argue that people that take regular walks in field where critical infrastructure like pipelines and pylons are present, represent a hazard. If its loss of life you are worried about, you have a far greater chance of being hit by a truck than being killed in a terrorist event, or of being affected by pollution from factories or cars. But nobody seriously considers banning those.

It is paranoia from the establishment, whipped up by the media. The restrictions are completely disproportionate to the threat posed by a very small minority of extremists. Just accept that we cannot have one ideology, no accidents, no deaths, no destruction and there are some problems than cannot be solved. Human beings just are just not clever. We should do what is *reasonable* to prevent these things, but there comes a point where prevention is disproportional, isolated and unreasonable. Everything should always be seen in context.

Excellent post.

 

[anthony263]

well it seems its not just train spotters being harrased by the police, according to posts on a bus group, a few bus spotters took some shots of a london double decker bus that had an argument with mc donalds restaurant and were to to stop by a community support officer.

lucky for them a memeber of the press came up and said that it was illegal to take picture/videos of a crime scene although it hadnt been desinated a crime scene as it had been ruled what had happened.


the link about this should be on the bbc website

it makes me wonder about the police, seems half of them dont understand the law they are supposed to be enforcing

 

[FusionRail]

well it seems its not just train spotters being harrased by the police, according to posts on a bus group, a few bus spotters took some shots of a london double decker bus that had an argument with mc donalds restaurant and were to to stop by a community support officer.

lucky for them a memeber of the press came up and said that it was illegal to take picture/videos of a crime scene although it hadnt been desinated a crime scene as it had been ruled what had happened.


the link about this should be on the bbc website

it makes me wonder about the police, seems half of them dont understand the law they are supposed to be enforcing

But the argument may stand: why spot buses?

 

[anthony263]

Its the same with spotting trains, I do both, so i class myself as a transport enthusiast. I havnt had any problems when taking pictures, the only thing i avoid doing is taking photos of schoolbuses etc if the kids are on them or nearby.

there are a lot of people who like buses just as much as thos who like trains or aircraft etc, so as long as it isnt illegal then i see nothing wromg with taking pictures, as long as anyone doesnt use a flash.

 

[90019]

This could easily have been a rail station, only ~18 months ago...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm

Ah yes, the tesco value terrorist attack.

Seriously, they'd been watching too many movies.
Their idea of a good bomb was petrol and butane.
Now, firstly, neither of these are explosive, they're only flammable, unless in an enclosed space (the exhaust gases can't escape and the container explodes).
Next, for some strange reason, the people who make butane tanks thought it would be a good idea to add saftey features to it, so, if you manage to ignite the gas inside it (which isn't easy to do anyway) it'll either explode, breaking along a deliberately weakened line, sending all the force out upwards, burn though a saftey valve and sit there burning, or, in the worst case, burn off the valve and shoot off like a bottle rocket
Not to mention that they got the wrong door anyway

And yet people still take these morons seriously? :???:

 

[nedchester]

Well it is simply impossible to protect every soft target and railway stations and airports are just one of many.

You could equally make the case that someone that visits a supermarket regularly, football match or shopping centre might be plotting to blow themselves up. You could equally argue that people that take regular walks in field where critical infrastructure like pipelines and pylons are present, represent a hazard. If its loss of life you are worried about, you have a far greater chance of being hit by a truck than being killed in a terrorist event, or of being affected by pollution from factories or cars. But nobody seriously considers banning those.

It is paranoia from the establishment, whipped up by the media. The restrictions are completely disproportionate to the threat posed by a very small minority of extremists. Just accept that we cannot have one ideology, no accidents, no deaths, no destruction and there are some problems than cannot be solved. Human beings just are just not clever. We should do what is *reasonable* to prevent these things, but there comes a point where prevention is disproportional, isolated and unreasonable. Everything should always be seen in context.

Agree totally.

By the way where was all the 'security theatre' in the late 70s/early 80s when the IRA were blowing up places here there and everywhere?

 

[34067James]

What the hell is happening in this country?

I think thats a good idea I rather be happy in london knowing that there is no knifes on the train due to a police search then a train with a gang off yobs with knifes.

James

 

[nedchester]

I think thats a good idea I rather be happy in london knowing that there is no knifes on the train due to a police search then a train with a gang off yobs with knifes.

James

And like many in this country you are sleepwalking into a police state where the police can do what the hell they like, but don't worry it's all for your safety............


(I think the police would have due cause to search a 'gang of yobs')

 

[Guinness]

(I think the police would have due cause to search a 'gang of yobs')

Oh no, that's far too risky. They might have to do a 4 page Risk Assessment on whether or not they carry knives before even attempting to confront them!

Instead they shall spend 15 minutes of wasting a photographers time at the end of London Bridge..

 

[Mintona]

Who cares about a police state if we are safe?

 

[Metroland]

Police state

• noun a totalitarian state in which political police secretly supervise and control citizens’ activities.

The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic.

Sounds lovely: Where they exists, they'd shut this forum down for a start. If you started slagging off state officials you would probably disappear for a torture session. This is exactly what happens in places like China. You are very, very privileged to live in a free country, your rights fought for over centuries and two world wars.

 

[Mintona]

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Aussie_Rail]

Sometimes you wonder if living in a Police state would be a good thing, people would be safer, less crime, no bogna dero's roaming the streets of a night time it might actually be quite nice and there'll always be work if your a Policeman or work in public service.


AR

 

[anthony263]

I would not like to live in a plice state. who cares about the porblems with people carrying knives etc, its been happening for years and has only started getting attention from the press because of a few parent whyning about how their kids were nice, i believe some of them, but if the kids are in a gang they they should know the risk they are taking and maybe the parents should keep a closer eye on them.

so personally, if the police started to try to restricte people freedoms to move about etc then they may find this country disending into civil war/unrest and i know a lot of people in teh millitary wouldnt be too pleased with the government either.

 

[FusionRail]

I would not like to live in a plice state. who cares about the porblems with people carrying knives etc

I think the people who care about the problem of people carrying knives are the people who have been stabbed, seriously injured, murdered, their families, their friends, the NHS staff who have to deal the with injury, fight for their life, and then suffer another loss when the victim dies.

i believe some of them, but if the kids are in a gang they they should know the risk they are taking and maybe the parents should keep a closer eye on them.

How can the parents keep a closer eye on them? You cant follow your kids around all day, unless your suggesting you may be a paedophile. Maybe the kids didnt realise what the gang was about.

Maybe, Anthony, it was just an innocent young boy walking down the street on the way home from a nice day at school, going home to have the nice dinner his mum just cooked for him, when some idiots jump out, and stab him. So now tell me how that was his/the parents fault.

This knife culture in the present situation, is reletively new. Maybe knives have been around before jesus was born, but its todays stupid attitudes that take the biscuit.

 

[Metroland]

The knife culture should be dealt with at the parenting and education level. Carrying a knife is illegal, and if you are caught you are likely to be arrested and charged, followed by being tried in a court.

In a police state, you are likely to be arrested, beaten up round the back of the police station whether you are guilty or not, probably have no trial or an unfair one, and the key thrown away in some cases.

The people that think a police state is a good idea, make the mistake they have done no wrong or enjoy the rights they have now. Police states are corrupt, you just have to upset someone.

For example, Mintona, you recently argued you didn't want to work on Christmas day. In a police state, not only is Christmas likely to be banned, but you would do as you were told, for whatever pay and conditions that are imposed (unions and worker representation tend to be banned).

This forum would certainly be shut down, given the amount of criticism against state officials. And one or two might be arrested for their views and tortured. So those that think a police state is a good idea, should either think again, or try living in one for a while.

 

[anthony263]

i apoligise if i have offended some people, I am all for the various iniatives to reduce knife crime.

before i start there are a lot of good parents, what i was trying to say was that one of the best ways to help reduce knife crime, is for better education not just for the kids themselves, but i believe a lot of the parents should also have better education, i have seen some kids in my local area especially running around drinking late at night and their parents dont really seem to care, so maybe the police should do soemthing with the parents a lot of whoom dont seem to have any control over their kids or in fact are just as bad, i have heard of parents actually egging their kids on in fights so its no wonder this country is going downhill, its about time the government got off their backsides and did something that works!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Metroland, i fully agreee with your views, what u said was exactly right and that was what i was rtying to get at in my previous posts.

 

[richa2002]

The knife culture should be dealt with at the parenting and education level. Carrying a knife is illegal, and if you are caught you are likely to be arrested and charged, followed by being tried in a court.

In a police state, you are likely to be arrested, beaten up round the back of the police station whether you are guilty or not, probably have no trial or an unfair one, and the key thrown away in some cases.

The people that think a police state is a good idea, make the mistake they have done no wrong or enjoy the rights they have now. Police states are corrupt, you just have to upset someone.

For example, Mintona, you recently argued you didn't want to work on Christmas day. In a police state, not only is Christmas likely to be banned, but you would do as you were told, for whatever pay and conditions that are imposed (unions and worker representation tend to be banned).

This forum would certainly be shut down, given the amount of criticism against state officials. And one or two might be arrested for their views and tortured. So those that think a police state is a good idea, should either think again, or try living in one for a while.

Bang on. It shows complete and utter ignorance to be in favour of a police state.

 

[Metroland]

Well I say we live in a free country, only just. Will the next generation give it away? There has already been extensive corporatism, erosion of rights, no real electoral choice, and a virtual dictatorship through an unelected leader - you only look how Heathrow was decided, parliament was ignored, half the cabinet and corporations who are tied up with government departments wrote the rules together. (Not my opinion, very well documented). Clearly some people are convinced a police state is a good idea -maybe aided and abetted by the tabloid press who seem to have a large portion of the populace in a consensus trance. People should be dealing with society's ills through personal and social responsibility IMHO.

Who would have believed it from the home of parliamentary democracy, free trade capitalism, trade unionism, the country that abolished slavery and gave women the vote Britain is rated an endemic surveillance society similar to Russia and China - the worst in the EU?

 

[Mintona]

I'm not bothered about working Christmas if it doesn't exist. But whilst it does exist, I want to spend time with my family.

 

[John_158]

They pick on Train Entusiasts But what about theese people with giant suit cases and theese people whom dump there suit cases in the bike space on the train then move to another part of the train.

 

[Pumbaa]

They pick on Train Entusiasts But what about theese people with giant suit cases and theese people whom dump there suit cases in the bike space on the train then move to another part of the train.

Oh sorry - I forgot we aren't allowed to have suitcases on rail services.

This usually happens because there's no space left. And if I'm honest, the average enthusiast is a little more annoying to rail staff than the average immobile suitcase which doesn't take pictures of anything with a yellow front.

 

[90019]

And if I'm honest, the average enthusiast is a little more annoying to rail staff than the average immobile suitcase which doesn't take pictures of anything with a yellow front.

Surely that makes it more annoying if it takes photos of everything that doesnt have a yellow front, including CCTV cameras?

 

[ungreat]

Well I say we live in a free country, only just. Will the next generation give it away? There has already been extensive corporatism, erosion of rights, no real electoral choice, and a virtual dictatorship through an unelected leader - you only look how Heathrow was decided, parliament was ignored, half the cabinet and corporations who are tied up with government departments wrote the rules together. (Not my opinion, very well documented). Clearly some people are convinced a police state is a good idea -maybe aided and abetted by the tabloid press who seem to have a large portion of the populace in a consensus trance. People should be dealing with society's ills through personal and social responsibility IMHO.

Who would have believed it from the home of parliamentary democracy, free trade capitalism, trade unionism, the country that abolished slavery and gave women the vote Britain is rated an endemic surveillance society similar to Russia and China - the worst in the EU?

Vote communist,expect communism...I will never vote Labour again,bunch of ****ers with nothing better to do than lie to us..oh hang on,aint that ALL the political parties!!

If voting changed anything,it would be outlawed..Mugabe springs to mind

I forget who,but someone once said" There will be no peace on Earth until the last Holy man is hung on the last politician's entrails"...how true

And Lilloaf...by god you are one arrogant self centred single minded dogmatic naive stupid little child...grow up,and soon.From a flash distracted train driver...

 

[anthony263]

I had a run in with a jobsworth at Moorgate underground station yesterday, stupid woman said i wasnt allowed to photograph trains.

she certainly didnt like it when i said that i could, finally shut up after 1 of her colegues said that i could continue as long s i wasnt using flash which i wasnt.

i have sent a angry email to TFL so i may get a reply from them soon hopfully

 

[Zamracene749]

This should have those that advocate a police state cheering-

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=836675

What next- thought crime?

 

[GNERman]

Excuse me ungreat I would take that back if I were you as my uncle is a labour MP!

 

[anthony263]

Its about time a lot of people got off their backsides in this country and get the guts to stand up to the police and these stupid jobsworths etc.

if a police officer does decide to have a go at me then they will find themselves having a major argument on their hands, besides i have threatened a jobsworth before at cardiff bus stn while i was there on my lunch brake after driving a bus from Barry.

what will it atke to get a point across, do the police seriously expect some bus & rail enthusiasts to start getting nasty with the police.

i know that 1 driver at the company i used to work for got into trouble after threatening to run a police officer down with a bus, which i have to admit i quite agree with.

 

[ungreat]

Excuse me ungreat I would take that back if I were you as my uncle is a labour MP!

Why? I meant it.And its true.Dictatorship hell bent on total control.

Your post sounds like a threat.......duly copied to my records for future reference if neccessary!