Why are some stations designated as 'request' stops?

[mmh]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...f-only-if-no-one-has-a-ticket-to-them.236428/

I have asked on here before what the point of request stops are, and nobody has explained it to me. My local station is a request stop, as is the station in the town I work in. What is the point of them?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well no, it wouldn't because by their nature request stops are unlikely to have any facility to make reservations, or any other facilities.

I have asked on here before what the point of request stops are, and nobody has explained it to me. My local station is a request stop, as is the station in the town I work in. What is the point of them?

The point of them is that when you have a route with a string of them (e.g. the Far North or Conwy Valley) where you wouldn't expect someone to use all of them on a given service, you can have a slightly faster timetable based on the average number you expect to be used on a given run.

Unless you have a station that is barely used at all (Scotscalder, Forsinard, Altnabreac for instance) there isn't a lot of point in having one on its own.

 

[43066]

I have asked on here before what the point of request stops are, and nobody has explained it to me. My local station is a request stop, as is the station in the town I work in. What is the point of them?

Logically they’re a sensible half way house between closure, but also not building the timetable around always stopping services somewhere that has sporadic and limited use.

They’re also a better option for usability than the parliamentary service scenario of having a tiny number of services being booked to call and the rest skipping.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Logically they’re a sensible half way house between closure, but also not building the timetable around always stopping services somewhere that has sporadic and limited use.

They’re also a better option for usability than the parliamentary service scenario of having a tiny number of services being booked to call and the rest skipping.

Or where the full service is very sparse anyway, again e.g. the Far North, though there is now an express run each way (I think) that misses them. Wouldn't work on e.g. the S&C as you usually get at least one at each.

 

[mmh]

The point of them is that when you have a route with a string of them (e.g. the Far North or Conwy Valley) where you wouldn't expect someone to use all of them on a given service, you can have a slightly faster timetable based on the average number you expect to be used on a given run.

Unless you have a station that is barely used at all (Scotscalder, Forsinard, Altnabreac for instance) there isn't a lot of point in having one on its own.

But you can't. You can't predict how many you'll have to stop at, so the end to end timetable has to be able to accommodate potential stops at all of them. There are numerous people on here who will say timetables are sacrosanct. Why is it different if you happen to live in a more rural area? It isn't.

 

[43066]

But you can't. You can't predict how many you'll have to stop at, so the end to end timetable has to be able to accommodate potential stops at all of them. There are numerous people on here who will say timetables are sacrosanct. Why is it different if you happen to live in a more rural area? It isn't.

Presumably you’d do it on an average basis. If a train stopped at all of them it would end up running late, but that would hardly ever happen.

That’s better than closure, also better than one train per week always stopping with the rest always passing.

 

[Watershed]

I have asked on here before what the point of request stops are, and nobody has explained it to me. My local station is a request stop, as is the station in the town I work in. What is the point of them?

The point is that if nobody requests the stop, you avoid the engine and brake wear (as well as fuel and pollution) associated with coming to a complete stop. Even accelerating from 20mph is a lot better than doing so from 0mph. Obviously not having to slow down at all is best of all, hence ScotRail's trial of a stop request kiosk.

Plus you also avoid the risk associated with the dispatch procedure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you can't. You can't predict how many you'll have to stop at, so the end to end timetable has to be able to accommodate potential stops at all of them. There are numerous people on here who will say timetables are sacrosanct. Why is it different if you happen to live in a more rural area? It isn't.

It is different when pathing is less fraught, though. The Conwy Valley train arriving at Blaenau 2 minutes late isn't going to knacker anything, for instance, and even the Coast line isn't exactly intensively worked.

 

[mmh]

The point is that if nobody requests the stop, you avoid the engine and brake wear (as well as fuel and pollution) associated with coming to a complete stop. Even accelerating from 20mph is a lot better than doing so from 0mph. Obviously not having to slow down at all is best of all, hence ScotRail's trial of a stop request kiosk.

Plus you also avoid the risk associated with the dispatch procedure.

This is surely nonsense. The driver needs to slow enough to be able to stop. I don't think request stops were introduced as an environmental measure, they long pre-date all that stuff.

Dispatch procedure cannot be the reason for them either. There are many, many unmanned stations that are compulsory stops, and manned stations where the train staff depart themselves.

As before, nobody seems to be able to explain why we have request stops.

 

[mmh]

It is different when pathing is less fraught, though. The Conwy Valley train arriving at Blaenau 2 minutes late isn't going to knacker anything, for instance, and even the Coast line isn't exactly intensively worked.

Well, not with the usual 15 minute wait at Junction on the Blaenau train, when they bother running it. How do you explain all the stations between Junction and Holyhead? The train will depart Holyhead on its return whenever it's timetabled to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, not with the usual 15 minute wait at Junction on the Blaenau train, when they bother running it. How do you explain all the stations between Junction and Holyhead? The train will depart Holyhead on its return whenever it's timetabled to.

As I said before, it allows a tighter timetable based on averages.

I don't however get why Conwy remains one, as it is now quite busy.

 

[Watershed]

This is surely nonsense. The driver needs to slow enough to be able to stop. I don't think request stops were introduced as an environmental measure, they long pre-date all that stuff.

Dispatch procedure cannot be the reason for them either. There are many, many unmanned stations that are compulsory stops, and manned stations where the train staff depart themselves.

As before, nobody seems to be able to explain why we have request stops.

They were first introduced by BR for the first couple of reasons I stated - i.e. the fact that they saved money and made what would otherwise be unviable stations into just-about viable ones. The question was whether the average fare revenue would cover the direct, "cash" cost of having the train slow down.

They have been kept because the original reasoning still holds true at many stations, and because there are now additional reasons to make a very quiet station a request stop.

Once request stops start becoming busier, there is little sense in keeping them. If what you're alluding to is that Conwy shouldn't be a request stop - then yes, I agree entirely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once request stops start becoming busier, there is little sense in keeping them.

Indeed. And that's why request stops on the S&C don't make a lot of sense - there is almost always at least one passenger at most stations. By contrast, a passenger at Altnabreac is perhaps a weekly thing!

If what you're alluding to is that Conwy shouldn't be a request stop - no, it shouldn't be.

Indeed. But Llanfairfechan, Penmaenmawr, Valley/Y Fali/Dyffryn*, Ty Croes, Rhosneigr and Bodorgan are pretty quiet, and so I can see the sense in making those request stops and timetabling to perhaps normally serve half of them, but effectively the passengers decide which it is!

Llanfairpwll is a request stop as well but is busier than the others so I would say there is probably no sense in that, like Conwy.

* Nobody, not even the signs, seem to agree what it's called

 

[43066]

As before, nobody seems to be able to explain why we have request stops.

It has been clearly explained more than once by several posters.

 

[30907]

This is surely nonsense. The driver needs to slow enough to be able to stop.

Once again, being able to stop is different from actually stopping, and reduces operating costs as well as allowing a modest acceleration.

Admittedly, the more recent trend has been to withdraw stops altogether except when there is a specific demand - look at the Skegness line for example.

 

[dciuk]

Llanfairpwll is a request stop as well but is busier than the others so I would say there is probably no sense in that, like Conwy.

Perhaps someone thought they would make it difficult for non welsh speaking passengers to have to ask the guard to stop the train there!