Why are heritage railways so inconsistent?

[tbtc]

What next? Anyone wanting to run locomotives in sectorisation-era BR should be forced to tear down their old Victorian station buildings and replace them with bus shelters, to get the full authentic rubbishness?

 

[43066]

Don't assume too much. I recall a young parent saying to her two year old ''look that's a real old carriage door". You don't have to be a gricer/foamer to recognise the genuine article (Ashford 1911).

Okay, they will obviously expect old style slam door carriages, but that purpose will be equally served by post war mk1s, or the much older four wheeled Victorian compartment stock in use in various places.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t do their best to be authentic, but it’s a fallacy to imagine that the public will care whether the coaches are green, brown or maroon.

 

[Alanko]

Okay, they will obviously expect old style slam door carriages, but that purpose will be equally served by post war mk1s, or the much older four wheeled Victorian compartment stock in use in various places.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t do their best to be authentic, but it’s a fallacy to imagine that the public will care whether the coaches are green, brown or maroon.

I don't think they care about the precise livery, but blue/grey will jog too many memories and probably doesn't look old enough when combined with a steam loco, even to the casual observer.

 

[SeanG]

I don't think they care about the precise livery, but blue/grey will jog too many memories and probably doesn't look old enough when combined with a steam loco, even to the casual observer.

Does it not evoke memories of steam tours in the 80s though...

In essence a heritage/preserved railway is a big trainset come tourist attraction. Of course as an enthusiast I would prefer things to be historically accurate, run with appropriate stock etc., but that doesn't pay the bills so isn't realistic. I'm happy to just see things running at all.
You have to remember that the majority of folk nowadays only remember steam in preservation and therefore running with mismatched coaches etc.

 

[43066]

I don't think they care about the precise livery, but blue/grey will jog too many memories and probably doesn't look old enough when combined with a steam loco, even to the casual observer.

Yes indeed. Liveries like “Blue and dirt”, or NSE toothpaste are too recent for steam.

This is why coaches tend to be generic green and red; simply because it’s so flexible. An NSE liveried 50 can pull a maroon rake, but a steam loco pulling NSE liveried coaches would certainly look rather strange.

 

[sprinterguy]

What next? Anyone wanting to run locomotives in sectorisation-era BR should be forced to tear down their old Victorian station buildings and replace them with bus shelters, to get the full authentic rubbishness?

I've expressed an opinion before wondering whether there'd be a market for recreating the experience of the late seventies "wilderness years" of provincial BR: Run down stations, ticket offices closed at random, surly, unco-operative or just plain absent staff, tatty stock, regular delays and cancellations communicated in only the vaguest terms if at all, a trainload of passengers shoehorned into a substitute 2-car DMU.

I suspect it might not attract much repeat custom, but except for the surly staff and run down stations I have encountered all of the above on preserved railways in recent years.

Yes indeed. Liveries like “Blue and dirt”, or NSE toothpaste are too recent for steam.

This is why coaches tend to be generic green and red; simply because it’s so flexible. An NSE liveried 50 can pull a maroon rake, but a steam loco pulling NSE liveried coaches would certainly look rather strange.

It's pretty incongruous: There wasn't much Maroon liveried railtour stock during the final days of the class 50s in the early nineties: 50 tours during this time, when the locos carried NSE livery in mainline service, typically used Intercity or NSE liveried stock. Though not completely unknown, admittedly:

50033 & 50007 Church Fenton 7 November 1992

And I note there's one maroon liveried vehicle in the middle of the Pilkington's K set pictured here in 1993:

50033, D400 & 50007 Lickey Incline 5 June 1993

Perhaps a preserved railway should recreate the Pilkington's K liveried set: Ideal for the varied traction present at diesel galas, and it'd be entirely prototypical to run it with steam as well!

In all seriousness though, I do recognise that steam operations are the bread and butter of the majority of preserved lines in this country, whereas an NSE liveried 50 might only get a few Saturday outings a year, so coaching stock liveries are naturally going to be inclined towards the former (and for the various practical reasons of livery application, etc, outlined in other posts as well).

 

[DarloRich]

here are some pics of the Northampton & Lamport Railway. They are a very short line but working hard to extend. I am not sure what else they can do stock wise other than getting their Mkiii's running with an industrial steamer to really create froth!

Northampton and Lamport Railway

Explore this photo album by MKDarlo (Richard) on Flickr!

flic.kr

 

[Dave W]

here are some pics of the Northampton & Lamport Railway. They are a very short line but working hard to extend. I am not sure what else they can do stock wise other than getting their Mkiii's running with an industrial steamer to really create froth!

Northampton and Lamport Railway

Explore this photo album by MKDarlo (Richard) on Flickr!

flic.kr

Northampton and Lamport Railway

31289 was built in 1961 by Brush Engineering, Loughborough, as part of an order generated by the modernisation plan of 1955. Originally built with a Mirrlees JVS12T 1,250 bhp (930 kW) engine, it was re-engined by BR with an English Electric 12SVT engine, capable of producing 1470 bhp (1,100 kW)...

www.flickr.com

Why did they let that child in the modern puffer jacket and trainers in!? That's not consistent with the stock!

 

[D6130]

here are some pics of the Northampton & Lamport Railway. They are a very short line but working hard to extend. I am not sure what else they can do stock wise other than getting their Mkiii's running with an industrial steamer to really create froth!

Nice photos! Do they still have a class 27 loco?

 

[DarloRich]

Why did they let that child in the modern puffer jacket and trainers in!? That's not consistent with the stock!

absolutely - i had to catch rickets just to visit

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2023 ==

Nice photos! Do they still have a class 27 loco?

thanks - not that I saw.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2023 ==

 

[Intercity110]

Nice photos! Do they still have a class 27 loco?

No.

 

[sprinterguy]

The East Lancs Railway has a set of maroon and a set of blue/grey mk1s and they generally seem to match them up to the steam/diesel services

It's one of my favourite things about the East Lancs: Works particularly well at their diesel galas with a majority of green or blue locos for a more immersive experience.

 

[Iskra]

I've expressed an opinion before wondering whether there'd be a market for recreating the experience of the late seventies "wilderness years" of provincial BR: Run down stations, ticket offices closed at random, surly, unco-operative or just plain absent staff, tatty stock, regular delays and cancellations communicated in only the vaguest terms if at all, a trainload of passengers shoehorned into a substitute 2-car DMU.

I suspect it might not attract much repeat custom, but except for the surly staff and run down stations I have encountered all of the above on preserved railways in recent years.

There is a station on Peak Rail that reflects that which I quite like. Very authentic.



On the topic of the thread; one person’s inconsistency is another person’s diversity. It would be a bit boring if all the heritage railways offered the exact same uniform experience. You’d have no specific reason to travel to different ones. Some liveries are rare, region specific or simply look better on some rolling stock than others.

I like that different railways offer a difference experience, otherwise it could all be a bit dull.

 

[sprinterguy]

There is a station on Peak Rail that reflects that which I quite like. Very authentic.

I like that different railways offer a difference experience, otherwise it could all be a bit dull.

Ah yes, I'd somehow forgotten about Darley Dale station. To be fair, it has been quite a few years since I last travelled on that line.

We certainly do seem to have heritage railways to suit most tastes in this country.

 

[Merle Haggard]

heritage railways seem unable to commit to a particular theme. Take for example the NLR (The northampton and lamport railway) It has 4 steam (2 operational, 2 under restoration) and 2 diesel (47205 and 31289) 47205 is in a sectorisation era livery, yet they’re repainting the coaches into blood and custard to suit the steam, which only come out a few weekends a year. Why is it like this?

47205 is in RfD livery (and, I think at one stage, it had its 47/3 no. on the non-platform side), and it's owned single-handed by someone with an interest in that era. The only way it could authentically haul a passenger train would be to re-create the days when RfD 47s were 'commandeered' to rescue failed Inter City TOC's trains.
So to be authentic you would need a failed loco and a Mk2 or 3 set, or a failed H.S.T. set and a coupler bar, all in Virgin livery

 

[12LDA28C]

Nice photos! Do they still have a class 27 loco?

Just a 31 and a 47 in terms of main line diesels I believe.

 

[XAM2175]

Why did they let that child in the modern puffer jacket and trainers in!? That's not consistent with the stock!

The compressed typeface used on the top line of the headboard is done by computer too, totally inauthentic.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The compressed typeface used on the top line of the headboard is done by computer too, totally inauthentic.

As is the type face on the box board - and too big.

 

[12C]

I think there are generally two categories of preserved railways, firstly those which act as a ‘living museum’ akin to Beamish etc where as soon as you set foot into the station you feel you are back in time with accurate signage, uniforms, museum collections etc. Some of these do very well to recreate a theme, and can be quite immersive in a way no normal museum can match, even if some stations are different eras eg. the Worth Valley.

Then there are others that primarily offer a train ride, and make little effort to recreate the past or educate visitors about the line’s history. Many have modern style buildings, staff in modern uniform or secondhand TOC hi viz clothing, gaudy cheaply made/computer generated signage at stations flogging Prosecco/afternoon tea/Peppa Pig trains etc. Such operations seem to me more akin to a big train set but personally I think if any lines are receiving taxpayer funding relating to heritage, they should be at least trying to offer an educational experience.

 

[ExRes]

I've expressed an opinion before wondering whether there'd be a market for recreating the experience of the late seventies "wilderness years" of provincial BR: Run down stations, ticket offices closed at random, surly, unco-operative or just plain absent staff, tatty stock, regular delays and cancellations communicated in only the vaguest terms if at all, a trainload of passengers shoehorned into a substitute 2-car DMU.

But surely many people are used to all that by using the train on a daily basis

 

[D6130]

But surely many people are used to all that by using the train on a daily basis

IIRC, only about 5% of the population ever travel by train.

 

[GusB]

In my opinion it’s bad.

yes, take the great central railway, it has a 50 in NSE and a 37 in railfreight petroleum. Why can’t they have a rake of NSE or Inter-City mark 1s to pull about?

Inconsistency is more realistic anyway!

In the last few years of loco-hauled trains on my local line you had locos in a variety of liveries (large logo, Mainline, Intercity/Scotrail etc.) As far as the carriages were concerned they were never matching; blue/grey, Network SouthEast, Scotrail, green/cream and Regional Railways all featured.

Go back further in time and you'd have BR stock mixed up with pre-nationalisation stuff. Life isn't always as neat and tidy as we'd like it to be.

 

[E27007]

Heritage Railways are constrained by resources and money, it would be a dull railway scene without the heritage movement, I'm grateful for the basic fact of their existence

 

[D365]

There is a station on Peak Rail that reflects that which I quite like. Very authentic.

View attachment 132439

What station is this, please? Would be useful to have a description

 

[D6130]

What station is this, please? Would be useful to have a description

See post #44 for the answer.

Ah yes, I'd somehow forgotten about Darley Dale station.

 

[william.martin]

I guess having a mix is also quite nice, cracking line up of LNER, Southern and BR at grosmont yesterday sadly no pics.

 

[heathrowrail]

I agree with this, the South Devon Railway is trying to portray a 1930s GWR image after years of not being able to decide what it wants to be. I find the mix of Shirtbutton, 1920s Great Western plus BR maroon etc to be quite annoying. The SDR could really have something unique if it focused on one particular era.