Why are EMT so expensive?

[Neilandrewhall]

Why are East Midlands Trains so expensive?

Im looking at booking tickets from Norwich to Manchester.

And the fare for 2 adults, 1 with a 16-25 railcard is So stupid the Price.

Super Off Peak Return: £140..

Which is ridiculous, its not even a nice route and much slower compared to virgin.

Any way to get cheaper fares on this route, as can't seem to find any advanced fares for it.

Neil

 

[mikeg]

Some splitting helps, I managed to get it down to 75.40 for an adult without a railcard vs. 84.20 for a super off peak return. Not much of a saving I know.

Off Peak Return from Norwich to Peterborough 19.70
Off Peak Return from Peterborough to Nottingham 21.30
Off Peak Return from Nottingham to Sheffield 16.90
Off Peak Return from Sheffield to Manchester Stns 17.50

Oddly enough all of the flows except Sheffield to Manchester Stns are priced by EMT.
The restrictions are mostly more lenient too I think. No doubt there is a better way, this was just done quickly.

I don't know why it's so expensive.

If you don't like the route you could always change at Grantham and go via Leeds, or Peterborough and go via Doncaster, with East Coast and TPE. Sometimes saves time and there'll probably be some money saving splits for these too although its getting a bit late...

 

[flymo]

Any dates in particular?

There are some advance fares available, just did a random search on the East Coast website for November 4 returning November 6 and found advance tickets from £18 outward (09:57 & 10:57 dep) and £26 return (08:43 & 12:43 dep) valid East Midlands trains only.

 

[MCR247]

Why not put a more descriptive title so people know what it is about?
Why not put it in the ticketing forum?

Maybe its really expensive because its really busy and they want to put you off from going!

 

[wibble]

Why are East Midlands Trains so expensive?

The Super Off Peak Return fare was introduced in January this year. If it didn't exist, the cheapest flexible fare (Off Peak Return) would cost the two of you £155.20.

The route via London with Virgin would cost £168.65 (I'm sure someone else can split it into a cheaper journey) for both of you with Off Peak Returns.

Not a huge difference in price - if you don't like the train company, why bother travelling with them?

 

[Neilandrewhall]

what I was thinking of doing is buying the tickets where I live which is Romford to Manchester via a Any Permitted Route and go via Norwich that way? Which would make it £40 return for me with my Railcard and £60 for the adult return to Manchester from romford?
Thoughts.. Plus is the East Midlands Train comfortable and will it do justice?

Neil

 

[First class]

Not a huge difference in price - if you don't like the train company, why bother travelling with them?

Although somewhat ironically, EMT and Virgin share the same owners...

 

[Lampshade]

EMT are quite expensive, especially compared like-for-like with Midland Mainline.

 

[mikeforest]

East Midlands Trains have upped their fares quite a bit recently. For Saturday travel from St Pancras to Nottingham it's now about £36 return (£18 for 2 advance singles). A couple of months back it was around £24.... Now looking at going via Grantham as quite a bit cheaper and only 10 or so minutes longer

 

[Neilandrewhall]

Blymey, Like east midlands train arn't even the comfortableness of people travel with

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Blymey, Like east midlands train arn't even the comfortableness of people travel with

Excuse me, what? If you are saying what I think you are trying to day, how do you define comfortableness?

 

[yorkie]

Im looking at booking tickets from Norwich to Manchester.

And the fare for 2 adults, 1 with a 16-25 railcard is So stupid the Price.

Super Off Peak Return: £140..

If you can book far enough in advance, you can get very good Norwich-London Advance fares. Using Oyster PAYG gets the Liverpool St - Euston fare to be quite low, alternatively a taxi may be worthwhile for 3 of you if you have lots of luggage. Euston-Manchester can have cheap tickets available, at off peak times, try megatrain.com for cheap fares. Again, book far in advance. If you do not mind a slower journey, then London Midland offer excellent value walk-on Super Off Peak Returns from London to Stoke-on-Trent. From Stoke to Manchester, there is a very affordable Off Peak fare routed Virgin Trains Only (2 trains per hour, so this should suffice), although the Off Peak fare in this case will be valid on any train thanks to your railcard.

It will be slower going via London and taking LM to Stoke, but it will break the journey up a bit, and you will have opportunities to get fresh air and refreshments.

I would avoid EMT. MCR247 is probably right; they don't particularly want your custom! (and as for MCR247's other points, the required changes have been made!)

 

[Zoe]

The Super Off Peak Return fare was introduced in January this year. If it didn't exist, the cheapest flexible fare (Off Peak Return) would cost the two of you £155.20.

Was this actually the introduction of a cheaper fare rather than just the renaming off Off Peak to Super Off Peak to allow a hike in the Off Peak fare?

 

[rail-britain]

I noticed how expensive Midland Trains was a few years ago, when booking a trip to Kettering
It was actually cheaper to travel via London than it was from Crewe via Derby, but sadly I couldn't meet the connection

 

[PhilipW]

Why are East Midlands Trains so expensive?

Because they charge too much.

(Sorry, just couldn't resist it) !!

 

[bengolding]

Prices have rocketed since EMT took over from MML. I travelled from St Pancras to Derby last week and was surprised that EMT no longer offer breakfast on northbound peak services. I got a First Advance that was marginally cheaper than the £121.50 being asked for a First Anytime, although I was reufsed entry into the First Lounge at St Pancras despite it being empty at the time.

On the return, I found it cheaper to go First Class from Derby on the 06:48 XC to Tamworth and then the non-stop Virgin due at 08:22 but arrived at 08:18. Total journey time with 1 change = 1h30 compared to 2h+ that EMT do direct, meaning I arrived into London (Euston) earlier than the painfully slow 06:32 EMT!

A friend who regularly does the journey from London prefers to get the non-stop 16:57/17:57 Euston-Tamworth and XC from there, with a journey time of only 1h35 compared to the direct xx:55 with 1 stop at Leicester taking 1h31.

That's progress for you...

 

[Failed Unit]

Prices have rocketed since EMT took over from MML. I travelled from St Pancras to Derby last week and was surprised that EMT no longer offer breakfast on northbound peak services. I got a First Advance that was marginally cheaper than the £121.50 being asked for a First Anytime, although I was reufsed entry into the First Lounge at St Pancras despite it being empty at the time.

On the return, I found it cheaper to go First Class from Derby on the 06:48 XC to Tamworth and then the non-stop Virgin due at 08:22 but arrived at 08:18. Total journey time with 1 change = 1h30 compared to 2h+ that EMT do direct, meaning I arrived into London (Euston) earlier than the painfully slow 06:32 EMT!

A friend who regularly does the journey from London prefers to get the non-stop 16:57/17:57 Euston-Tamworth and XC from there, with a journey time of only 1h35 compared to the direct xx:55 with 1 stop at Leicester taking 1h31.

That's progress for you...

I guess it is a case of you can charge what you can get away with and some of the trains now have very good loadings so EMT probably think we don't need the AP money. Take Norwich - Liverpool, they probably get more money from a Sheffield - Liverpool anytime ticket than a Norwich - Liverpool AP ticket so why bother with the later? They have an overcrowding problem. Not defending EMT, people will use other routes if they can so EMT will not push too hard.

I understand people from Sheffield do similar things and travel via Doncaster to get cheaper tickets (and better service in 1st Class)

People will prefer the direct train in some cases, changing is often as quick until you miss the connection.

 

[wibble]

Was this actually the introduction of a cheaper fare rather than just the renaming off Off Peak to Super Off Peak to allow a hike in the Off Peak fare?

Yes, although I did get my initial dates wrong.

Until 04 Sep 2010:
Off Peak Return £93.50

From 05 Sep 2010:
Off Peak Return £93.50
Super Off Peak Return £84.20
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I guess it is a case of you can charge what you can get away with and some of the trains now have very good loadings so EMT probably think we don't need the AP money. Take Norwich - Liverpool, they probably get more money from a Sheffield - Liverpool anytime ticket than a Norwich - Liverpool AP ticket so why bother with the later? They have an overcrowding problem. Not defending EMT, people will use other routes if they can so EMT will not push too hard.

I understand people from Sheffield do similar things and travel via Doncaster to get cheaper tickets (and better service in 1st Class)

People will prefer the direct train in some cases, changing is often as quick until you miss the connection.

I think you're right on one point - that the loadings are high enough that they don't need to justify offering as many AP tickets over busier sections of the route.

I do remember something about EMT proposing to add 20% onto un-regulated fares when they took over the franchise. Not sure if this increase was added included as a franchise commitment...

 

[38Cto15E]

I also have noticed EMT fares creeping up, I suppose it is a case of supply and demand, if the trains were not busy then advance fares would probably fall.
It is not all bad news though, I looked at buying a First class ticket from STP-LEI in early December and it is £9.90 with railcard.

I usually buy an Advance ticket with EMT so I am not going to criticise too much, but for passengers paying close to £200 return the on board service experience is still poor following the recent changes.

 

[DJ737]

Looking at fares on EMT, you can do St. Pancras-Chinley in first class cheaper than St. Pancras-Sheffield using the same trains ex St. Pancras with a 1st Advance.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia