Why are coaches allowed to have steps?

[gazthomas]

I've tried to search this forum but couldn't find an answer, so hopefully you can help.

Buses and trains are generally step free or near-enough.

So why not coaches? Is there an exemption? Will this change?

 

[richw]

Accessibility for coaches operating open door routes comes into force in 2020. For private hire there is no such rules being implemented. It is down to the hirer to specify an accessible coach if needed,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Buses are allowed to have steps if they have a wheelchair lift, AIUI. It's just that low-floor is considered a better way to do it because of speed of boarding and reduced need for assistance.

All new Nat Ex coaches have had wheelchair lifts for ages now.

 

[enrag2000]

Accessibility for coaches operating open door routes comes into force in 2020.

2020 is the date for full implementation, however coaches built from 2005 have had to comply to be eligible for use on open-door services.

 

[the101]

I've tried to search this forum but couldn't find an answer, so hopefully you can help.

Buses and trains are generally step free or near-enough.

So why not coaches? Is there an exemption? Will this change?

Just a hunch fella, but I think it may well be something to do with the fact that they require space for luggage to be underneath them.

:roll:

Is there an exemption?

An 'exemption' to what? The PSVAR standards for coaches used on registered services are already laid down and there is nary a mention in there about steps.

 

[PeterC]

PSVAR standards

Bedtime reading for all passengers.

It was quite clear from the post that the OP's perception was that level access was a precondition for "accessibility". As this is standard on both buses and trains it is a reasonable assumption for anybody without a technical knowedge of the regulations.

 

[Darandio]

Just a hunch fella, but I think it may well be something to do with the fact that they require space for luggage to be underneath them.

:roll:

An 'exemption' to what? The PSVAR standards for coaches used on registered services are already laid down and there is nary a mention in there about steps.

Condescension and rolling eyes don't really help someone asking a genuine question, do they?

Or should we just bow to your superior, all conquering knowledge.

 

[6Gman]

Long distance passengers also tend to prefer the higher viewpoint of the passing countryside.

 

[GusB]

I've tried to search this forum but couldn't find an answer, so hopefully you can help.

Buses and trains are generally step free or near-enough.

So why not coaches? Is there an exemption? Will this change?

PSVAR is Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations, and is being rolled out gradually across different vehicle types. I'm not an expert on these matters, but so far I've gathered that vehicles should comply from the following dates:

- 1 January 2015 for single-deck buses of 7.5 tonnes or less
- 1 January 2016 for single-deck buses more than 7.5 tonnes
- 1 January 2017 for double-deck buses
- 1 January 2020 for single-deck and double-deck coaches

The requirements include:

- space for a wheelchair, with suitable safety provisions, depending on whether the wheelchair is carried facing forwards or backwards
- a boarding device to enable wheelchair users to get on and off vehicles
- priority seats for disabled passengers
- criteria for steps
- handrails to assist disabled people
- visual contrast of features like handrails and steps to help partially sighted people
- easy-to-use bell pushes throughout the vehicle
- audible and visible signals to stop a vehicle or to request a boarding device
- external equipment to display the correct route and destination

Source:
https://movingon.blog.gov.uk/2016/02/16/accessibility-standards-for-public-service-vehicles-2/

See also:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bus-coach-accessibility-faq

 

[northwichcat]

Some coaches have what are described as 'emergency toilets.' Do any changes have to be made to these?

 

[Surreyman]

PSVAR is Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations, and is being rolled out gradually across different vehicle types. I'm not an expert on these matters, but so far I've gathered that vehicles should comply from the following dates:

- 1 January 2015 for single-deck buses of 7.5 tonnes or less
- 1 January 2016 for single-deck buses more than 7.5 tonnes
- 1 January 2017 for double-deck buses
- 1 January 2020 for single-deck and double-deck coaches




Source:
https://movingon.blog.gov.uk/2016/02/16/accessibility-standards-for-public-service-vehicles-2/

See also:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bus-coach-accessibility-faq

All true for Coaches 'In Public Service' i.e where any member of the public can pay and travel - bus services, Express Coach services, Does not apply to private hire/tours etc (Although as already mentioned, coach operators can opt to have a coach constructed with wheelchair facilities if they so wish).

 

[KendalKing]

Some coaches have what are described as 'emergency toilets.' Do any changes have to be made to these?

That is a very good point.

Most Toilets on coaches are that small, when the door is closed, it is impossible to move inside the Toilet.

 

[philthetube]

Take out 4 seats for Disabled toilet, two for wider entrance, four for wheelchair space, assuming 50 seater 20% cost increase per passenger. Wheelchair space is unsuitable for other use on long distance coaches because of no standing rules and seatbelt legislation.

 

[gazthomas]

Condescension and rolling eyes don't really help someone asking a genuine question, do they?

Or should we just bow to your superior, all conquering knowledge.

Thanks Darandio, some folk just like to feel superior. My question was legitimate, hey, some coaches have luggage at the back or in separate trailers. My question was triggered by watching 40 * 70+ aged people struggle on and off a coach!

 

[fowler9]

Respect to the OP for asking the question as I have pondered similarly. I guess there must be variations in the laws around disability access. Lets face it, if it is all encompassing it is going to mean an end to air travel or every plane would need to be level access, have massive aisles and at least one huge toilet.

 

[northwichcat]

Respect to the OP for asking the question as I have pondered similarly. I guess there must be variations in the laws around disability access. Lets face it, if it is all encompassing it is going to mean an end to air travel or every plane would need to be level access, have massive aisles and at least one huge toilet.

There is a bit of a difference between trains and planes with regards to toilets. On a train the toilet is available any time between when you board and when you alight (just a restriction on when it can be flushed on older trains.) On a plane the toilets can't be used while the plane is taking off/landing or at any time the pilot decides it's necessary for passengers to be in their seats with seat belts fastened. In theory you could be on a flight where it's not possible to use the toilet at any time.

And with wheelchair users they had to be moved to an Airport wheelchair so their own wheelchair can go in the hold and then be transferred from the Airport wheelchair to a plane seat. Unlike on a train where the passenger remains in their own wheelchair for the entire journey.

 

[fowler9]

There is a bit of a difference between trains and planes with regards to toilets. On a train the toilet is available any time between when you board and when you alight (just a restriction on when it can be flushed on older trains.) On a plane the toilets can't be used while the plane is taking off/landing or at any time the pilot decides it's necessary for passengers to be in their seats with seat belts fastened. In theory you could be on a flight where it's not possible to use the toilet at any time.

And with wheelchair users they had to be moved to an Airport wheelchair so their own wheelchair can go in the hold and then be transferred from the Airport wheelchair to a plane seat. Unlike on a train where the passenger remains in their own wheelchair for the entire journey.

That is kind of my point. Different rules apply.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wheelchair space is unsuitable for other use on long distance coaches because of no standing rules and seatbelt legislation.

Folding seats are probably the way to do that - near enough every single car on the market has folding rear seats of some kind so I'm sure a coach version is possible.

Realistically, toilet stops on request by wheelchair users where facilities are available is probably the way to meet the requirement for coaches. On a typical long distance coach journey this would be easy enough to arrange.

I do think there is an issue with aircraft, particularly long haul, and I do think that should be addressed with one large toilet being required on aircraft used on longer flights, as you can hardly land for a quick wee.

 

[AndrewE]

I guess it is assumed that a "coach" has driver-supervised boarding, whatever use that is, and is limited stop. Elderly relatives of mine like coach holiday trips because the driver and hotel staff move all the luggage after they have "checked in."
Also

"criteria for steps"

may be significant. I suspect it lets "coaches" off the rules that apply to PSVs.

The question that isn't addressed is how the railway's obligation for disabled travellers is dealt with on rail-replacement buses!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The question that isn't addressed is how the railway's obligation for disabled travellers is dealt with on rail-replacement buses!

A taxi.

 

[AndrewE]

A taxi.

Fair enough.
A

 

[Starmill]

Merseyrail appear to have a stand-by minibus complete with lift at Moorfields at the moment, owing to the lack of a lift I guess at James Street.

 

[Mikey C]

Thanks Darandio, some folk just like to feel superior. My question was legitimate, hey, some coaches have luggage at the back or in separate trailers. My question was triggered by watching 40 * 70+ aged people struggle on and off a coach!

Maybe operators who specialise in tours for the elderly could just invest in high quality low floor single deck buses instead?

On the down side the view out would be far worse, and they would be noisier too as the engine would be less insulated from the passenger area

 

[gordonthemoron]

Take out 4 seats for Disabled toilet, two for wider entrance, four for wheelchair space, assuming 50 seater 20% cost increase per passenger. Wheelchair space is unsuitable for other use on long distance coaches because of no standing rules and seatbelt legislation.

Turkey can manage with 2+1 seating and extra leg room on luxury coaches, why can't we?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Turkey can manage with 2+1 seating and extra leg room on luxury coaches, why can't we?

There isn't really the market for it, as that market segment will be going by train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe operators who specialise in tours for the elderly could just invest in high quality low floor single deck buses instead?

On the down side the view out would be far worse, and they would be noisier too as the engine would be less insulated from the passenger area

And nowhere for the bags.

But in the end these tours are not compulsory, so if they are filling them up the users probably don't mind.

 

[ECML180]

Turkey can manage with 2+1 seating and extra leg room on luxury coaches, why can't we?

We can in the markets where people are willing to pay for it. Likewise they can get at seat service and a TV in every seat-back...but not enough people judge it to be worth their money so the majority of the market doesn't cater for it.

Then again Turkey must be ok with 3+2 bench seating and terrible leg room because they exported school buses like that to us...so maybe their market is differentiated too?