Why are Class 700s considered unpopular?

[RacsoMoquette]

I think that the Advent of the Class 700 on the heavily congested Thameslink routes, was extremely good and beneficial for the passenger. Initially the totally unsuitable and rather unpleasant, aging Class 319s were withdrawn, thus ending the severe woes of commuting around the capital. The trains are long, spacious and modern with pleasant interiors, compared to the drab and outdated examples we have seen prior. They also feature far better passenger information. Which really was troublesome on Class 319s due to the lake of information systems.

As a regular passenger on the southern ECML, the Desiro City has become a common train that I ride, and I would always prefer a Class 700 to a Class 387. This is due to the former having far wider of internal gangways, while the latter have comparatively narrower of a gangway, thus making the train feel busy, even when not actually. I have never had any trouble with the Class 700, and reliability seems good. They also seem of a superior build quality to Electrostar members such as the Class 387s and 379s. With the latter I recently travelled, having terrible body rattling, even worse ride quality out of Kings Cross, something that is less notable on Class 700s I think the seating, albeit hard is adequate for the routes the Desiro Cities serve.

Compared to other countries such as France, they still use 30 year old commuter trains on the RER, which are really in need of replacement, I think London and South-East England are quite fortunate to have sleek, modern, reliable commuter trains!

 

[Jan Mayen]

The Class 700 Thameslink train do the job superbly well, especially when they turn up on 12 car variety. In my case, I know I'm going to get on, probably get a seat and get to where I need to go. The number of times I've actually had to stand is miniscule.

However, they just don't generate anything which makes me want to like them. I doubt I'll be making any journeys to heritage railways in the future to ride in a Class 700.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

The Class 700 Thameslink train do the job superbly well, especially when they turn up on 12 car variety. In my case, I know I'm going to get on, probably get a seat and get to where I need to go. The number of times I've actually had to stand is miniscule.

However, they just don't generate anything which makes me want to like them. I doubt I'll be making any journeys to heritage railways in the future to ride in a Class 700.

Many modern trains are boring and soleless nowadays, I agree Aventra units I also find extreamly dull, the Class 720 units on GA, and the SWR Class 701s are not exciting. Compared to the characterful charm of the Slam Door stock and Metropolitan A60 and A62 stock!

 

[321362]

I think that the Advent of the Class 700 on the heavily congested Thameslink routes, was extremely good and beneficial for the passenger. Initially the totally unsuitable and rather unpleasant, aging Class 319s were withdrawn, thus ending the severe woes of commuting around the capital. The trains are long, spacious and modern with pleasant interiors, compared to the drab and outdated examples we have seen prior. They also feature far better passenger information. Which really was troublesome on Class 319s due to the lake of information systems.

As a regular passenger on the southern ECML, the Desiro City has become a common train that I ride, and I would always prefer a Class 700 to a Class 387. This is due to the former having far wider of internal gangways, while the latter have comparatively narrower of a gangway, thus making the train feel busy, even when not actually. I have never had any trouble with the Class 700, and reliability seems good. They also seem of a superior build quality to Electrostar members such as the Class 387s and 379s. With the latter I recently travelled, having terrible body rattling, even worse ride quality out of Kings Cross, something that is less notable on Class 700s I think the seating, albeit hard is adequate for the routes the Desiro Cities serve.

Compared to other countries such as France, they still use 30 year old commuter trains on the RER, which are really in need of replacement, I think London and South-East England are quite fortunate to have sleek, modern, reliable commuter trains!

ironing boards, that's why

 

[D365]

I find the interiors a lot harsher when comparing with the contemporary Class 345

 

[stadler]

I have never understood the unpopularity of them either. They are by far my favourite trains that are currently in service. The entire Desiro City fleet (700/707/717) of trains is amazing.

They have such a nice bright spacious interior. The aisles are extremely wide. In fact the aisles are wide enough that a wheelchair can easily wheel down the entire twelve coach train. The doorways are extremely wide. They have really nice extra large windows. The ride quality is excellent and very smooth. The air conditioning is fantastic and much more powerful than many other classes. The interior feels really nice and has a much nicer brighter ambiance compared to some other classes.

I know the seats have some complaints but personally i have become so used to the ironing boards that i do not really mind then. Sure they are not the best seats but they are definitely not the worst. I suppose the seats are probably the major thing that some people dislike.

 

[Failed Unit]

Many threads about this, for me.

1. No seat back tables on the majority of them
2. The channel by the wall, meaning you can’t sit properly in the seat and need to tilt your legs into the seat next to you.
3. The lack of arm-rests.

I actively avoid them, I know most of the weekday diagrams they are on. Clearly if I am heading onto the core I will put up with them.

The would be good trains if someone had provided a better seating layout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me they're a bit bland, but the Class 730/0 is basically the same thing but designed to look homely and with slightly better seats. They do the job very well though.

 

[Invincible]

On the crowded trains into Waterloo 707s were basically "cattle trucks" not much better than 455s. on many outer suburban services the 450s and 458s were much more comfortable and had toilets

 

[Hadders]

I think that the Advent of the Class 700 on the heavily congested Thameslink routes, was extremely good and beneficial for the passenger. Initially the totally unsuitable and rather unpleasant, aging Class 319s were withdrawn, thus ending the severe woes of commuting around the capital. The trains are long, spacious and modern with pleasant interiors, compared to the drab and outdated examples we have seen prior. They also feature far better passenger information. Which really was troublesome on Class 319s due to the lake of information systems.

As a regular passenger on the southern ECML, the Desiro City has become a common train that I ride, and I would always prefer a Class 700 to a Class 387. This is due to the former having far wider of internal gangways, while the latter have comparatively narrower of a gangway, thus making the train feel busy, even when not actually. I have never had any trouble with the Class 700, and reliability seems good. They also seem of a superior build quality to Electrostar members such as the Class 387s and 379s. With the latter I recently travelled, having terrible body rattling, even worse ride quality out of Kings Cross, something that is less notable on Class 700s I think the seating, albeit hard is adequate for the routes the Desiro Cities serve.

Compared to other countries such as France, they still use 30 year old commuter trains on the RER, which are really in need of replacement, I think London and South-East England are quite fortunate to have sleek, modern, reliable commuter trains!

On the Great Northern side they are a massive downgrade on the much missed class 365s.

The 365s had the perfect outer suburban layout:

- Decent seats, I never heard anyone complain about them in more than 20 years of almost daily travelling on them
- Reasonable seat pitch
- Good window layout
- Good mix of bays and airline seats catering for groups and families (admittedly slightly ruined by the GTR dumbing down refresh in 2015)
- 2+2 seating with wide aisles allowing plenty of standing passengers during disruption and busy times
- Fast loading thanks to the wide doors, large vestibules and triangular tables

Time moves on, and the main benefit of the 700s is their ability to hoover up passengers, particularly at times of disruption. I do think a 365-style layout in the 700s would have been better but we are where we are. The standard class layout of the 365s is great for a short hop but not great if you're doing a longer distance journey.

Of course enthusiasts also liked the 365s for:

- the fantastic whining sound of the motors
- the hopper windows
- the smiley face on the front

In fact there was nothing quite like travelling on a 365 on a hot summer evening on the down fast at 100mph with all the windows open . A wind in the hair experience, sadly missed.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I have never understood the unpopularity of them either. They are by far my favourite trains that are currently in service. The entire Desiro City fleet (700/707/717) of trains is amazing.

They have such a nice bright spacious interior. The aisles are extremely wide. In fact the aisles are wide enough that a wheelchair can easily wheel down the entire twelve coach train. The doorways are extremely wide. They have really nice extra large windows. The ride quality is excellent and very smooth. The air conditioning is fantastic and much more powerful than many other classes. The interior feels really nice and has a much nicer brighter ambiance compared to some other classes.

I know the seats have some complaints but personally i have become so used to the ironing boards that i do not really mind then. Sure they are not the best seats but they are definitely not the worst. I suppose the seats are probably the major thing that some people dislike.

Compare the build quality of Desiro Cities or Stadler METROs The difference is huge! Although I like Stadler products (especially the FLIRT family) the recent trouble with Class 555s and 777s is concerning.

 

[Trainben]

A very well designed commuter train. Spacious with plenty of seats even during busier times, quiet smooth ride, helpful clear information screens, wide doors, simple fixtures that are easy to clean and still look in great condition 10 years on. They make a good alternative to the Northern Line bank branch when commuting from St Pancras to City and London Bridge especially during heatwaves.

 

[Failed Unit]

A very well designed commuter train. Spacious with plenty of seats even during busier times, quiet smooth ride, helpful clear information screens, wide doors, simple fixtures that are easy to clean and still look in great condition 10 years on. They make a good alternative to the Northern Line bank branch when commuting from St Pancras to City and London Bridge especially during heatwaves.

Trouble is Kings Lynn - London I would not class a commuter route, which I is the case for many of the services they are on.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I hate them and avoid them whenever I can, even to the extent of travelling Royston - Cambridge - London in the off-peak if I am in no hurry so that I can have a 379/387 on one of the GN's 1TXX services. I find the white and grey interiors of the 700s as appealing as a dentist's surgery. I also find that feel like a room that has been emptied of furniture, where noises echo off the walls and floor. If the train is full I cannot sit on the floor, which I can do on a crowded 379/387. They have no redeeming features as far as I am concerned.

 

[Bald Rick]

In my experience, the only place they are unpopular is on enthuiasts forums.

 

[NSEWonderer]

They're unpopular because there unremarkable imo. Thats not a bad thing, they do there job very well to the point that they just don't have much quirks about them that make them stand out.

Very good and versatile trains, the seating had nothing to do with them, thats the dft. Doesn't change that the train is a good kit by Siemens, worthy upgrade to their original Desiros.

 

[RUK]

I will always wait longer for a 387 than get a 700, because of the ironing board seats, and also, the 700s non-disabled toilet has a sliding door which slides in the same direction as the direction of travel, which slides one way when the train accelerates, and the other when the train brakes, so it constantly slams open and shut noisily. All other trains I have travelled on have a hinged door for the non-disabled toilet, probably to prevent this from happening. I prefer the Class 379 over the 387 over the 365 over the 700.

 

[Hadders]

the 700s non-disabled toilet has a sliding door which slides in the same direction as the direction of travel

The train doesn't turn round at the end of it's journey so the door can't always slide in the same direction as the direction of travel

 

[RUK]

The train doesn't turn round at the end of it's journey so it can't always slide in the same direction as the direction of travel

As in, the door slides along runners which are parallel to the long sides of the train, so it slides back and forth whichever direction the train is travelling in - it’s not always sliding forwards, sometimes it’s sliding backwards - I don’t know how else I can describe it? I guess you’ll have to have seen it on a Class 700 to see what I mean. This video on YouTube shows the door sliding by itself - the train doesn’t seem to be changing speed that much, so it’s not opening and closing that quickly and making a lot of noise, but it can do:

 

[Transilien]

In my opinion, the class 700 is the perfect metro train. The problem is that most of the routes that these trains are used on are not metro routes. Thameslink and Great Northern routes are mostly outer-suburban and regional routes with services that go over 50 miles commonly. The spartan interior is only really suitable for the central core of Thameslink and the Sutton loop services. Perhaps a refurbishment to make the interior more like a class 380 or a 2+2 class 350 would make these units more suitable for the actual routes that these units are used on.

 

[Hadders]

As in, the door slides along runners which are parallel to the sides of the train, so it slides back and forth whichever direction the train is travelling in - it’s not always sliding forwards, sometimes it’s sliding backwards - I don’t know how else I can describe it?

OK I see what you mean now.

If the door is correctly shut it doesn't happen. Hinged doors also have a habit of swinging open if not properly closed, in my experience.

there are plenty of carriages without toilets in the 700s though so you don't have to sit too near one.

 

[Failed Unit]

The 717 on the other hand is an improvement (as the 313s were getting on a bit) They have the same problems with that channel taking the leg room on the window side. However they are an improvement on what was there before. The 700s are much worse the the 365s / 321s they replaced in terms of comfort. Granted they can take crush loading better, but that is rare to be honest (the 717s do get crush loads)

 

[RUK]

If the door is correctly shut it doesn't happen. Hinged doors also have a habit of swinging open if not properly closed, in my experience.

there are plenty of carriages without toilets in the 700s though so you don't have to sit too near one.

There’s nothing to keep it shut unless it’s locked, so it always slides by itself if it’s unoccupied. Also, how much choice you can have in where you are in the train depends on how full it is. I think most people don’t choose to sit too near toilets in any case, if they have a choice, perhaps unless they might need to use one frequently.

 

[Magdalia]

I don't do much travelling these days, but a significant proportion of my journeys from the Fens are to destinations in Surrey and Sussex. This usually involves travelling on class 700s between Cambridge and Blackfriars, London Bridge or East Croydon.

I prefer class 700s to any of classes 377/379/387. Even when only travelling to Central London I will usually take a class 700 to St Pancras or Farringdon in preference to a class 387 to Kings Cross.

I think that they are excellent trains and I would not change much. The interior decoration could do with a bit more colour and it would be nice if all of the 12 car trains had seat back tables. The toilets could do with a bit of work too: operation of the soap dispenser, water and hand dryer are all erratic, and they are very vulnerable to graffiti.

But these are minor gripes: overall the class 700 is very well designed for what it does.

I do find the dislike of class 700s on this forum mildly amusing, especially as it is often combined with a love fest for the class 365, which I always found to be a very uncomfortable train.

 

[physics34]

I think I've bored everyone with my criticism of these units in the past. One thing is for sure is that they hold alot of people. ..

But the seating is awful and doesn't make sense. You have a wide aisle but because the seats are pushed against the wall, narrow and gave poor legroom people have to swing their legs out into the aisle making the wide aisle pointless!

 

[Farigiraf]

I agree that in terms of train quality, the 700 could be considered as 'functional'. For a commuter/suburban rail train, it's great, but definitely sub-par for longer journeys.
At the next refurbishment, they should definitely consider adding some more comfortable seating for people making 1hr+ trips on the Cambridge/Bedford/Peterborough/Brighton/Rainham routes. Perhaps with the 12 car units, replace the declassified first class section with a (free) 'premium' seating section (i.e. tables and charging points) for people joining the train at the ends of the network, with all of the train overall having more comfortable seating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think I've bored everyone with my criticism of these units in the past. One thing is for sure is that the hold alot of people. ..

But the seating is awful and doesn't make sense. You have a wide aisle but because the seats are pushed against the wall, narrow and gave poor legroom people have to swing their legs out into the aisle making the wide aisle pointless!

The seats aren't pushed against the wall. Unlike some other such units they are actually slightly spaced from it - not quite an armrest's width but not far off.

 

[bspahh]

On the Great Northern side they are a massive downgrade on the much missed class 365s.

The 365s had the perfect outer suburban layout:

Personally, I prefer a 387 to a 365. The toilets don't smell. They have selective door opening, so 8 car trains can run through to Kings Lynn. The windows don't open, so the cabin doesn't fill with pollen in the summer. The couplings work first time, rather than taking 5-10 minutes of bashing back and forth to connect units.

On the down side, a 387 lurches violently between Ely and Cambridge. I assume the suspension bottoms out on a bump. Its not a problem on a class 755 or 700 on the same route.

A 700 would be much better with somewhere to hold a coffee cup and power sockets to charge a laptop.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thankfully I don't travel on them anymore since they entered traffic but the interiors were nothing more than a clinical hospital room with no legroom next to the windows. Yes they were built for purpose but they weren't built for comfort or aesthetics.

 

[Express380]

Really enjoy them, myself and family usually opt for them over 377s for the decent luggage space and the rear carriage comfort however we are more than happy with the standard seating also.