Whoops

[me123]

I think we're arguing along the same lines here to a large extent. And my TOC also operated a BD service (FSR, but they get NYD off because they're Scottish).

Boxing Day demand lies with Sporting Fixtures, sales (did you see the news? They were insane this year!), and people without a car visiting relatives. And people who work on Boxing Day who own no car. (There will be some).

I was unaware you were sacrificing a holiday for these no-service days to be honest, as I said, I learn something new all the time!

And Christmas a waste of time? Bah Humbug! I fully agree!

Out of curiosity, where do you work in the Rail industry?

 

[Tom C]

I think we're arguing along the same lines here to a large extent. And my TOC also operated a BD service (FSR, but they get NYD off because they're Scottish).

I don't think we are arguing really just a heated debate

FCC ran a skeleton service from Blackfriars to Brighton but only because they heard Southern were running through Gatwick! They also ran coaches between Kings Cross and Luton Airport but could not really run much more because Kings Cross to Blackfriars was shut for engineering work (which ran through to the 27th!) New Years Day is a normal Sunday service.

Boxing Day demand lies with Sporting Fixtures, sales (did you see the news? They were insane this year!), and people without a car visiting relatives. And people who work on Boxing Day who own no car. (There will be some).

Full football programme I grant you although I don't class this as essential seeing as my team have an excellent coach service for home and away games and I think football clubs should do this anyway to show they do appriciate the support of the man paying £20-30 quid for a ticket and £4 for a bacon buttie!. I still maintain people should have better things to do over Christmas other than sales. We have been without a Boxing Day service for long enough for people to make plans and when I was a kid there were no London Buses on Boxing Day either. People who NEED to work are the only ones that I agree with and the Doctor who got stuffed through whatever reason whether it be FGW, the Trainline or the Queen should be given his money back and heafty compensation because this is a classic example of how bad the communication is on the railwa.y (just look at the WCML fiasco!!!). RJIS even had a sleeper running on Xmas day from Glasgow to Euston which still hadn't been removed on Christmas Eve which just goes to show the attention to detail!

I was unaware you were sacrificing a holiday for these no-service days to be honest, as I said, I learn something new all the time!

Its so often the case that people say things without knowing the full facts and to be fair you did have rational behind your point although people often base an arguement over what they read in the papers (or even worse Rail magazine!) and don't know this sort of thing.

Out of curiosity, where do you work in the Rail industry?

I work for FCC (for my sins!)

 

[djw1981]

. Having being brought up in a traditional way, Boxing Day was spend visiting family and all the usual stuff so why would you want to use a train on Boxing Day? If the demand was coming from people needing trains to go to work then thats a different story and I do agree that Gatwick, Luton, Stansted etc should have some sort of train service but I just cannot find any other reason for there needing to be a Boxing Day service.

But what about those without a car, or whose relatives are at the other end of the country and dislike driving 500 miles in (potentially) very bad weather. An increasing proportion of rail travel is for leisure purposes, and to not run this market on a day of sporting: Football, Racing, Rugby; entertainment: theatre, panto, cinema releases; and a big shopping day seems daft. If we want the train to be a serious alternative to road, then it has to be available when people need it, and since the majority of the population receive 26th Dec as a holiday, they will wish to use their leisure time. If trains are increasingly used for leisure, and that day is a day o peak leisure activity, then the service should support it.

I appreciate the role of staff in this, but rostas could be devised to allow staff to work Christmas period (24th / 26th) or New Year (31st / 2nd) so as to allow one full holiday per festive period.

 

[Tom C]

But what about those without a car, or whose relatives are at the other end of the country and dislike driving 500 miles in (potentially) very bad weather. An increasing proportion of rail travel is for leisure purposes, and to not run this market on a day of sporting: Football, Racing, Rugby; entertainment: theatre, panto, cinema releases; and a big shopping day seems daft. If we want the train to be a serious alternative to road, then it has to be available when people need it, and since the majority of the population receive 26th Dec as a holiday, they will wish to use their leisure time. If trains are increasingly used for leisure, and that day is a day o peak leisure activity, then the service should support it.

Like I said I see your arguement and its because I come from a background which uses Boxing Day in the same way as Christmas Day that I cannot falthom this culture of shopping and going to a pantomine on Boxing Day. What people keep glossing over is the fact that most of the network is surrendered to Network Rail for enginnering work so even if the will was there to run a train service it would be dominated by rail replacement buses.

I appreciate the role of staff in this, but rostas could be devised to allow staff to work Christmas period (24th / 26th) or New Year (31st / 2nd) so as to allow one full holiday per festive period.

It may be that my TOC has provided services on Boxing Day in the past so excuse my ignorence but people often don't work Boxing Day because the TOC hasn't scheduled any services. With regards to rostering.... Public Holidays are part of our working week so we have to take Christmas Day and Boxing Day off whether a train runs or not and if a service was to run and providing its in place well in advance then the annual leave procedure for Boxing Day would be the same as any other day (i.e limit on staff off). As for the 2nd, well its a Monday to Friday service and things are back to normal so I presume you are referring to Scotland, here in England trains are running on New Years Day and sadly I am working as I am new years eve and did work Christmas Eve.

 

[Mojo]

People in lots of jobs have to either give up their annual leave for all holidays, or, if they have none left, take unpaid leave or time off in lieu. I know I had to, and also know of many others who do.

 

[Tom C]

People in lots of jobs have to either give up their annual leave for all holidays, or, if they have none left, take unpaid leave or time off in lieu. I know I had to, and also know of many others who do.

I didn't say they didn't <sigh>

What I am saying is that this thought that everyone gets it off for free is infact incorrect.

 

[Mojo]

If you take a job in any industry, then surely you must prepare to meet the demands of your customers, who, arguably, may want to travel over the festive season?

 

[Lewisham2221]

If you take a job in any industry, then surely you must prepare to meet the demands of your customers, who, arguably, may want to travel over the festive season?

No.

Customers should be prepared to plan what they want to do around what is available for them, and provide a bit of respect for a few festive days off for the people who work to provide a service for them for the rest of the year.

 

[Tom C]

If you take a job in any industry, then surely you must prepare to meet the demands of your customers, who, arguably, may want to travel over the festive season?

Have you read anything that has been said in this thread?

I have said three times now that most railway staff do not work because the TOC's don't schedule any trains. I have said twice that management within the railways are reluctant to use too many staff on Boxing Day because of the premium payments and it has also been mentioned more than once that a good deal of the network is being worked on over the Christmas period because traditionally its the only time of the year when there is 48 hours of unbroken work time.

 

[Mojo]

Yes, but campaigners and politicians are calling on the DfT to provide funding for these additional trains, so premium payments wouldn't have to do anything with it.

On the routes that have engineering works, then coaches could be provided. I drove over 70 miles on Christmas Day and my journey took about 15 min less than normal. From the other thread "Network Rail has claimed that it would be difficult to run trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day because it does so much engineering work on those days. Yet the company is reducing the time it needs for this.

A Network Rail spokesman said that it would be relatively simple to accommodate passenger trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day because most signal boxes would be manned to serve engineering trains."

 

[Tom C]

Yes, but campaigners and politicians are calling on the DfT to provide funding for these additional trains, so premium payments wouldn't have to do anything with it.

The Labour government said it would renationalise the railways as soon as it got into power......... 10 years later etc etc...............

If the TOC's wanted staff to work then I am confident that people would do it, you and many other people within this thread have been banging on about staff refusing to work which is simply not true.

On the routes that have engineering works, then coaches could be provided.

That means you will have to find bus and coach operators who are willing or even able to provide large scale rail replacement operations. As a former bus driver I can tell you that bus companies have trouble getting enough staff to operate their normal Boxing Day service let alone finding just as many drivers to run a rail replacement service. I can also tell you that the rates for a rail replacement driver, on overtime and over the christmas period is not chicken feed.

A Network Rail spokesman said that it would be relatively simple to accommodate passenger trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day because most signal boxes would be manned to serve engineering trains."

There is absolutely no need for a service on Christmas Day. You could provide some sort of service over Boxing Day providing that its possible around the engineering possessions.

Before anyone starts talking about a need on Christmas Day I have never heard a single person moan that there is no service on Christmas Day or Boxing Day in all my years on the Railway or as a Bus Driver and many are shocked to know that Gatwick Express run a coach service on Christmas Day. My partner is a midwife as was my grandmother and my mother was a nurse who had to work on Christmas Day and the NHS provided them with transport into work on Christmas Day.