Who would have made this decision

[Harlesden]

From Wikipedia
Up to closure (Lincoln) St. Marks was the mainline station with through services from Cleethorpes to London. These services were stopped with rail privatisation requiring a change of train at Newark North Gate.

Are there any other examples of privatisation meaning the end of an established service?

 

[150222]

From Wikipedia
Up to closure (Lincoln) St. Marks was the mainline station with through services from Cleethorpes to London. These services were stopped with rail privatisation requiring a change of train at Newark North Gate.

Are there any other examples of privatisation meaning the end of an established service?

The watford west line?

 

[Zoe]

Are there any other examples of privatisation meaning the end of an established service?

The South West to Scotland sleepers. I'm not sure which franchise would have operated them had they survived privatization.

 

[ainsworth74]

The South West to Scotland sleepers. I'm not sure which franchise would have operated them had they survived privatization.

Seeing as they went to Scotland I would guess Scotrail either that or Cross Country, there isn't anywhere else they'd fit.

As for services that stopped and privatisation how about Kings Cross - Middlesbrough?

 

[Zoe]

Seeing as they went to Scotland I would guess Scotrail either that or Cross Country, there isn't anywhere else they'd fit.

Great Western Trains (later FGW) or Virgin West Coast would also have been possibilities.

 

[ainsworth74]

Great Western Trains (later FGW) or Virgin West Coast would also have been possibilities.

Hmm I'm not sure on the routes of the of the SW - Scotland sleepers but it seems a ways outside of Great Western's area of operations (though I suppose so is Scotrail's Euston - Scotland sleepers). It seems to make sense to have all the Scottish sleepers under one operator.

As for VT it would have never happened as they refused to take on the sleeper part of ICWC hence why it ended up with Scotrail.

 

[Eagle]

From Wikipedia
Up to closure (Lincoln) St. Marks was the mainline station with through services from Cleethorpes to London. These services were stopped with rail privatisation requiring a change of train at Newark North Gate.

Uh? Lincoln St Marks closed in 1985, well before privatization. Seems to be sloppy editing on Wikipedians' behalf here, I can't make out what that's supposed to say...

 

[the sniper]

The South West to Scotland sleepers. I'm not sure which franchise would have operated them had they survived privatization.

I'm thought this service was cut by BR prior to privatisation on low usage/cost grounds, maybe around 1993?

If it'd survived until privatisation, I can only see that Scotrail would have taken it on, like they did with the WC sleeper.

 

[Zoe]

I'm thought this service was cut by BR prior to privatisation on low usage/cost grounds, maybe around 1993?

It ran until 1995.

 

[Schnellzug]

Sounds like people being keen to blame Privatisation for every single closure, much like Beeching. I wonder if one day there'll be an overlap, and Priviatisation will be blamed for something Beeching closed.

 

[4SRKT]

Sounds like people being keen to blame Privatisation for every single closure, much like Beeching. I wonder if one day there'll be an overlap, and Priviatisation will be blamed for something Beeching closed.

Far from causing closures, privatisation froze the railway in time. Closures/discontinuations are not always a bad thing, and the fact that there are fewer suggests an inertia was built into railway developments (of which closures are a part) by the model of privatisation adopted (not private ownership per se). Further evidence of inertia is that the timetable in use today is far more like the timetable of 1994 than the timetable of 1994 is like the timetable of 1985. Good old sluggish, undynamic BR, eh?

 

[ainsworth74]

Further evidence of inertia is that the timetable in use today is far more like the timetable of 1994 than the timetable of 1994 is like the timetable of 1985. Good old sluggish, undynamic BR, eh?

To damn right! Inefficient, undynamic, poor value for money, lack of innovation! BR needed to be privatised to deal with all these failings. Wait...

 

[Zoe]

In the early years of privatization though there were quite a few service improvements and in general things did appear to be looking up for the railways. A lot of this ended with Hatfield though and it may well be that Hatfield can be seen as the decisive event that resulted in the way the railways are today rather than privatization itself.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah I have to agree with you there Zoe, I was thinking about this today and to be honest in the period 1996-2000 privatisation was on the whole working quite well (apart from Railtrack). But in the ten+ years since things have just bogged down so badly that it does seem to me that we might well have been better off with BR. I suppose it might be an interesting what if to think about what might have happened without Hatfield.

 

[Schnellzug]

Funnily enough, that's exactly the opposite of how I'd put it. SWT was ghastly in the first few years after privatisation, but after a decent MD came to office & they began refurbishing rolling stock (and then got new stock), they improved drastically. Same with FGW; when they just had the Intercity services they were dreadful, which sadly not even a smart livery could redeem, and now, while some may critcise them, the stock is much better (particularly the refurbished 158s), and while performance may be patchy, it's still much better than it was. Really, I think the only grounds to criticise these days are the usual ones of fares & the running down of station facilities, but it really would take an optimist to imagine that BR would have, in the words of Barry Doe, done it so much better.

 

[Zoe]

Same with FGW; when they just had the Intercity services they were dreadful, which sadly not even a smart livery could redeem

In what way? I was a regular user of FGW until 2006 and didn't have much to complain about. It also didn't cost a fortune to turn up at the station and get a ticket for the next train to London. Back in the days of OPRAF quite a few of the TOCs had bold plans and introduced new services and changed timetables, just before Hatfield as I say things were starting to look quite good in general even if some of the TOCs like Connex South Central and SWT didn't have a very good start. It all changed after Hatfield though, the network descended into chaos with 20 mph TSRs in many locations and it took some time for the network to get back to normal and then the SRA and later DfT started to take more direct control of the railways.

 

[Schnellzug]

In what way? I was a regular user of FGW until 2006 and didn't have much to complain about.

After it was first privatised, for the first few years, it really was a rare event to find a Paddington train arrive on time into Bristol T.M.,at any rate. And Wales & West or whatever the name du jour was were struggling on with weary old unrefurbished 150s on everything, while the 158s were pretty tired as well. Wessex Trains did better when they began refurbishing the 150s (and hiring 31s ), but i do think FGW hve smartened things up grately, fashionable as it may be in some circles to dislike WorstGroup.

 

[the sniper]

It ran until 1995.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the info.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wish the network as operated by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway was still in existance. Many good transport links, such as Accrington to Manchester (yes, I am aware of the East Lancashire Railway), would be valuable today.