Who would ever pay this fare?

[Failed Unit]

I am currently looking to see if there are any AP's to travel down from Edinburgh - Leeds on 28th October at about 07:00.

XC trains at 0644 and 0705 both offer a fare at £81.50, so you are getting a worse ticket and paying more than the standard off-peak single which costs £76.50. I wonder what the score is here, hoping to con a few people into buying the more expensive ticket thinking the off-peak is not valid?

Can seem to find a price for using the 0700 and changing at Leeds onto TPE at all. :cry:

Anyone have any ideas how to avoid XC? otherwise it will be an off-peak return for me. Returning at 16:05.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry to answer my own question so quickly - I have found a solution by splitting at York,

0700 National Express Edinburgh York @ £15.15
Cheap day return York - Leeds £10.50
1756 National Express York - Edinburgh @ £13.00

One thing I noticed was that Edinburgh - York AP's are on £33.50 so it is cheaper even if you use them to split at York. Are XC ripping off unsuspecting Leeds passengers?

 

[Greenback]

Is the NXEC Advance, with online discount £20.45 for the 0800 departure, arriving Leeds at 1104 too late for you?

 

[Failed Unit]

Is the NXEC Advance, with online discount £20.45 for the 0800 departure, arriving Leeds at 1104 too late for you?

It is in this case, but the solution was simple with a split at York. I know - ATOC won't be happy with my abuse of the system. Thanks for your help Greenback.

 

[John @ home]

ATOC won't be happy with my abuse of the system.

Splitting tickets is not abusing the system.

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

John

 

[LondonLarry]

It is in this case, but the solution was simple with a split at York. I know - ATOC won't be happy with my abuse of the system. Thanks for your help Greenback.

If you find a split journey cheaper than the through fare, by all means use it. As long as your train stops at the stations your individual tickets are valid for, you're doing nothing wrong.

The fares structure in the UK is almost broke - we can thank the governement for that!

 

[clagmonster]

York-South Milford is valid via Leeds due to the group stations rule.
York-Micklefield-South Milford is 19 miles, which is only 1.3 miles longer (ie less than 3 miles longer) than York-Hambleton-Selby-South Milford at 17.7 miles. Therefore, as Micklefield is on a valid route, you are valid to double back through Micklefield, East Garforth, Garforth, Cross Gates and Leeds City as they all form part on the Leeds group. This should save you a couple of pounds compared to a York-Leeds day return.
Incidently, I had to look up the York-Selby milages in Quail, as they just aren't given in the NRT. I don't know what the correct procedure in this instance is.

 

[yorkie]

SOM tickets do not work the barriers in Leeds, but staff let you through. If anyone says you cannot break your journey there, tthen tell them they can follow you if they like (!) but they have to let you through the barrier to use station facilities - even going in Wetherspoons counts!

I've bought SOM tickets at Leeds before with no problems and the barrier staff let anyone through with anything that closely resembles a ticket so I don't think you'll have any problems. It is valid after all!

 

[John @ home]

I had to look up the York-Selby milages in Quail, as they just aren't given in the NRT. I don't know what the correct procedure in this instance is.

Very interesting. In other cases where no mileage is given in the Rail Timetable, such as walking between stations or using London Underground, the distance is taken to be zero.

On the other hand, Newark Castle - Newark Northgate seems to be taken as 10 miles and assumes that the reversal takes place at Collingham rather than just east of the junction.

The two possibilities appear to be that either it is measured as zero or it is measured by the shortest route which can be computed using the Rail Timetable.

I'll think about who we should ask and how we should frame the question.

John

 

[yorkie]

One thing I noticed was that Edinburgh - York AP's are on £33.50 so it is cheaper even if you use them to split at York. Are XC ripping off unsuspecting Leeds passengers?

XC charge a premium for certain longer distance journeys.

e.g. last week I looked at AP fares and the cheapest was £33 to Birmingham, £19 to Derby both singles. Yet a Derby to Birmingham return is only £11! Tamworth counted as Brum, and Burton counted as Derby. So the very short distance Burton-Tamworth carried a premium of £14 one way when the return fare is only £4.60. In any case, splitting the ticket at Sheffield and York to Derby is only £23 return walk on, only £4 more than they wanted for an AP single.

So it doesn't surprise me that Leeds is at a huge premium compared to York. They have to be competetive to York anyway or people will just use NXEC, and NXEC tickets can be cheaper if they are not with "connections".

 

[MCR247]

The odd thing is, I was looking for DBY-EDB with XC a while ago. BHM - EDB (£33.70!!) DBY - EDB (£193!) The with something like £8 to BHM, it could have saved us £140 odd if we went! This was for a group of 4 of us I think

 

[yorkie]

The odd thing is, I was looking for DBY-EDB with XC a while ago. BHM - EDB (£33.70!!) DBY - EDB (£193!) The with something like £8 to BHM, it could have saved us £140 odd if we went! This was for a group of 4 of us I think

That is very odd. Was that back in the days of VirginXC by any chance? There were identical departures from BHM at xx03 (IIRC) to Edinburgh, one via the ECML and one via the WCML? That's the only thing I can think of to explain it, unless Derby hadn't been released as a point for AP tickets on that service, that is theoretically possible. The higher fare would be a walk-on ticket.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've also noticed the far cheaper AP tickets Birmingham-Edinburgh on XC, compared to XC intermediate stations along the ECML route and simply put it down to XC wanting to directly compete with VT on the xx20 (even hours) departures BHM-EDB via PRE.

 

[MCR247]

No, it was CrossCountry looking for late July 2009 at about the end of April

 

[yorkie]

I've also noticed the far cheaper AP tickets Birmingham-Edinburgh on XC, compared to XC intermediate stations along the ECML route and simply put it down to XC wanting to directly compete with VT on the xx20 (even hours) departures BHM-EDB via PRE.

That must be it. It's about 40 miles further on XC and the trains are much more 'express' on the WCML (not stopping Stafford, Oxenholme, Lockerbie and less stations generally) versus zig-zagging across Yorkshire to serve Leeds and calling at small places like Durham and Alnmouth.... and you don't get a shop!

 

[maddeningcrowds]

'via Harrogate' will often get you the connection to Leeds on the advanced purchase ticket from Edinburgh. When the ticket arrives it just says +connections so I assume you don't actually have to travel via Harrogate.