Whitlocks End to Lapworth

[Goatboy]

Hi all,

I can't get the journey planners to give me sensible itineraries between these two stations on a Saturday evening (or at any time really). There is the occasional convenient 47 minute journey but the majority are 1.5-2 hour journeys with 2 changes and long waits. Irritating given they are only 6 miles apart (But of course on different lines).

This is bizarre as both stations are circa 20 minutes from Birmingham with frequent service - infact I can manually put together an itinerary with a simple change at Snow Hill that takes no more than an hour.

Is there a reason why none of the journey planners will give me via Birmingham routes? The ticket available on this route is an 'Any Permitted' rather a 'Not Via Birmingham' so what is it about this route that is prohibited - presumably the double back between Tysley and Snow Hill?

What is the most cost effective way of making this journey?

Thanks!

 

[matt]

Is it because of the double back between Tyseley and Birmingham and the fact that not all LM services stop at Tyseley?

 

[Goatboy]

Yes, just spotted that on the map. Irritating - you'd think there would be an easement or something given that it's a logical route and it massively increases the available journey options and reduces journey times.

Is there a better ticket option than a single from Whitlocks End to Birmingham Snow Hill and a single from Snow Hill to Lapworth?

 

[Romilly]

A Wilmcote-Birmingham Stations anytime/offpeak day return (depending on whether you can meet the morning & afternoon time restrictions) should cover you (at £8.40/£6.70).

 

[bb21]

Of course this journey used to be permitted via Birmingham on direct trains to/from Moor Street, until they made Tyseley a Routeing Point, thus allowing travel that way every two hours at least, matching the service patterns at Lapworth.

Perhaps you would like to FoI the DfT when permission via Birmingham was withdrawn?

 

[kieron]

What is the most cost effective way of making this journey?

If you don't like the interchange at Tyseley at your chosen time, you could print out a copy of page F7 of the "national routeing guide in details" and take a train via Wilmcote or Stratford. I don't know if the times would suit you, of course.

As Lapworth has much fewer options than Dorridge or Hatton for journeys to the Birmingham-Stratford line, I can see the benefit of an easement or a "via Birmingham" ticket being created.

 

[clagmonster]

If you don't like the interchange at Tyseley at your chosen time, you could print out a copy of page F7 of the "national routeing guide in details" and take a train via Wilmcote or Stratford. I don't know if the times would suit you, of course.

Note the following line at the very top of section F:
"(examples do not use current Routing Guide data)"
http://iblocks-rg-publication.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/nrg_detail.pdf
Thus assuming your plan is, as I think it is, to take that page as having Birmingham as a common routeing point, I don't think it will work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think this is one for the disputed route procedure. I don't see any reason why going via Birmingham even has been unreasonable and, not that it matters, don't see that it creates any anomoly.

 

[OwlMan]

You could get the S3 bus (hourly) from Whitlock End Station to Solihull Station (approx. 30 minutes journey time) and then the train to Lapworth.

 

[wellwhatitis]

A Wilmcote-Birmingham Stations anytime/offpeak day return (depending on whether you can meet the morning & afternoon time restrictions) should cover you (at £8.40/£6.70).

Only if the train stops at Wilmcote remember!

Alternatively, since you say it would be Saturday and therefore off peak, buy a NWM Daytripper for £6.40 and a single/return from Dorridge to Lapworth at £1.50/£1.60. That way you can change wherever you like. The Daytripper also covers you on buses should you get stuck.

If it's after 6.30pm you can get the Evening Super Off Peak Single/return from Whitlocks to Dorridge at £2.30/£2.40 then the Dorridge to Lapworth ticket.

 

[kieron]

Thus assuming your plan is, as I think it is, to take that page as having Birmingham as a common routeing point, I don't think it will work.

Sorry, should have made it clearer that I was referring to Stratford upon Avon there (Stratford happens to be a common routeing point for Whitlocks End and Lapworth).

It's not actually a useful suggestion, though, as I've since realised that no trains run to Stratford via Lapworth at the weekend, only Monday-Friday.

Only if the train stops at Wilmcote remember!

I don't believe Romilly's suggestion was to pass through Wilmcote at all on the train.

 

[wellwhatitis]

I don't believe Romilly's suggestion was to pass through Wilmcote at all on the train.

No I know that, but if it doesn't stop there his ticket wouldn't be valid.

 

[kieron]

No I know that, but if it doesn't stop there his ticket wouldn't be valid.

You have accepted that you do not need to catch a train which calls at Wilmcote during the journey in order to use a Wilmcote-Birmingham stations return.

Wilmcote is a member of Stratford-upon-Avon group.
Birmingham stations is a set of members of Birmingham group.

The mapped routes between Stratford-upon-Avon group and Birmingham group are:
Stratford group - Warwick group - Lapworth - Tyseley - Birmingham group
Stratford group - Whitlocks End - Tyseley - Birmingham group

I can't see any relevant negative easements for this route.

There is no break of journey restriction on any Wilmcote-Birmingham ticket.

From this I conclude that you do not need to catch a train which stops at Wilmcote either before or after your journey.

 

[wellwhatitis]

You have accepted that you do not need to catch a train which calls at Wilmcote during the journey in order to use a Wilmcote-Birmingham stations return.

Wilmcote is a member of Stratford-upon-Avon group.
Birmingham stations is a set of members of Birmingham group.

The mapped routes between Stratford-upon-Avon group and Birmingham group are:
Stratford group - Warwick group - Lapworth - Tyseley - Birmingham group
Stratford group - Whitlocks End - Tyseley - Birmingham group

I can't see any relevant negative easements for this route.

There is no break of journey restriction on any Wilmcote-Birmingham ticket.

From this I conclude that you do not need to catch a train which stops at Wilmcote either before or after your journey.

Wow. You've totally lost me here.

 

[LowLevel]

In a nutshell - you could theoretically have got on a train at Wilmcote that stops at Whitlock's End, broke your journey there and continued on a train that calls at Whitlock's End but didn't call at Wilmcote. The fact you didn't is neither here nor there as it's a valid route there's nothing preventing you starting your journey further down the line with the same ticket.