Whitland level crossing crash

[Rhydgaled]

However, I must say that I am a bit sad that this unit looks like it will be a write-off. The Coradia fleet is small enough (27 before this incident), and as a fan of these units, I'm gutted.

I'm not particularly fond of the 175s, to work on or indeed to use as a pax. I hope 175002 can be repaired. Don't fancy working a 150 to HHD any time soon!!

I'm no fan of 175s either, very boring looking trains and not particularly special to travel on either (but better in some respects than some trains). However, since the only likely alternative is a class 150 (since ATW refuse to use their LHCS without government funding) turning up on a long distance service the loss of this 175 will mean very inappropriate rolling stock.

I was working out of Whitland last week, and whilst waiting for the taxi after stabling the train, the crossing went down for what turned out to be a pair of trains from either direction.

Could you clarify that statment please? The way I've interpreted it, you are a train driver for ATW and parked (stabled) the train you were driving at Whitland at the end of your shift and signed off work. However, this clashes completely with the information I've gained from this and other rail fourms that the only stabling point for trains and staffing depot (sign on/off point) for ATW drivers west of Swansea is Carmarthen.

ATW apparently ran a shuttle service from Clarbeston Road to Milford Haven because of the line blockage. Does anyone know if one line was cleared so they could get a unit in and out of the far-west or was the unit running the shuttle the one that would have been at Fishguard to run the 09:56 at the time of the crash and was hence trapped west of Whitland? If so, and given my ealier point that, to my knowlage, there's no staff depot west of Carmarthen, does anyone know what arangments were made to staff the train and stable it overnight?

 

[richw]

ATW apparently ran a shuttle service from Clarbeston Road to Milford Haven because of the line blockage. Does anyone know if one line was cleared so they could get a unit in and out of the far-west or was the unit running the shuttle the one that would have been at Fishguard to run the 09:56 at the time of the crash and was hence trapped west of Whitland? If so, and given my ealier point that, to my knowlage, there's no staff depot west of Carmarthen, does anyone know what arangments were made to staff the train and stable it overnight?

And in addition to this what about refuelling facilities, as obviously the trapped unit will need fuel at some point.


Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[Donny Dave]

Could you clarify that statment please? The way I've interpreted it, you are a train driver for ATW and parked (stabled) the train you were driving at Whitland at the end of your shift and signed off work. However, this clashes completely with the information I've gained from this and other rail fourms that the only stabling point for trains and staffing depot (sign on/off point) for ATW drivers west of Swansea is Carmarthen.

I do believe (open to correction) that Hydro is a driver of the various test trains that roam the network.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

And in addition to this what about refuelling facilities, as obviously the trapped unit will need fuel at some point.

Can't they use a fuel tanker?

 

[OxtedL]

I do believe (open to correction) that Hydro is a driver of the various test trains that roam the network.

I think engineer(?) but again, waiting for him to come back. Definitely a yellow train person.

 

[CambrianFan]

Any idea where 002 will be going to get fixed?

 

[trainspotter]

Any idea where 002 will be going to get fixed?

Sorry never asked the guys as thet where taking down a fence/gate to get the trailer through!

 

[Crossover]

I have to say that looking at the pictures, I reckon it will be more of an inconvenience for ATW having a set out of service rather than a complete loss. Of course, it could be harbouring more damage but it looks like it may just be a front end rebuild.

Main thing was everyone came out of it OK

 

[Flamingo]

My workplace hazard training was extremely comprehensive and covered road and rail accidents. The most important rule was emphasised as follows: "In the event of fire or smoke, or any reasonable suspicion of fire or smoke, immediately leave the vehicle by the safest available exit" or something very similar.

I fail to see how several tanks of diesel, a lorry load of hay and a lot of trailer and battery cables would not equate to a reasonable suspicion of fire after a train crash has happened. It must be possible to evacuate a train onto the verge, rather than the adjacent track. In addition, as far as I know, the train driver would make the signallers aware of the incident as soon as possible, and they could issue an emergency brake request to trains that were dangerously close to an accident site. Once again, forgive me if I'm wrong.

Railway training (best opinion after approximately 200 years worth of train crashes) is that linear evacuation into adjoining carriages is the primary evacuation method, passengers are only to be evacuated onto the track as a last resort and if in IMMEDIATE danger.

As said, passengers may wander off, especially if in shock, if in carriages they are shielded from the elements, and there may be other hazards such as live electrical wires, not only from overhead or 3rd rail systems, but also electric shock hazard from signalling cables uncovered by the accident, for example.

Trains run on diesel, not petrol, so the risk off fuel igniting is quite low, compared with an RTA for example.

Every incident is different, and a learning experience, part of the reason the RAIB do such detailed investigations. The recommendations for best practice from those who investigate is that passengers stay on board - that's good enough for me, and I'm potentially the one at the sharp end if it does happen.

 

[trainspotter]

I have to say that looking at the pictures, I reckon it will be more of an inconvenience for ATW having a set out of service rather than a complete loss. Of course, it could be harbouring more damage but it looks like it may just be a front end rebuild.

Main thing was everyone came out of it OK

If you look at the side cab shot, all that front steel work on the sole bar must have took all the impact at the speed it was rolling at!

 

[Michael.Y]

However, since the only likely alternative is a class 150 (since ATW refuse to use their LHCS without government funding) turning up on a long distance service the loss of this 175 will mean very inappropriate rolling stock.

Why not 158s?

 

[anthony263]

Why not 158s?

They could use 158's which do appear from time to time on the Milford Haven/Carmarthen - Manchester services s well as on the Maesteg - Cheltenham & Cardiff - Holyhead services.

I haven't seen a 158 work the Cardiff - Fishguard boat train service for over a year now even though I agree that it is more suitable than a class 150.

Hopefully the WG will try to get more 158's from Scotrail when they become available following electrification work in 2015/2016

 

[Rhydgaled]

Why not 158s?

ATW have a surplus of 150s, they do not have a surplus of anything else, so it is likely that a 150 will turn up on another service they are very inapropriate for now that 175002 is out of service.

They could of course stick one of their surplus 150s on the Maesteg line to free up a 158 that is running a class 150 sort of service, and use the 158 to cover for the lost 175. However, since they don't do this for regular services:

I haven't seen a 158 work the Cardiff - Fishguard boat train service for over a year now even though I agree that it is more suitable than a class 150.

I doubt they'll do it now either.

They certainly seem to have surplus 150s, so why haven't they stuck one on the Maesteg as I suggested and use the 158 to run the Fishguard express boat train. Then the 150 that currently goes to Fishguard could be used to bring Cardiff - Cheltenham up to hourly except for one two hour gap before the Fishguard unit is available.

So, can anyone answer this:

ATW apparently ran a shuttle service from Clarbeston Road to Milford Haven because of the line blockage. Does anyone know if one line was cleared so they could get a unit in and out of the far-west or was the unit running the shuttle the one that would have been at Fishguard to run the 09:56 at the time of the crash and was hence trapped west of Whitland? If so, and given my ealier point that, to my knowlage, there's no staff depot west of Carmarthen, does anyone know what arangments were made to staff the train and stable it overnight?

 

[ValleyLines142]

They certainly seem to have surplus 150s, so why haven't they stuck one on the Maesteg as I suggested and use the 158 to run the Fishguard express boat train. Then the 150 that currently goes to Fishguard could be used to bring Cardiff - Cheltenham up to hourly except for one two hour gap before the Fishguard unit is available.

There are more 150s than 158s on the Maesteg line to be honest, I travel to Pontyclun quite regularly and I usually have a 150 on the route. So 158s should be free anyway. A lot of them are sat idle in Canton depot as well, I see them when I pass on the City Line.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

So, can anyone answer this:

....Does anyone know if one line was cleared so they could get a unit in and out of the far-west or was the unit running the shuttle the one that would have been at Fishguard to run the 09:56 at the time of the crash and was hence trapped west of Whitland? If so, and given my ealier point that, to my knowlage, there's no staff depot west of Carmarthen, does anyone know what arangments were made to staff the train and stable it overnight?

I have no idea about the unit or fueling facilities (although a tanker truck sounds feasible), but if there is a driver depot close, they could taxi the driver to the first available station to take the service, or if there are drivers that live out that way, they might allow remote booking on somewhere.

 

[Hydro]

I think engineer(?) but again, waiting for him to come back. Definitely a yellow train person.

Yes, engineer. We use P3 at Whitland for stabling on one of the 950 diagrams.

 

[sonorguy]

That's a very good point, I hadn't thought of that! I suppose it's surprising how heavy a hay bale can be, certainly a lot heavier than I would have imagined if they've done that much damage. From the various different views it certainly appears that the main body structure is fine, just the shattered cab. I dread to think what the farmer's insurance bill will be this time, the last one who damaged a 175 wasn't happy and that was nothing compared to this!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A sadly famous example if their weight is the death of Mike Edwards, the ELO cello player whose van oas crushed by one of these bales when it rolled down a hill and over a hedge. They're surprisingly heavy things.

 

[142094]

A sadly famous example if their weight is the death of Mike Edwards, the ELO cello player whose van oas crushed by one of these bales when it rolled down a hill and over a hedge. They're surprisingly heavy things.

Even heavier when wet - not sure how much weight in water a dry bale will absorb but I bet it is a hefty amount.

 

[Wyvern]

I think they are not supposed to absorb water or they'll go rotten

 

[Pacerpilot]

ATW apparently ran a shuttle service from Clarbeston Road to Milford Haven because of the line blockage. Does anyone know if one line was cleared so they could get a unit in and out of the far-west or was the unit running the shuttle the one that would have been at Fishguard to run the 09:56 at the time of the crash and was hence trapped west of Whitland? If so, and given my ealier point that, to my knowlage, there's no staff depot west of Carmarthen, does anyone know what arangments were made to staff the train and stable it overnight?

It was a 153 that was trapped on the other site of the blockage. It was stabled in the yard at Haverfordwest and crews booked to work Milford services were taxied to Haverfordwest/Clarby Rd to work the shuttles

 

[83G/84D]

That doesn't necessarily equate to detraining a train load of passengers into a potentially live railway environment.

I was a passenger on the 1835 ex Paddington a few years ago (1995?) when the 1830 Paddington to Swansea ahead of us was involved in an incident on the outskirts of London.

The front power car's fuel tank became loose and dropped towards the track causing fuel to escape and ignite. The smoke entered the carriages at the front of the train and several people pannicked and jumped from the train onto the lines when the train stopped.

Sadly one person who did this was struck and killed by a London bound service as all trains services had not at this stage been halted.

In case of any emergency situation on a train I would recommend following the instructions of the traincrew and remain calm.

 

[142094]

I think they are not supposed to absorb water or they'll go rotten

If they haven't been on the shrink-wrap machine then they will absorb water, which as you say isn't a good thing.

 

[Flamingo]

I was a passenger on the 1835 ex Paddington a few years ago (1995?) when the 1830 Paddington to Swansea ahead of us was involved in an incident on the outskirts of London.

The front power car's fuel tank became loose and dropped towards the track causing fuel to escape and ignite. The smoke entered the carriages at the front of the train and several people pannicked and jumped from the train onto the lines when the train stopped.

Sadly one person who did this was struck and killed by a London bound service as all trains services had not at this stage been halted.

In case of any emergency situation on a train I would recommend following the instructions of the traincrew and remain calm.

This sad incident gets told to us in training as an example of what can go wrong.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It was a 153 that was trapped on the other site of the blockage. It was stabled in the yard at Haverfordwest and crews booked to work Milford services were taxied to Haverfordwest/Clarby Rd to work the shuttles

Thanks. Were they able to clean the interior of the unit at all? I expect not, but that aside this shows that the (almost) ECS moves out from Carmarthen to the ends of the Pembrokeshire branches in the mornings aren't really as necessary as some make out. A taxi might cost almost as much as running an empty train, but surely if ATW purchased a economical road vehicle to get staff to the extremeties that would be cheaper than running an empty train?

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, engineer. We use P3 at Whitland for stabling on one of the 950 diagrams.

A Yellow train person! I like that! I guees the 950 doesnt take fuel at Whitland? (i drive a desk in an office! )

Wont ATW just road tanker fuel in to a suitable spot? Haverfordwest perhaps? Wont they, if needed, just road out any units that need maintenance etc during the period of any blockage?


I assume the line is now open anyway ( i am off work so not paying much attention!)

 

[Hydro]

A Yellow train person! I like that! I guees the 950 doesnt take fuel at Whitland? (i drive a desk in an office! )

No, that diagram usually has fuelling done at Barton Hill when it goes back up to Bristol. Whitland just ensures the train is well weathered and battered.

 

[DarloRich]

thought so! Whitland always seems to be a LONG way from anywhere! ( i had to visit the siding there recently !)

 

[trainspotter]

All fixed now!!!!

Sorry!!!

002 seen here before she hit that hay trailer!!!!

 

[Rhydgaled]

All fixed now!!!!

What's fixed? 175002? If so, that was quick!

 

[trainspotter]

What's fixed? 175002? If so, that was quick!

Just playin with you! LOL