Whitland level crossing crash

[GearJammer]

BBC reporting that the lorry driver has been arrested under suspicion of endangering safety.

Thats only procedure, so then anything he says can be used in evidence! Don't read to much into that.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Obviously everyone needs to wait until all the facts come out but in relation the simple reason people usually straight away blame the Car/Van/Lorry involved in instances like this is because 99/100 its their fault, the safeguards for a train make it very hard for a train to continue through a level crossing after a red Signal as the TPWS would automatically put the brakes on, it would have to be manually over ridden by the driver

 

[bnm]

Maybe 98/100. Another option is that it can be neither the fault of the driver of the road vehicle or the train driver/signals. The crossing itself may be faulty or may be being operated by a crossing keeper in an unsafe manner.

 

[neonison]

Secondly I can't help wondering why AHBs don't have a safeguard by which unless the barriers are completely closed at both ends the signal doesn't turn green for the train?
Dave

Essentially because it would slow train operation.
The operation of AHB and AOC crossings is dependent on road users obeying the signals.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe 98/100. Another option is that it can be neither the fault of the driver of the road vehicle or the train driver/signals. The crossing itself may be faulty or may be being operated by a crossing keeper in an unsafe manner.

As in indeed Moreton-on-Lugg and Lydney.

 

[newbie babs]

Up to 60 people were on the crowded service between Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire, and Manchester when it hit a farm vehicle carrying bales of hay at 9.50am.

It is believed a barrier came down on top of the lorry after it had gone through the level-crossing at 9.50am, trapping it across the railway tracks


The driver was unable to stop the train, which was travelling at 50mph, in time after spotting the lorry stuck on the crossing at Whitland, Carmarthenshire, police said.
Passengers told how commuters screamed in terror as the train suddenly slammed on its emergency brakes, before they felt a sharp impact

Police said they are looking into the causes of the accident.

'An investigation is under way into the cause of the collision, including how the vehicle came to be on the tracks, and the Rail Accident Investigation Branch has been notified.'
Arriva Trains Wales said replacement buses are running with all train services on the line west of Carmarthen being stopped.

 

[Tomnick]

Secondly I can't help wondering why AHBs don't have a safeguard by which unless the barriers are completely closed at both ends the signal doesn't turn green for the train? Presumably the crossing might now be converted from AHB into MCB + CCTV controlled from Whitland, about 1 mile east, but in the meantime this sort of thing only makes the idiocies of not having gate boxes a lot clearer.

If you're going to maintain the protecting signal at Danger until the barriers are proved down, then the barriers are going to have to go down minutes before the train arrives, rather than less than thirty seconds. In many cases, additional signals would need to be provided (as the nearest can be many miles away) at great expense. All that effort won't achieve much, as a common cause of accidents at AHBs is traffic weaving around the barriers, which the above proposal won't prevent (indeed, if the barriers are going to be down for that much longer, there'll be more chance of motorists getting fed up).

The other possibility is to convert all AHBs into full barrier crossings, which need to be monitored to ensure that the crossing is clear once the barriers are down but before the protecting signal is cleared, which in turn means a greatly increased staffing cost (as one Signalman can only monitor a certain number of crossings) as well as the very significant initial resignalling cost. Although the possibility of monitoring such crossings using obstacle detection equipment makes this slightly more feasible, it's worth remembering that a good few rural routes would surely have closed if the staffing costs hadn't been drastically reduced by automating numerous level crossings (look at Boston - Skegness, which had been reduced to a single shift to keep costs down, prior to conversion of some crossings to AHBs - and compare with Sleaford - Spalding, which is to this day only open for a single shift for the same reason).

I'd be most surprised if, as you suggest, this crossing is converted from AHB to CCTV solely because of one accident - there have been dozens of similar accidents over the years, and very few crossings have been converted!

 

[Hydro]

I was working out of Whitland last week, and whilst waiting for the taxi after stabling the train, the crossing went down for what turned out to be a pair of trains from either direction. The barriers went down for a long time before either train arrived. Much, much longer than 30 seconds. Which train hit the strike in point first, I do not know (the one heading towards Milford Haven, which would travel over the crossing first before stopping, or the one travelling away from Milford Haven, which stopped before crossing.) It seemed to me that a train from either direction would trigger the barriers well in advance of 30 seconds. Even taking off the time for a train to slow for a stop at Whitland, the barriers were down for a long time.

 

[Pacerpilot]

Thats a different level crossing Hydro, the one involved was Llanboidy AHB, 3/4 of a mile or so west of Whitland.

 

[Hydro]

Thats a different level crossing Hydro, the one involved was Llanboidy AHB, 3/4 of a mile or so west of Whitland.

I getcha, I was re-thinking and getting a bit confused as I'm sure there's a box by Whitland Xing!

 

[Pacerpilot]

Yeah the bobby operates the one at the station, and well in advance for Down trains. Its usually lowered for Up train whilst the train is in the platform, if its on time.

 

[neonison]

...the crossing went down for what turned out to be a pair of trains from either direction. The barriers went down for a long time before either train arrived. Much, much longer than 30 seconds...

What has been quoted on here is that "the barriers came down on the road vehicle" which would, if true, suggest that the driver of the road vehicle entered the crossing at the beginning of the sequence rather than zig-zagging around the barriers once they were down. Though road users do some pretty stupid things it beggars belief that someone would attempt to zig-zag in an articulated vehicle or one towing a trailer?

 

[Hydro]

What has been quoted on here is that "the barriers came down on the road vehicle" which would, if true, suggest that the driver of the road vehicle entered the crossing at the beginning of the sequence rather than zig-zagging around the barriers once they were down. Though road users do some pretty stupid things it beggars belief that someone would attempt to zig-zag in an articulated vehicle or one towing a trailer?

Re-read the above posts mate, I was getting confused with a different crossing! I can't say anything about the crossing in question involved in the incident.

 

[142094]

Sure most, if not all, AHB crossings say that those in charge of a slow moving or abnormally-loaded wagon/trailer have to phone the signaller before using the crossing?

 

[GB]

Yes, and its a mandatory requirement.

 

[142094]

Thought it was. Although with the sewage tanker was hit by the 156 at Sudbury, we all know that even if it is mandatory, it still doesn't mean people will do so.

 

[OuterDistant]

Here's an example of the definitions for "large" or "slow".

 

[jonesy3001]

Just seen the article on the sun website, think 175002 might end up in a scrapyard it looks a right mess, unless arriva send it away for repair;
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4008718/Three-hurt-as-train-hits-hay-lorry.html

 

[Oswyntail]

Just seen the article on the sun website, think 175002 might end up in a scrapyard it looks a right mess, unless arriva send it away for repair;
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4008718/Three-hurt-as-train-hits-hay-lorry.html

Given the mess, it is a fine testament to the train-makers art that the crumple zone seems to have absorbed the energy as designed, and the basic train has stayed upright an on track. The driver seems to have been very lucky - and/or perhaps well protected.

 

[andypops]

Of course my primary concern is that all the passengers, guard and (especially) the driver escaped with their lives. This obviously shouldn't have happened, and I will await the RAIB report.

However, I must say that I am a bit sad that this unit looks like it will be a write-off. The Coradia fleet is small enough (27 before this incident), and as a fan of these units, I'm gutted. After the Moreton accident (fatal car vs train, signalling error), it only looked like a few bits of broken plastic. Even the Kidwelly (collision with a farm trailer @ 50 MPH) didn't look so catestrophic. But this looks pretty total, in my very uninformed opinion.

What'll happen if the front carriage is written off? Would the rear carriage be kept in Chester to deputise for any other damaged cars?

Still, I am very glad all those travelling on the service escaped with their lives. At the end of the day, that's the most important thing, and my concern about the unit is simply as an enthusiast.


Andy

 

[headshot119]

Of course my primary concern is that all the passengers, guard and (especially) the driver escaped with their lives. This obviously shouldn't have happened, and I will await the RAIB report.

However, I must say that I am a bit sad that this unit looks like it will be a write-off. The Coradia fleet is small enough (27 before this incident), and as a fan of these units, I'm gutted. After the Moreton accident (fatal car vs train, signalling error), it only looked like a few bits of broken plastic. Even the Kidwelly (collision with a farm trailer @ 50 MPH) didn't look so catestrophic. But this looks pretty total, in my very uninformed opinion.

What'll happen if the front carriage is written off? Would the rear carriage be kept in Chester to deputise for any other damaged cars?

Still, I am very glad all those travelling on the service escaped with their lives. At the end of the day, that's the most important thing, and my concern about the unit is simply as an enthusiast.


Andy

I doubt they'd scrap the back coach, then again I reckon they'll rebuild it. It would be a shame to see her scrapped I haven't had her for haulage* It's a testament to the design that the driver has not been killed. My thoughts are with the injured, especially the staff involved in the incident.


*Tounge in Cheek.

 

[Railsigns]

Secondly I can't help wondering why AHBs don't have a safeguard by which unless the barriers are completely closed at both ends the signal doesn't turn green for the train?

I don't think you've quite grasped the concept of an automatic level crossing. They operate independently of the signalling system so that road closure times can be kept to a minimum. If there's something stuck on the crossing when the barriers come down, it's usually too late to do anything about it before the train arrives. Manually controlled level crossings are a different matter altogether.

 

[driver9000]

The front end of a 175 is fibre glass and designed to be a crumple zone. From the few photographs released it looks to have done its job. I'm by no means a rolling stock engineering expert but I think cries of the vehicle being scrapped based on the smashed fibre glass are a little premature. The cab door looks to have opened normally too!

 

[WatcherZero]

50mph and with the difference in weight of the two objects most energy should have been transmitted to the hay truck. Right about the crumple zone but the way the carriage shape has been twisted may indicate structural compromise that would make it unfit to return to duty.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm pleased that no-one was seriously hurt. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured.

I'm also impressed that the train didn't derail. Good design,

 

[driver9000]

I don't see any twist in the main bodywork of the coach going by the photographs posted in the online news reports. Unless you have seen photos I haven't or I'm not looking hard enough. Going on the photos I've seen the damage looks to be confined to the cab area and worse has been returned to traffic.

 

[Michael.Y]

I'm not particularly fond of the 175s, to work on or indeed to use as a pax. But, credit where credit's due, that design has worked wonders. No surprise really as it shares the same build quality as a Pendolino, which coped so well at Grayrigg.

I hope 175002 can be repaired. Don't fancy working a 150 to HHD any time soon!!

 

[ukrob]

50mph and with the difference in weight of the two objects most energy should have been transmitted to the hay truck. Right about the crumple zone but the way the carriage shape has been twisted may indicate structural compromise that would make it unfit to return to duty.

It was doing 50mph before the emergency brakes were applied. The collision speed would have been slower.

I agree with a post above, it is very premature to say it is a write off. It looks a mess, but it is only superficial damage to the cab. Even the cab door is ok.

Of course it will need to be examined in great detail for any problems with structural integrity - but it looks like the crumple zone did its job to me.

 

[Michael.Y]

Given that these trains are 10 years old, how easy would it be to source (say for example) a replacement front nose? Do the fibreglass mouldings still exist at Washwood Heath?

 

[BestWestern]

Given that these trains are 10 years old, how easy would it be to source (say for example) a replacement front nose? Do the fibreglass mouldings still exist at Washwood Heath?

It's not a major problem to rebuild/replace a cab, just a major job. It's been done plenty of times over recent years; the 156 which hit the the sewage lorry, the 158 which hit the fallen footbridge a while back (very severe damage) and the HST power car which hit a fallen tree at Lavington and suffered and completely shattered cab structure. The overall body shell of the 175 looks pretty straight in the Sun photos, and as others have said it would appear that the crumple zone has functioned to it's desired effect. Curiously, it appears as if the primary impact was at cab roof level, which is rather odd for a collision with a road vehicle, and this seems to have forced the whole structure downwards making the damage appear to be more serious than usual in these cases.

 

[Michael.Y]

It's not a major problem to rebuild/replace a cab, just a major job. It's been done plenty of times over recent years; the 156 which hit the the sewage lorry, the 158 which hit the fallen footbridge a while back (very severe damage) and the HST power car which hit a fallen tree at Lavington and suffered and completely shattered cab structure. The overall body shell of the 175 looks pretty straight in the Sun photos, and as others have said it would appear that the crumple zone has functioned to it's desired effect. Curiously, it appears as if the primary impact was at cab roof level, which is rather odd for a collision with a road vehicle, and this seems to have forced the whole structure downwards making the damage appear to be more serious than usual in these cases.

There's a side on view on the Mail article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ollides-hay-lorry-trapped-level-crossing.html

and at the Wales Online page
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-with-train-at-level-crossing-91466-29978275/