Which Union?

[MacRae13]

On the other side of the coin though would you be happy for non union members to negotiate their own pay rises even if that meant they would get a bigger pay rise than you?

Just how likely is it that an un(dis??)organised and fragmented section of a workforce, a small section at that, will negotiate a better deal than a larger section with union representation? Maybe there's examples of this, I don't know - but I'm sure it's not common in any way. So I'm inclined to think you're just playing devils advocate and proposing a possible situation, which is fair enough mate.

Really, to evolve your thought further, these non members would naturally group together themselves - and there we have the makings of their own union?

To answer your question - yes, I would be happy for that to happen, if it's all been a fair process and not political manoeuvring by the employer. I would then need to ask myself why that's happened and my union hasn't done better for me.

But to recap - for me, it's not a realistically common proposition that you're suggesting.

 

[Mintona]

I'm a member of ASLEF, although I seem to be in a minority at my depot. A lot of others are in RMT or no union at all. Personally though I wouldn't dream of not being in one.

 

[Clip]

Just how likely is it that an un(dis??)organised and fragmented section of a workforce, a small section at that, will negotiate a better deal than a larger section with union representation? Maybe there's examples of this, I don't know - but I'm sure it's not common in any way. So I'm inclined to think you're just playing devils advocate and proposing a possible situation, which is fair enough mate.

Really, to evolve your thought further, these non members would naturally group together themselves - and there we have the makings of their own union?

To answer your question - yes, I would be happy for that to happen, if it's all been a fair process and not political manoeuvring by the employer. I would then need to ask myself why that's happened and my union hasn't done better for me.

But to recap - for me, it's not a realistically common proposition that you're suggesting.

It probably is very unlikely to ever arise on the railway and the only reason for it never to happen is that the Unions would not allow it to happen for fear of getting a lesser deal for their membership than non union members.

Its no solution, just merely pointing out that collective bargaining is either for all - both members and non members - or its not. You cant have it both ways and moan about people not joining the union and therefore possibly not striking over a pay dispute but still getting the benefits, IF the union is also going to moan about non collective bargaining and non union staff negotiating their own pay.


And, as I have said elsewhere the new RMT poster about calling non union staff 'Freeloaders' over this issue smacks of the bullying that they claim not to like to happen to their members.

Cant have your cake and eat it.

 

[Beveridges]

Just out of curiosity Bev does your DTM cover all drivers or just MDDs? Wasn't sure how it worked on your side.

Yes he covers both.
It's strange because the DTM is from the Operations Dept yet MDD's are from the Engineering Dept. So the DTM is not our "line manager" that role goes to the depot production manager who is not competant on driving so cannot asses us on it. In fact none of the Engineering Dept managers can drive, as they used to all be fitters.
DTM's just do a quick rideout on our side, just a shunt and a prep, a few OTDR downloads and thats it.
They have nothing to do with the fuelling, etc, and the other maintenance tasks that MDD's do.

 

[TDK]

Yes he covers both.
It's strange because the DTM is from the Operations Dept yet MDD's are from the Engineering Dept. So the DTM is not our "line manager" that role goes to the depot production manager who is not competant on driving so cannot asses us on it. In fact none of the Engineering Dept managers can drive, as they used to all be fitters.
DTM's just do a quick rideout on our side, just a shunt and a prep, a few OTDR downloads and thats it.
They have nothing to do with the fuelling, etc, and the other maintenance tasks that MDD's do.

Just through interest, is it a requirement that you enter your details into the OTDR on every occasion when you are driving form any cab?

 

[CatfordCat]

As I understand it you can actually write to the union stating you don't wish any portion of your fees to be used to fund political parties. Think one of our guys might even have had a rebate on this, but not sure. That reminds me... Must write a letter...

Just to clarify, all trade union members have the right to opt out of paying into the union's "political fund" - I think it's as simple as a tick box on the form when you join, but you do have the right to opt out (and probably to opt in) at a later date if you change your mind.

Not all trade unions' political funds go to a political party - some use it for campaigning on issues their members are likely to be interested in, e.g. against cuts, against changes to employment protection law. Such arguments are not exclusively against governments led by the conservative party.

Such campaigning still has to be funded by the 'political fund' even if it's not specifically a party political fund.

Some unions (e.g. UNISON) have two political funds, one affiliated to the labour party, one non-affiliated campaigning fund - this is for historic reasons following the merger of NALGO (non affiliated) and NUPE (affiliated) and COHSE (not sure which it was) - I believe new members can choose which, if either, to pay into.

Personally, I think it's a tad naive to assume that what goes on in politics (either at national or local level) has nothing to do with your job - at its most extreme, national or local government policy can influence whether you have a job at all, and what rights you might have in employment.

And not all unions are affiliated to the labour party. The RMT no longer is. From very brief research (and I may be wrong, I'm not an RMT member) it sounds as though local branches may choose to contribute to other political parties.

 

[Beveridges]

Just through interest, is it a requirement that you enter your details into the OTDR on every occasion when you are driving form any cab?

Yes unless the OTDR is knackered which some of them are when moving units that undergoing heavy repair

If the shunt move requires changing ends once or more then you don't need to put the OTDR in at the other end though. 1 OTDR input per shunt is all thats required.

 

[A-driver]

Just through interest, is it a requirement that you enter your details into the OTDR on every occasion when you are driving form any cab?

Out if interest is this a requirement at your TOC then? We never enter details into the OTDR at my place-they know who is driving without needing to see who's pay number is in the black box. And the shunters don't enter details at hornsey either-all we do is take our key off and in again if a Shunter takes over so management know the driver has changed.

 

[TDK]

Out if interest is this a requirement at your TOC then? We never enter details into the OTDR at my place-they know who is driving without needing to see who's pay number is in the black box. And the shunters don't enter details at hornsey either-all we do is take our key off and in again if a Shunter takes over so management know the driver has changed.

It is a part of our competence, there is a reason, they may know who is driving but this needs to be proved. This can obvoiously be done. This is mainly for post incident, it is a lot better supplying evidence with a unique number than evidence with roster record when supplying it for the RSSB. Even if you take your key out and then switch in again it does not mean you have left the cab. There are a lot of things involved with this subject and reasons why data needs to be entered into an OTDR.

There are also different types of OTDR and the comparison between them is quite diverse.

 

[A-driver]

It is a part of our competence, there is a reason, they may know who is driving but this needs to be proved. This can obvoiously be done. This is mainly for post incident, it is a lot better supplying evidence with a unique number than evidence with roster record when supplying it for the RSSB. Even if you take your key out and then switch in again it does not mean you have left the cab. There are a lot of things involved with this subject and reasons why data needs to be entered into an OTDR.

There are also different types of OTDR and the comparison between them is quite diverse.

Fair enough. When I worked for southern they did insist on it but my current TOC dosnt require you to-they take the attitude that they already know who is driving and if you swap drivers without telling them (fiddles etc) then its a serious disciplinary matter.