Which Union?

[BestWestern]

As has been said before, I view it as a form of insurance, and am in it purely for the protection when it all goes wrong. I have to say, if there was an alternative to the RMT I would join it in the morning (as I suspect a large number of my colleagues would), but in my depot there isn't.

Well, there's always the ATCU.... If they're still going?!

Worth mentioning them here, as they may have a presence in some of the depots where new starters are going. This lot are the Associated Train Crew Union, I believe, a new outfit started up some years ago to rival the established RMT/ASLEF dominance. So far as I am aware, they are a minority movement with a relatively tiny membership, and the TUC agreed some time ago not to allow them into the wider union 'family'. They are cheaper than the RMT and ASLEF, but have received some criticism in the past for the level of support and membership facilities being offered, and I also understand that they tend not be recognised by many TOCs. I should point out that this was several years ago, I have little idea of their current standing; if anybody knows better then please feel free to correct any mistakes in that. But regardless, I would advise anybody with a choice of union to weigh up the full benefits very carefully, not just on price alone. People often complain about their £15 quid a month or whatever, but seriously it's not a big deal if it saves you your job.

 

[Clip]

Well, there's always the ATCU.... If they're still going?!

Worth mentioning them here, as they may have a presence in some of the depots where new starters are going. This lot are the Associated Train Crew Union, I believe, a new outfit started up some years ago to rival the established RMT/ASLEF dominance. So far as I am aware, they are a minority movement with a relatively tiny membership, and the TUC agreed some time ago not to allow them into the wider union 'family'. They are cheaper than the RMT and ASLEF, but have received some criticism in the past for the level of support and membership facilities being offered, and I also understand that they tend not be recognised by many TOCs. I should point out that this was several years ago, I have little idea of their current standing; if anybody knows better then please feel free to correct any mistakes in that. But regardless, I would advise anybody with a choice of union to weigh up the full benefits very carefully, not just on price alone. People often complain about their £15 quid a month or whatever, but seriously it's not a big deal if it saves you your job.

They are still going yes and there is some massive opposition to them especially from the RMT so I hear. I'm not heavily into it all so no idea why but I am keen to find out why and what's been said as I did hear there was some nasty things said about them.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Some of the vitriol directed towards ATCU is frankly disgraceful. I had some irksome member of platform staff have a go at me once for joining ASLEF (like it's anybody's business but mine,) but she was gracious enough to say "At least you're not in that ............. ..... Union ATCU" (anybody on the railway will know what was said) and then started frothing about this and that. Union talk often brings out the worst in people and ATCU vs RMT/ASLEF usually gets it going.

 

[Clip]

Some of the vitriol directed towards ATCU is frankly disgraceful. I had some irksome member of platform staff have a go at me once for joining ASLEF (like it's anybody's business but mine,) but she was gracious enough to say "At least you're not in that ............. ..... Union ATCU" (anybody on the railway will know what was said) and then started frothing about this and that. Union talk often brings out the worst in people and ATCU vs RMT/ASLEF usually gets it going.

Doesn't surprise me really, bet she knows nowt about them or what they do but believes everything she has been told about them!

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Yep, and it saddens me that bitter and ignorant people like that work in our industry.

 

[Yew]

On a union topic, I was walking through town and saw the offices of the 'Transport and General Workers Union' Is anyone here a member of that?

 

[BravoGolfMike]

It is now part of the Unite union.

 

[BestWestern]

On a union topic, I was walking through town and saw the offices of the 'Transport and General Workers Union' Is anyone here a member of that?

More likely to find them at bus depots I would think.

As for the ATCU, there was much criticism aimed at them by the RMT (big surprise) suggesting that they had little to offer in terms of legal advice and suchlike, as opposed to the RMT's dedicated legal helpline and so on. I paid little interest, but enough to establish that I would remain where I was.

 

[GriffoBrighton]

I am a member of a trade union. At the moment I work for a large British Airline. I was involved in probably the most bitter and protracted industrial dispute of recent times.
I would ALWAYS encourage anyone to join a Trade Union, regardless of your political beliefs. You can not put a price on the cover that a TU gives you.

 

[RPM]

Is ACTU the union that Shaun Brady set up after he was kicked out of ASLEF?

 

[a729]

RMT for you, although uncle Bob can be a bit gobby it is by far the best union for operational staff (except drivers who should join ASLEF).

Understatement!

Not so much of a which union post but still related.

My own dilemma is whether to join at all. I will never (or rather cannot foresee a circumstance where I would) strike, I'm quite right-wing in my political views (even with the political opt-out I'm concerned what the union would be doing with my subs on campaigns etc) and therefore have no interest in the wider TU movement as a class weapon as the leadership seem to bang on about.

However I do appreciate that if I didn't join, I'd be benefitting from the subs of colleagues (TSSA do the pay bargaining etc) and missing out on any representation if any problems arise.

I agree with you. I don't approve of having to fund political parties indirectly

 

[TDK]

Train Drivers - Aslef
Guards - RMT
Managers - Tossa (Sorry Tessa)

Anyone else - Who knows

In any industry you need to be in a union not only for the benefits but for your own protection as has been proved personally not only for me but also my family, if you decide not to join a union you are on your own and if you have any diciplinary action against you and you are not in a union you are in the **** basically!

 

[LCC106]

As I understand it you can actually write to the union stating you don't wish any portion of your fees to be used to fund political parties. Think one of our guys might even have had a rebate on this, but not sure. That reminds me... Must write a letter...

 

[Beveridges]

Depot Drivers, Fitters, and other Engineering Dept staff are in RMT or Unite at Northern west

 

[monty9120]

what about senior conductor?

 

[TDK]

what about senior conductor?

As previously quoted go with the majority in that grade.

 

[Beveridges]

It must be said ASLEF do seem very good. An example being a mainline driver got involved in quite a few incidents including SPAD's so got taken out of the grade. Now normally my TOC would just move such drivers into any role that is available such as conductor, booking office, platform despatcher or even gateline ticket checking. But as this driver was in ASLEF and that he was very forceful about it, the unions got the TOC to put him straight into a Depot Driving role, no interview even required, even though it meant waiting for many months for a vacancy & another 4 months in training. Many people couldn't believe it when it happened.

Someone made the comment "If he had been in RMT, theres no way that would have happened" - how true that is I do not know.

 

[MacRae13]

The issue others will have if you don't is that the union, funded by those who are a member, are largely responsible for the salary and T&CS that you will be be benefiting from and it may be viewed as unfair for you not to contribute whilst still reaping the rewards.

This.

I wouldn't begrudge any non union member crossing the picket line and find it pretty pathetic (and grossly outdated) that there are some staff out there that think otherwise.

So you think it's morally OK for a non-member to benefit from people striking, and losing a days wage (or more), to protect or gain a condition/raise/benefit?

 

[reapz]

its so rare in this country to have good unions so when people from outside the railway get jobs on the railway they don't really understand it.

But if we were all to have the mindset of "i don't need to be in the union"we would all have a crappy enviroment to work in.

So imo its either lack of education about trade unions or it just plain selfish to not be in one

 

[Beveridges]

So imo its either lack of education about trade unions or it just plain selfish to not be in one

Or they don't realise how it will benefit them personally if they actually had an incident, or several incidents. Its like a job insurance as well in a way.

 

[GriffoBrighton]

Put it this way, if you had no Trade Union looking after your interests at work, would the Railway be paying such good salaries??? It doesn't take a genius to work that one out. Forget the accidents at work, forget insurance policies, the purpose of a Trade Union is to ensure the best T&C's for its members. There are only several industries in the UK where Trade Union membership is both vital and recognised. Where there is TU recognition, it would be foolish NOT to be a member.

 

[TDK]

Put it this way, if you had no Trade Union looking after your interests at work, would the Railway be paying such good salaries??? It doesn't take a genius to work that one out. Forget the accidents at work, forget insurance policies, the purpose of a Trade Union is to ensure the best T&C's for its members. There are only several industries in the UK where Trade Union membership is both vital and recognised. Where there is TU recognition, it would be foolish NOT to be a member.

It isn't only pay but condidions and I would say the conditions far outweigh the pay, unions are a valuable asset in may ways not only for pay talks/disputes

 

[GriffoBrighton]

Exactly TDK, as I said, a TU is to make sure it negotiates for its members, the best T&C's possible. I am extremely grateful to the TU I belong to for achieving and protecting my T&C's despite the longest and most protracted bitter dispute in the history of the TU movement. If anyone who has never been part of a TU and wants to know more, feel free to PM me.

 

[Clip]

So you think it's morally OK for a non-member to benefit from people striking, and losing a days wage (or more), to protect or gain a condition/raise/benefit?

On the other side of the coin though would you be happy for non union members to negotiate their own pay rises even if that meant they would get a bigger pay rise than you? If you are all for collective bargaining then thats for ALL,including those who may not want to join a union.

 

[OTM]

MKWhite as a newly qualified driver you are going to have an incident. More likely than not it will be relatively minor and you will be able to look after yourself. However, your incident maybe many more times more serious (maybe you were distracted by a heated argument you had earlier). In the latter case Management will be a lot less sympathetic and you'll feel very very alone. Besides that, the quality of the relationship you have with your Union will all depend in what you put into it (just like any other in life). So join up and more importantly take an active interest and you won't regret it.

 

[notadriver]

MKWhite as a newly qualified driver you are going to have an incident. More likely than not it will be relatively minor and you will be able to look after yourself. However, your incident maybe many more times more serious (maybe you were distracted by a heated argument you had earlier). In the latter case Management will be a lot less sympathetic and you'll feel very very alone. Besides that, the quality of the relationship you have with your Union will all depend in what you put into it (just like any other in life). So join up and more importantly take an active interest and you won't regret it.

That is a completely out of order to state that as a newly qualified driver he will have an incident. Are you a driver or a driver manager ?

 

[KA4C]

That is a completely out of order to state that as a newly qualified driver he will have an incident. Are you a driver or a driver manager ?

I think that OTM meant that he will make errors
Newly qualified drivers are deemed to be more at risk of an incident, which is why they are placed on a post qualifying assessment process for a period of time

 

[notadriver]

I think that OTM meant that he will make errors
Newly qualified drivers are deemed to be more at risk of an incident, which is why they are placed on a post qualifying assessment process for a period of time

Yes I appreciate and understand that new drivers are more likely to have an incident but the words used were 'going to have an incident'. I hate that sort of language and I know many drivers who have sailed through their first two years with a clean slate. That's like a car driving examiner telling a candidate they will have an accident as they are a new driver. It's a completely unnecessary shock tactic.

 

[Beveridges]

when I was in my 2nd year post qualifying I was told by my DTM that stastically more newer drivers have incidents in their 2nd year than the 1st year as this is when "some" drivers start to become more complacent

 

[notadriver]

Just out of curiosity Bev does your DTM cover all drivers or just MDDs? Wasn't sure how it worked on your side.