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Which train has the most comfortable controls?

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waterboo

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Hello guys,
I present you a couple of queries this evening.

1. What in your opinion is the most comfortable train for operating?
2. How comfortable is it operating a CTBC* with your left hand?
3. Do you prefer individual brake and throttle levers, or, CTBC?
4. What type of layout do you think is the best for operating a train?

* Combined traction brake controller.

Many Thanks...
 
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dk1

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170s are not too bad in my opinion. Always prefer them to older DMUs & never minded them instead of a 90/DVT.
 

Northerner

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I'm a fan of the 185s . very comfortable seat, nice to drive. But then the 170s arn't bad either
 

cossie4i

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395s are very comfortable to drive with a great central seating position.

I do like a separate power/brake though, but not the old style DSD when you have to hold the handle down.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Question from a non-driver... Why are the power / brake controllers usually on the left when the vast majority of people are right handed?
 

waterboo

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Too be fair, i do like desiro's controls in general!!! But, i absolutely hate the electrostar grrrrrrr
 

BravoGolfMike

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I hate using the Combined Power Brake Controllers, always awkward to use and it doesn't feel like a natural position. Seems unnecessary as well, nobody has ever told me why we use them on new stock or what makes them "better" than the old two stick method. Wasn't keen on sprinters due to poor legroom but better than using CPBCs.
Favorite units to drive were 142s for the legroom and simplicity or 144s for the large cab and excellent heaters.
 

badassunicorn

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shunter wise, older stock with two levers are easier as they give easier control at low speed when coupling and approaching buffers etc, desiros are nice I would imagine for whizzing up and down the mainline but in a depot they are annoying as the brakes automatically kick in below about 2-3mph. electrostars are a bit better as they will coast at low speed, but I find the view wholly inadequate with the gangway doors in the way. Plus you can't comfortably stand up and drive in either of those two, which is way easier when shunting them about a yard.
 

antharro

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In the last days of the 442s on SWT metals, I spoke to a number of drivers and asked which they preferred driving. With the exception of only one or two, all the drivers I spoke to said they preferred 442s. 444s were more comfortable but 442s were better to drive.
 

O L Leigh

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I don't mind the CPBC now that I'm used to it. What I don't much like is not having the option to drive while standing up if I feel the need to, so my biggest issue is actually the seat. The cab of the Turbostar is somewhat better than that of the Electrostar because it is slightly more spacious and doesn't have the gangway connection on it crowding in on the driver's position.

O L Leigh
 

waterboo

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Sorry, just to suppliment the discussion...

I understand that CTBC are not favourable for most drivers. But, is a controller like those adopted on the piccadilly line (1973 tube stock) or the standard lever (like the 455) better?
 

W230

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I also prefer two levers over the CPBC so would take a 319 over 377. Also like the ability to stand up and you don't seem to be able to do that in new stock (not sure we will on the 700 when it comes out either).

As already asked above, why was it changed to one handle OOI? No one seems to know!
 

theageofthetra

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As someone who is just beginning his driving training I'm curious as to the advantages/reasons for having the option to drive standing up? I will end up driving 465/466/376 & much later 375's
 

Domh245

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At a guess, the transition to one handle might be related to DOO - (I think the first one handled train were the networkers) - so that the driver can use one hand to control the train, and one train to communicate to control or the passengers, which is not done now, for reasons previously stated (concentrating on driving the train mainly). I guess that they then just left it as something that is done now, most likely so that control can ring you whilst your driving (if such a thing can happen). But as I said, this is just guesswork
 

O L Leigh

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As someone who is just beginning his driving training I'm curious as to the advantages/reasons for having the option to drive standing up? I will end up driving 465/466/376 & much later 375's

Comfort mostly. Standing allows you to stretch your legs a bit and get the circulation going. It's also helpful if you're busting to pee because it takes the pressure off your bladder.

You can drive a Turbostar standing up using the DSD Holdover button, but it's far from ideal. You have to stand next to the seat which puts the AWS reset a little bit too far out of reach and doesn't give you a very good view forward. I normally only do it on the depot so that I can see exactly where to stop on the fuel road, but have done it once on the mainline when my right leg went to sleep and wouldn't come back to life simply by shifting in the seat.

To come back to the CPBC, I'm not sure why the change was made either. However, it's what we have now for whatever reason. Those among my colleagues who found them the hardest to get used to tended to be those who use the old "two stick" brake and power controllers like they were playing the one-armed bandit. You can't throw the CPBC around like you're yanking on a chain and quite a few colleagues were accidently chucking the brake full in when they were simply trying to shut off power because of it. Admittedly I nearly did the same thing once or twice when I first drove Cl379s, but I soon adjusted my technique and never had a problem after that. Rather than throwing the controller around using a full arm movement I run it up and down the notches gently just using finger pressure. If I want to shut off in a hurry I can still run it down quickly but gently until I feel it going across the "gate" and the spring pressure pull it over to the right through the dog-leg, then all I have to do is pull it back against the stop to make sure I haven't inadvertently applied the brake. Simples.

**EDIT**

The Electrostar CPBC is slightly easier to use than the Turbostar CPBC because it has fewer power notches and the reverser switch is smaller and less intrusive than the lever that the Turbostars have. For the Cl379 I could rest my left hand next to the CPBC and operate it simply using finger and thumb movements against the side of the controller handle. It was very easy and, because I wasn't actually holding the controller, the spring would pull it across the dog-leg very easily. It wasn't even necessary to use the hill start on them because, contrary to what a lot of my colleagues said, they simply don't roll back. In any case, the button is on the desk not the handle.

The Turbostar CPBC can't really be used in this way. You really do need the use of the hill start button because these units really will roll if you're on any sort of gradient so you need your whole hand on the controller to operate that. Also there just isn't space to have your hand at the side of the CPBC. The first time I tried it I got my hand painfully wedged between the end of the CPBC and the reverser (much to my instructor's amusement) and had to shut off power to free it. However, the operation is very similar and it can be pushed up and down with finger pressure alone and I have been known to apply the brake in exactly the same way I did on the Cl379s just by putting my hand at the side and pushing the controller with my thumb.

Personally I never had a problem swapping between units with different numbers of controllers. I had a technique for each one that served me well.

O L Leigh
 
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Skoodle

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I've only ever driven a 378, which is the same TBC as the Electrostar. Like O L Leigh above I rest my hand to the left of the controller and just use my finger and thumb. If I'm going from power to 'off' to coast, I'll place my ring finger at the the little notch where you have to pull the handle over so that it hits my finger to stop me pushing too far forward and applying brake by accident.

One day I might have something else to compare it to! :p
 

Kneedown

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You can drive a Turbostar standing up using the DSD Holdover button, but it's far from ideal. You have to stand next to the seat which puts the AWS reset a little bit too far out of reach and doesn't give you a very good view forward.

O L Leigh

TBH I never had any problem driving a 170 standing up. Stand up as normal, but with just one foot on the DSD pedal, changing foot every so often.
Combined Power/Brake Controller every time for me. By far the most comfortable way to drive. 170's weren't ideal as sometimes a handle could have quite stiff notches, but Meridians are as comfortable to operate as anything i've ever driven.
 

TDK

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TBH I never had any problem driving a 170 standing up. Stand up as normal, but with just one foot on the DSD pedal, changing foot every so often.
Combined Power/Brake Controller every time for me. By far the most comfortable way to drive. 170's weren't ideal as sometimes a handle could have quite stiff notches, but Meridians are as comfortable to operate as anything i've ever driven.

There was an experiment done a few years back and it was concluded that standing whilst driving a train was bad practice due to signal sighting, I thought at the time it was malarkey but after doing a signal sighting course I realised the science of signal sighting and although it is a small risk there is a risk involved. The best trains to driver personally speaking of the units I have driven are below in order of preference.

1. 168
2. DVT
3. 175
4. 319
5. 377
6. 158
7. 165
8. 456
9. 400 series
10. 150
11. 455
12. 153
13. 2 SUB (sandite)
14. Class 67

The 168 is comfortable, has good reliable brakes and is ultra quiet, the only downfall is some of the PBC's are stiff.
 

Latecomer

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7 Jun 2011
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Hello guys,

2. How comfortable is it operating a CTBC* with your left hand?

It's reasonably comfortable but I find you have far more control and your arm is more relaxed if you grasp the the CTBC by the right-angle rather than on the horizontal part of the handle. It is much easier fine tune both power and braking, especially at slow speeds such as in a depot when you don't want to take a full notch or apply a full brake step.

Question from a non-driver... Why are the power / brake controllers usually on the left when the vast majority of people are right handed?

Aside from reasons previously given, remember that many people are accustomed to using their left hand for control of manual gears in cars - the coordination required for a gearstick arguably being greater than that required for steering. It does not feel strange in the least. You might also argue that it frees up the right hand to carry out other tasks on the move such as operate menus on mitrac, use the handset for PA's etc, etc. Those are the tasks that might throw me a bit more if I were to use my left hand - although I'm sure left handed drivers cope perfectly well!

As someone who is just beginning his driving training I'm curious as to the advantages/reasons for having the option to drive standing up? I will end up driving 465/466/376 & much later 375's
It is beneficial to stretch the legs sometimes, especially in cabs with limited leg room, however, on a lot of traction you lose the ability to readily override a passcomm activation if the override is foot operated.
 
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