Which ticket offices will avoid the axe?

Mainsideman · 19 Oct 2022

Transport secretary has just quoted “ I have commited to a full review of ticket offices. Not everyone will close.”

Which ones do we think will stay open and survive the axes?

From a bbc correspondent via twitter: https://twitter.com/paulcliftonbbc/status/1582666354586714112?s=46&t=YtpICB-SjvK0yTQ2fHfilA

RailUK Forums

AMD · 19 Oct 2022

Probably based upon ticket sales, there have been reports of some staffed stations doing as few as a dozen tickets a week.
Also depends upon the usual stakeholders - TfGM and the like - as to what they want or to fund.

hexagon789 · 19 Oct 2022

Boski said:
Transport secretary has just quoted “ I have commited to a full review of ticket offices. Not everyone will close.”
Begs the question which ones are likely to stay open and why? How do they decide which ones get the axe.

Probably ones at larger stations, the main London termini and those with high tourist footfall?

I.e. - maybe all the Network Rail-owned ones plus a few others.

RailWonderer · 19 Oct 2022

Ticket offices at stations where many travellers, especially irregular users or foreign tourists will use who will need help with their journeys. Anywhere in larger towns and cities, and smaller towns where the ticket offices generate enough revenue to justify the cost of the staff that man them.

185143 · 19 Oct 2022

I'd hope the likes of Manchester Airport ect which see large amounts of foreign tourists would be kept. I've been there several times and they've had additional (presumably Revenue staff?) Helping out as it's been that busy.

Similarly the Network Rail stations due to the high footfall they have.

LNW-GW Joint · 19 Oct 2022

Isn't it the notion that physical ticket offices may close but the staff will still be there to assist passengers, eg at ticket machines and barriers?
TVM and e-ticket options will also need to improve to offer a full range of ticket types.

P Binnersley · 19 Oct 2022

The "booking office" at Birmingham International closed a few years ago and was replaced with a ticket retailing area in the concourse. This consists of the usual ticket machines and at least one member of staff with a tablet who can take details for non standard tickets (priv/rover/CIV) and then send them to a machine for payment/issue.

Foreign tourists may prefer a ticket machine that speaks their language to a ticket clerk that probably doesn't.

43066 · 19 Oct 2022

Sadly I think the RMT need to accept that widespread closures are inevitable and work towards ensuring staff are redeployed, no compulsory redundancies etc. rather than just trying to resist it at all costs (which will be futile).

Clearly there is still a good case for retaining ticket offices at major stations.

Surreytraveller · 19 Oct 2022

hexagon789 said:
Probably ones at larger stations, the main London termini and those with high tourist footfall?

I.e. - maybe all the Network Rail-owned ones plus a few others.

Of course, Network Rail don't run any ticket offices. The ones at Network Rail managed stations are still run by the TOCs

pdeaves · 19 Oct 2022

Is this announcement the first in a long line of making a new policy 'different to my predecessor's policy'? i.e. change of policy for the sake of being seen to be doing something.

hexagon789 · 19 Oct 2022

Surreytraveller said:
Of course, Network Rail don't run any ticket offices. The ones at Network Rail managed stations are still run by the TOCs

I meant Network Rail owned stations, because they tend to have among the highest footfall.

TheGrew · 19 Oct 2022

43066 said:
Sadly I think the RMT need to accept that widespread closures are inevitable and work towards ensuring staff are redeployed, no compulsory redundancies etc. rather than just trying to resist it at all costs (which will be futile).

Clearly there is still a good case for retaining ticket offices at major stations.

Yeah, I agree I still think in-person ticket offices have their place at larger/touristy stations. But I will often choose a ticket machine if given the option for speed. At the barrier at MCV I also see an increasing number of people using E-Tickets. Maybe staff should be redeployed as revenue protection staff to ensure people buy tickets using the myriad of available methods.

Bald Rick · 19 Oct 2022

The rebuilt Gatwick Station won’t have a ticket office.

It will have lots of ticket machines and staff available to help out.

This is the future.

DarloRich · 19 Oct 2022

Bald Rick said:
The rebuilt Gatwick Station won’t have a ticket office.

It will have lots of ticket machines and staff available to help out.

This is the future.

until the staff are withdrawn

43066 · 19 Oct 2022

Bald Rick said:
The rebuilt Gatwick Station won’t have a ticket office.

It will have lots of ticket machines and staff available to help out.

This is the future.

Gatwick already lacks a ticket office, even in its current rebuild-ongoing state! Rows of TVMs and staff to assist - thankfully there are some who still know what priv tickets are, unlike certain London overground stations I could mention…

Bald Rick · 19 Oct 2022

DarloRich said:
until the staff are withdrawn

It’s reasonable to assume that staff that are there specifically to help customers will last longer than those that are there specifically to operate the rail system.

43066 · 19 Oct 2022

Bald Rick said:
It’s reasonable to assume that staff that are there specifically to help customers will last longer than those that are there specifically to operate the rail system.

Surely experience shows they’ll firstly get rid of all the staff apart from those essential for it to function? For example Guards at most of the current DOO operators were got rid of, rather than being retained in a purely customer service role.

Towers · 19 Oct 2022

Staff will continue to be required to man gatelines, to provide assistance as per disability legislation, and to carry out train dispatch duties where required. The sensible future would see these roles combined, along with a retail/general customer assistance role to provide support in purchasing tickets, into one multipurpose stations grade. It makes sense to everyone except the RMT.

ChrisC · 19 Oct 2022

I think it’s at some of the smaller sized staffed stations which will soon see all staff withdrawn. A station fairly local to me has just one member of staff, working in the ticket office, which is just open from 6.45am until 6pm. There can often be quite a queue to buy tickets during the morning but it does tend to quieten off in the afternoons. At 6pm when that member of staff leaves, the station building, including toilets and waiting area is locked up, and passengers have to access the platforms by a side gate and purchase tickets from an outdoor ticket machine. Stations like this could become completely unstaffed with nowhere to wait in the warmth and no facilities. It’s already a terrible cold place to wait for a train on a dark winter evening when everything is closed.

Mainsideman · 19 Oct 2022

Towers said:
Staff will continue to be required to man gatelines, to provide assistance as per disability legislation, and to carry out train dispatch duties where required. The sensible future would see these roles combined, along with a retail/general customer assistance role to provide support in purchasing tickets, into one multipurpose stations grade. It makes sense to everyone except the RMT.

I dont see the need for this. At my station for platform staff we are split into groups because a huge roster is not viable, combining all the roles into one would get seriously messy from a roster standpoint especially at a london terminal where staffing levels are very high.

pompeyfan · 19 Oct 2022

Towers said:
Staff will continue to be required to man gatelines, to provide assistance as per disability legislation, and to carry out train dispatch duties where required. The sensible future would see these roles combined, along with a retail/general customer assistance role to provide support in purchasing tickets, into one multipurpose stations grade. It makes sense to everyone except the RMT.

What about when the TOCs bin all the contract staff and replace with agency?

markymark2000 · 19 Oct 2022

I think the thing is, we need ticket offices to be revamped. Bog standard ticket offices don't work and aren't worth it in many cases. Merseytravel has the right idea in some of their areas with MtoGo, a convenience store and ticket office.

I really don't see why we can't have a model, similar to that of the Post Office. Post Offices now commonly merged into other shops such as convenience stores or pharmacies, why can't some ticket offices be the same? I am not saying move the ticket offices into towns but if there is space, let the ticket office also be a shop of some kind? Barmouth 'Ticket office' is a gift shop, if this was more widespread, it means the ticket offices could be open for longer and at a reduced cost to the taxpayer? Everyone wins. It won't work in all areas, I 100% get that. The issue being of course the RMT won't like this as less people work actually on the railways and so the staff won't be able to join the union or be eligible for a luxury railway pension. It's not so much a job loss, the same person could be employed on the same hours, just that they would perhaps also be selling mars bars alongside rover tickets.

I think the issue that we have is just how inflexible the role is with most TOCs, ticket office staff only do ticket office whereas if staff were more flexible, they could much better support the station. If the ticket office queue goes down, why can't the staff be on the concourse helping out? Anyone stopping this wants to give their head a wobble.

Towers · 19 Oct 2022

pompeyfan said:
What about when the TOCs bin all the contract staff and replace with agency?

What's to stop them doing that anyway next week? Selling tickets doesn't require a specialist workforce, indeed nor do most railway jobs. We've seen plenty of TOCs use agency for gateline, customer service & assistance, even dispatch. Repeated strikes is only likely to empower the industry's overlords to crack on with any ideas for wholesale replacement. Cooperating is likely to end far better on this issue, IMHO.

greatkingrat · 19 Oct 2022

Boski said:
I dont see the need for this. At my station for platform staff we are split into groups because a huge roster is not viable, combining all the roles into one would get seriously messy from a roster standpoint especially at a london terminal where staffing levels are very high.

Why would it be messy? Surely it is much easier to just roster any 9 staff for a shift, rather than have to make sure you have 3 ticket office, 3 gateline, 3 despatchers etc.

pompeyfan · 19 Oct 2022

Towers said:
What's to stop them doing that anyway next week? Selling tickets doesn't require a specialist workforce, indeed nor do most railway jobs. We've seen plenty of TOCs use agency for gateline, customer service & assistance, even dispatch. Repeated strikes is only likely to empower the industry's overlords to crack on with any ideas for wholesale replacement. Cooperating is likely to end far better on this issue, IMHO.

Very good point actually. I just despise the T&Cs that agency staff have to work under, and am worried they will spread. You’re correct in saying probably should do as your told or at least meeting in the middle.

For the record I’m not against station staff doing multi role duties providing they’re still there. Many of the Customer Ambassador roles at smaller stations on SWR do an amazing job, combining station presentation, retail and customer assistance, and it would be a real shame to lose these roles.

busestrains · 19 Oct 2022

I suppose maybe the largest major station ticket offices will remain open. But who knows. They shut all the ticket offices at the three Heathrow Airport stations a few years ago and those ones are some of the most important ones to keep open. Hopefully at the very least the major Central London terminus stations will keep their ticket offices open.

These statistics might be of interest showing how many tickets have been sold at each ticket office for each of the past to twelve years:

London North Eastern Railway: