Which penalty fare?

[MikeWh]

If you board a Southern train without a ticket you may be aware of notices warning about their penalty fare scheme which is £20 or twice the single fare to the next station, whichever is more expensive. Now, if you board at South Croydon (say) and get off at Norwood Junction you'll be greeted by posters explaining that the TfL penalty fare scheme is £50. Which fare would you be charged in this situation? You'll have travelled on a Southern train but allighted at a station operated by London Overground.

 

[Dewedin]

Station of departure I believe.

 

[island]

Depends on the last service you used. And depends on whether the PF inspector you get is an authorised collector for that TOC!

 

[clagmonster]

I presume this is hypothetical.
If Norwood Jn has a compulsory ticket area, then I believe that LT could charge their £50 penalty fare for being in a compulsory ticket area without a valid ticket. Sadly, I can't find full details of the London Overground penalty fare scheme, so can't find out whether this is the case.

If Norwood Jn does not have a compulsory ticket area, then the only penalty fare chargable would be for travelling in a South Central division BR train, so only the BR penalty fare could be charged. I think. However, some operators have reciprocal schemes whereby they can operate each others schemes, so a LT inspector may be able to charge the £20 penalty fare if LT and Southern have such an agreement.

 

[RJ]

If you board a Southern train without a ticket you may be aware of notices warning about their penalty fare scheme which is £20 or twice the single fare to the next station, whichever is more expensive. Now, if you board at South Croydon (say) and get off at Norwood Junction you'll be greeted by posters explaining that the TfL penalty fare scheme is £50. Which fare would you be charged in this situation? You'll have travelled on a Southern train but allighted at a station operated by London Overground.

If you've come off a Southern service then the PF rules for Southern apply. Only somebody authorised to collect for, or on behalf of Southern may issue the Penalty Fare. If you've come off a London Overground service then LO PF rules apply. It's irrelevant who operates the station, it matters more what the RPI is authorised to do.

 

[MikeWh]

If you've come off a Southern service then the PF rules for Southern apply. Only somebody authorised to collect for, or on behalf of Southern may issue the Penalty Fare. If you've come off a London Overground service then LO PF rules apply.

Cheers, that makes sense I suppose. I'm sure Southern and LO will have reciprocal arrangements, just like Southern and FCC do on the Brighton line.

Yes, it is a hypothetical question. I know that some people see a £20 penalty fare as an occupational hazzard when getting otherwise free travel. I'd guess that a £50 fare might be more of a deterrant as you'd have to get away with it an awful lot to cancel out getting one of those.

 

[Daniel]

I'd guess that a £50 fare might be more of a deterrant as you'd have to get away with it an awful lot to cancel out getting one of those.

£25 if paid within the first 14 days, slightly less of a deterrant there!

 

[swt_passenger]

There was a DfT consultation about National Rail schemes changing to £50/£25 (amongst other things) which closed early last year, but it all went quiet afterwards. Would make some sense if all schemes across the country were the same, including the various trams and the Metro...

 

[Clip]

There was a DfT consultation about National Rail schemes changing to £50/£25 (amongst other things) which closed early last year, but it all went quiet afterwards. Would make some sense if all schemes across the country were the same, including the various trams and the Metro...

Yep get them all in line with each other i hope.

though whilst we all agree that there are problems with PFs and UFN (yorkie ) i do beleiev that the higher the deterrent the less evasion should occur.

though that does mean TOCs playing fair and having more barriers/RPIs and such like in operation for this to happen before the forum blows up at me.


did i cover all bases?