Which Network Rail branches would make viable heritage lines?

[L+Y]

A fun thought experiment- there's often talk around the viability of heritage lines, and future rail cutbacks, so: which of your local lines could make a viable heritage route?

I'll put in a submission for the Ormskirk branch. As a heritage route, it would have a main line connection at the Preston end, and good public transport links via Merseyrail at the Liverpool end. Its stations serve actual towns and villages with tourist draw of their own, as opposed to very rural wayside halts. The passing loop at Rufford and signal boxes at Midge Hall and Rufford give a "manageable" degree of starting infrastructure for any new heritage set up. Finally, there isn't much competition in the area, with the ELR being the better part of an hour's drive away, and Llangollen and Lakeside further still. I'll assume for the sake of argument in this fantasy that the Preston Docks team would jump at the chance to run trains on full line of their own!

Which of your local branches would- or indeed would not- be a viable heritage route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It has to run the last few miles on the WCML so definitely not.

The Conwy Valley perhaps? Though not the tunnel, so probably only between Glan Conwy and Betws.

 

[stuu]

Looe, being completely independent of the main line, and going to a busy tourist destination is an obvious one

 

[Falcon1200]

Which of your local branches would- or indeed would not- be a viable heritage route?

Preferably a line starting from a main line station but not needing to run on the main line; Looe is a good example, perhaps also St Ives in Cornwall. Having space for maintenance and storage facilities would be a bonus too, so I would suggest Marks Tey/Sudbury, which already has this of course at Chappel.

 

[brad465]

Were it not for its relatively high traffic, the Bromley North branch is the only one I can think of on the Southeastern network. There's a local bus route that serves the same areas, and the normal operation is physically isolated from the rest of the network, including at Grove Park.

 

[xotGD]

Windermere

Indeed, when West Coast operated the branch a few years back it was a heritage railway.

 

[30907]

It has to run the last few miles on the WCML so definitely not.

The Conwy Valley perhaps? Though not the tunnel, so probably only between Glan Conwy and Betws.

It would be reasonably practicable to run into the Junction independently (memory says there are recently refurbished sidings in the way, though) And with enough money to play with the tunnel could be kept open.

Looe, being completely independent of the main line, and going to a busy tourist destination is an obvious one

And has been used for specials in the past IIRC.

Preferably a line starting from a main line station but not needing to run on the main line; Looe is a good example, perhaps also St Ives in Cornwall.

St Ives is just too busy with P+R traffic.
I could annoy several people and suggest St Budeaux-Gunnislake....

With all these, you would have to decide whether it was to be an all-day service (see numerous threads on heritage lines with commuter services) or a 10 till 6 job. Gunnislake at least has to be all-day because of geography, Sudbury has/had commuter traffic and Windermere is busy with longer-distance travellers.
I think Blaenau could be made to work, and possibly Looe, on a restricted timetable, but that's about it..

 

[317 forever]

The Whitby line already feels like a heritage line.

Maybe some lines with infrequent services such as the Brigg line or Knottingley - Goole.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Windermere would probably be not that bad a loss if Wordsworth and associated campaigners hadn't forced the WCML to stay to the east (I think); the interchange to Lakeland destinations could instead have been a bus interchange in Kendal town centre (a decent one, not its appallingly grim present bus station). Oxenholme is just a bit out in the sticks for that to really work. As it is losing it would mean a fair few more cars in the Park, though I do think it could be used to greater potential than it is.

 

[A0]

The Island Line.

Greenford.

Sudbury.

 

[Basil Jet]

I don't recall the Greenford branch being particularly bucolic or breathtaking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't recall the Greenford branch being particularly bucolic or breathtaking.

It is a great study on innersuburban decay, but otherwise an utter dump, one of the nastiest lines I have ever had the displeasure to ride on.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The Island Line.

Greenford.

Sudbury.

At one point in evaluating the options for the IoW there was some dialogue of the Steam Railway there would be interested in taking on the rest of the island - however the cost and corporate responsibility was just way too much for them to even consider and would probably be the same on all the options posters have listed.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The Brentford branch has been actively considered for heritage operation in recent years

 

[snowball]

Fort William to Mallaig.

Allegedly many users are surprised to find the Settle & Carlisle is a regular Network Rail line.

 

[Gloster]

At one point in evaluating the options for the IoW there was some dialogue of the Steam Railway there would be interested in taking on the rest of the island - however the cost and corporate responsibility was just way too much for them to even consider and would probably be the same on all the options posters have listed.

I don’t think the Steam Railway were really interested in taking over the IslandLine. It was largely various dreamers with no connection to SWR, Network Rail, the Steam Railway, etc. who pushed and made a lot of noise of the ‘Wouldn’t it be wonderful...’ type. I think the Steam Railway was vaguely interested in being able to run into St John’s Road, but wasn’t going to expend a lot of effort on something it realised was likely to be unworkable.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Windermere

Indeed, when West Coast operated the branch a few years back it was a heritage railway.

No it wasn't. It was a free railway and if you exclude enthusiasts it wasn't that busy even though the journey didn't cost anything. Heritage railways aren't free, in fact they are often considerably more expensive per mile than the real railway.

 

[paul1609]

No it wasn't. It was a free railway and if you exclude enthusiasts it wasn't that busy even though the journey didn't cost anything. Heritage railways aren't free, in fact they are often considerably more expensive per mile than the real railway.

That's not true if you take in to account the taxpayers subsidy for like for like lines. Imagine what the flood repair costs would be if divvyed up between customers of the Conwy Valley Lines, Settle and Carlisle landslip and viaduct repairs or even the West Highlands lines maintenance bills. You'd be looking at passenger costs of well over £10 per km I'd suggest.

 

[chorleyjeff]

A fun thought experiment- there's often talk around the viability of heritage lines, and future rail cutbacks, so: which of your local lines could make a viable heritage route?

I'll put in a submission for the Ormskirk branch. As a heritage route, it would have a main line connection at the Preston end, and good public transport links via Merseyrail at the Liverpool end. Its stations serve actual towns and villages with tourist draw of their own, as opposed to very rural wayside halts. The passing loop at Rufford and signal boxes at Midge Hall and Rufford give a "manageable" degree of starting infrastructure for any new heritage set up. Finally, there isn't much competition in the area, with the ELR being the better part of an hour's drive away, and Llangollen and Lakeside further still. I'll assume for the sake of argument in this fantasy that the Preston Docks team would jump at the chance to run trains on full line of their own!

Which of your local branches would- or indeed would not- be a viable heritage route?

Are any branch lines profitable as a stand alone route?

 

[geordieblue]

I'd imagine a fair few freight-only lines. Fowey maybe?

 

[swt_passenger]

Wasn’t the opposite question asked recently, “which heritage lines could operate a local commuter service?” The answer, as in all the previous discussions, seemed to be a resounding NO because volunteers wouldn’t operate early mornings all year round, passengers wouldn’t pay heritage style fares, etc etc.

Seems to me it will be a very unusual minor NR branch if it isn’t already busy at commuter times.

Past discussions
2022

Heritage Railways providing a public service

Obviously there is not a huge list of railways that could fit this criteria, but I think it's a potentially interesting topic to discuss nonetheless. Certain heritage railways, in particular the longer ones that connect up to (or almost connect to) the mainline network, or those which serve...

www.railforums.co.uk

2021

Heritage Railways running services aimed at 'regular' passengers?

Posts #1 - #3 originally in this thread You could create a platform at Castleton close to the junction on the eastbound side that is entirely away from the main line, connected by a walkway to Castleton station. This could be operated by a heritage unit (DMU or pacer). An hourly service (half...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bertie the bus]

That's not true if you take in to account the taxpayers subsidy for like for like lines. Imagine what the flood repair costs would be if divvyed up between customers of the Conwy Valley Lines, Settle and Carlisle landslip and viaduct repairs or even the West Highlands lines maintenance bills. You'd be looking at passenger costs of well over £10 per km I'd suggest.

I didn't mean more expensive to operate but more expensive to travel on and heritage railways usually are. The point was if it didn't attract many passengers when it was free it isn't going to attract many if it cost more than the current fare.

 

[6Gman]

Given the struggles existing heritage railways are experiencing in maintaining volunteer support I doubt there's the capacity for more.

 

[Fincra5]

I've liked the idea of the Branch from Ham Street to Dungeness. Extend it a bit to the RDHR Railway. Space adjacent to Ham Street for Heritage Platforms.

Allow access for the Nuclear Sidings still.

 

[AzureOtsu]

Bromley North, first electric heritage line!

 

[Basil Jet]

Bromley North, first electric heritage line!

Epping Ongar ripped out the electric rails before opening as a heritage railway. And does the Volks count as a heritage railway?

 

[A S Leib]

Of the ones near me, Watford - St. Albans (existing bus service more convenient for the town / city centres and those going to Luton, and going via London isn't massively slower if you've just missed a St. Albans Abbey train or one's been cancelled), or maybe Aylesbury to Princes Risborough (means losing the direct service to High Wycombe though) or, if trains from the north can be terminated at Aylesbury, Aylesbury Vale Parkway (unlikely if the Aylesbury EWR branch is still happening).

 

[Gloster]

One problem is that few of the lines would have the facilities, or space to construct the facilities, to stable and maintain the rolling stock, PW equipment, etc. Most lines are worked by a single unit each day, which is part of a fleet that is stabled and maintained elsewhere. A heritage line would need a larger fleet, to allow one train to be out of service and others to be under the protracted overhaul that is necessary in the sector. The Looe line is the only one that comes to mind that might be able to accommodate this.

There is also the problem of reinstating runaround loops and the like. BR sold off surplus land and in most cases there is nothing more than a short platform with a dead-end siding left.

 

[Springs Branch]

Given the struggles existing heritage railways are experiencing in maintaining volunteer support I doubt there's the capacity for more.

I agree that we might be approaching, or already at "peak heritage rail", and it may be difficult for a new line to find enough volunteers and fare-paying punters.

That said, I wonder how a Heritage Ribble Valley line between Hellifield and Clitheroe would go - assuming a situation arose where the through route was no longer needed for freight & the odd diversion?

Features of a fantasy Hellifield to Clitheroe North Lancashire Railway would be:

• Nice stretch of scenic countryside to travel through more or less all the way.
• Around 13 miles, so a decent journey - similar length to the full East Lancs Railway between Heywood & Rawtenstall.
• Reasonable access by rail and road at each end from Lancashire, W. Yorks and Greater Manchester conurbations.
• Clitheroe is a pleasant destination in itself. A wander around shops, cafes and the like will keep the missus happy.
• Hellifield has an established railway heritage and still has its grand old junction station, semaphore signals (for authentic photographic backdrops) and possibly still enough vacant railway land for the heritage line's base.
  The settlement of Hellifield has always struck me as a council estate in the middle of the countryside. Not sure if many other attractions there, but may be opportunities for enterprising local small business to serve more tourists. Apologies to Hellifield residents if I'm wrong on this!
• Chatburn and Gisburn are both nice villages with long-closed stations, but potential for intermediate halts along the line.

Among the downsides:

• Huge amount of construction needed wherever the line's HQ or base would be. Despite its strong railway history, I don't think much, if any, useful depot infrastructure remains, apart from the restored Hellifield passenger station.
• Assuming rail access had to be maintained to Castle Cement from the Blackburn direction, would need some kind of track & signal rearrangement between Horrocksford Jn & Clitheroe station - either a "Matlock Solution" or a "Whitby Solution".
• Maybe a kind of "Keighley Solution" could be devised for National Rail interchange at Hellifield - or maybe not.
• The heritage line would probably knock the Sunday DalesRail trains on the head.
• I've always liked the relatively unspoiled, off-the-beaten-track feel of the Ribble Valley / Forest of Bowland area. So don't want to encourage too many new tourists to go there and spoil my future visits. Self-defeating, or what?

 

[yorksrob]

If you turn an existing passenger railway into a heritage line, you're effectively closing it as a form of public transport.

Heritage lines just don't have the resources to run a service throughout the day, seven days a week.