Which longer preserved railways have well maintained tracks?

[railfan99]

It may come down to a question of available funding and competent volunteers in sufficient numbers, as well as the availability of suitable equipment - costly ballast tampers not often seen - and support from management, but which longer (say five miles - eight km - in length and above) UK heritage railways have at least fairly well maintained tracks?

Not looking for perfection.

I'm no engineer but some things that spring to mind from a layman's perspective (apologies if any glaring errors):

* reasonable ride quality in Mk 1 coaches or DMUs at 40kmh if that speed can be attained
* extremely rare to have broken rail(s)
* sleepers in good repair whether concrete or wooden, including Pandrol clips or other fixtures
* sleepers spaced at the recommended number per mile/km
* ballast is in at least reasonable condition
* cess drains/culverts or other means of dealing with excess water are present
* weed growth in the four foot and environs curtailed or even eliminated
* points and crossovers have the correct timbers that are in good shape

This isn't meant to be an attack on some cash-strapped heritage railways, far from it, as that would be disheartening to gracious and selfless individuals.

Positive thoughts please.

 

[The exile]

It may come down to a question of available funding and competent volunteers in sufficient numbers, as well as the availability of suitable equipment - costly ballast tampers not often seen - and support from management, but which longer (say five miles - eight km - in length and above) UK heritage railways have at least fairly well maintained tracks?

Not looking for perfection.

I'm no engineer but some things that spring to mind from a layman's perspective (apologies if any glaring errors):

* reasonable ride quality in Mk 1 coaches or DMUs at 40kmh if that speed can be attained
* extremely rare to have broken rail(s)
* sleepers in good repair whether concrete or wooden, including Pandrol clips or other fixtures
* sleepers spaced at the recommended number per mile/km
* ballast is in at least reasonable condition
* cess drains/culverts or other means of dealing with excess water are present
* weed growth in the four foot and environs curtailed or even eliminated
* points and crossovers have the correct timbers that are in good shape

This isn't meant to be an attack on some cash-strapped heritage railways, far from it, as that would be disheartening to gracious and selfless individuals.

Positive thoughts please.

Would hope that the answer is all of them (with the possible exception of the weeds - which are now a ubiquitous problem)

 

[Class15]

Bodmin would be a good shout?

 

[paul1609]

It may come down to a question of available funding and competent volunteers in sufficient numbers, as well as the availability of suitable equipment - costly ballast tampers not often seen - and support from management, but which longer (say five miles - eight km - in length and above) UK heritage railways have at least fairly well maintained tracks?

Not looking for perfection.

I'm no engineer but some things that spring to mind from a layman's perspective (apologies if any glaring errors):

* reasonable ride quality in Mk 1 coaches or DMUs at 40kmh if that speed can be attained
* extremely rare to have broken rail(s)
* sleepers in good repair whether concrete or wooden, including Pandrol clips or other fixtures
* sleepers spaced at the recommended number per mile/km
* ballast is in at least reasonable condition
* cess drains/culverts or other means of dealing with excess water are present
* weed growth in the four foot and environs curtailed or even eliminated
* points and crossovers have the correct timbers that are in good shape

This isn't meant to be an attack on some cash-strapped heritage railways, far from it, as that would be disheartening to gracious and selfless individuals.

Positive thoughts please.

In my opinion most of them. There are some that are known to have issues prehaps surprisngly its not really related to either the length or the size of the railway but the issues arent such that its an immediate safety issue rather a future funding/ resourcing issue. There are some railways that are much better equiped than others but they then do quite often hire out their expertise to the other railways. For obvious reasons Im not going to quote individual cases.

 

[Flying Phil]

The Great Central Railway has very well maintained track as they do testing under contract for some mainline stock. They also have a section between Quorn and Swithland passed for 60 MPH Steam and 75MPH diesel under special conditions.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The Severn Valley Railway has improved on this count in the last decade. Much of the route had previously been reusing life-expired London Underground track and was showing its age in deteriorating ride quality. Over the last few years I believe much further relaying has occurred including some noticeable stretches of long welded rail and concrete sleepers, on good tamped ballast which has massively improved matters.

 

[james_the_xv]

The Severn Valley Railway has improved on this count in the last decade. Much of the route had previously been reusing life-expired London Underground track and was showing its age in deteriorating ride quality. Over the last few years I believe much further relaying has occurred including some noticeable stretches of long welded rail and concrete sleepers, on good tamped ballast which has massively improved matters.

Also now have an agreement with NR for training tamping crew (amongst other maintenance crew) I believe, so should be well served in that respect.

 

[hexagon789]

I would've hoped all those that run special or test trains at greater than 25mph - so the GCR, SVR etc etc

 

[paul1609]

I dont think there are many preserved railways where the track itself is maintained to a line speed of 25mph. There isnt really much difference in the track on a heritage railway and secondary routes on network rail like the West Highland Line or the Central Wales Line. The speed restriction is much more likely to be caused by curvature, visibility and especially crossings. Having said that there are obviously defects on both Heritage and the national network which cause reduced speeds. On my heritage railway the alignment is checked and recorded electronically and the track is also scanned utilising ultrasound to find rail defects. These are obviously techniques which didnt exist even on the mainline when railway preservation first started.

 

[30907]

I dont think there are many preserved railways where the track itself is maintained to a line speed of 25mph. .... Having said that there are obviously defects on both Heritage and the national network which cause reduced speeds. On my heritage railway the alignment is checked and recorded electronically and the track is also scanned utilising ultrasound to find rail defects.

I don't know how mine is managed technically (not my department!), but the same applies overall and the PWay are pretty active! I would be surprised if any heritage line was different - management are aware of insurers, RAIB, ORR, and reputational damage, not necessarily in that order!

 

[37114]

Gloucestershire and Warwickshire Railway northern extension from Toddington to Broadway is Continuous welded rail so is very good. There is an excellent selection of blogs on their website which shows how they maintain the track, no mean feat when the line was originally built on the cheap and has had a few landslips sadly.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Never come across one that isn't fit for 25mph in my view. There is plenty of variability within that standard.

 

[Belperpete]

You haven't restricted this to standard gauge, but I doubt that the ride quality in a MK1 is going to be particularly good on any narrow gauge lines.

As for weed growth, all the preserved lines I have visited recently would put NR to shame. Had a ride on the Bluebell this weekend, in their OBS push-pull, and was particularly impressed by the standard to which they were maintaining the lineside verges (probably as a fire control measure).

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Track has to be surprisingly bad not to meet the (minimum) standards for 25mph. If you want to see how bad it can get, watch some YouTube videos of the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch over the last few years!

 

[Dave S 56F]

Visited the mid Norfolk railway on saturday for their steam gala and ok yes the old down line they use as the running line from kimberley Park to hardingham the old up line is still there and looked like it were used as a loop when the line was still used for freight grain trains after been on the alignment of the up line side from wymondham seems to be in good order a mixture of pandrail and bullhead rail on chairs (old steam rail track as I like to call it bullhead rail). And beyond hardingham to thuxton the old up line mostly pandrail a gent was telling me it has has just been pulled up in old intact panels complete with sleepers and pandrol spikes apparently the army did it in the 1960,s and just been left stacked up on the up side alignment or left down loosely without the fishplates on and sleepers rotting in the vegetation. They intend to go to county school station and ultimately even Fakenham one day beyond Dereham another 7 miles due to the wear of the rail head and rotted sleepers beyond hoe prevent this dream from becoming a reality depending on how much funding is going into this project and how tight cash is at the moment for charities to to raise and also if there is a fundraising scheme open by the N.M.R. to get to county school station.

 

[renegademaster]

While I'm

You haven't restricted this to standard gauge, but I doubt that the ride quality in a MK1 is going to be particularly good on any narrow gauge lines.

As for weed growth, all the preserved lines I have visited recently would put NR to shame. Had a ride on the Bluebell this weekend, in their OBS push-pull, and was particularly impressed by the standard to which they were maintaining the lineside verges (probably as a fire control measure).

The ride quality on the RHDR is pretty bad. I don't know if it's the rolling stock or tracks fault though. I did notice they use rounded pebbles , probably from Dungeness, for their ballast , when I thought the jaggedness of the ballast rocks had a structural purpose

 

[Titfield]

Swanage Railway is awaiting the outcome of the RAIB investigation into the derailment at the Diesel Gala back in May.

 

[randyrippley]

Turn the question on it's head...

How many preserved lines have better track than Carnforth - Skipton?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

While I'm

The ride quality on the RHDR is pretty bad. I don't know if it's the rolling stock or tracks fault though. I did notice they use rounded pebbles , probably from Dungeness, for their ballast , when I thought the jaggedness of the ballast rocks had a structural purpose

It does, angular ballast self-interlocks and provides a stable structure. Rounded pebbles are precisely the wrong material to use as they conversely do not, and have a tendency to slump under load.

 

[D Williams]

Read the Ministry report on the Sevenoaks accident. The " rolling rivers" were blamed but it had more to do with rubbish track as when one of the class was tested on the GNR it ran at high speed with no tendency to throw itself off.

 

[30907]

Turn the question on it's head...

How many preserved lines have better track than Carnforth - Skipton?

I imagine you are referring to it being jointed track with a 60mph limit as far as Settle Jn? It was interesting in a Pacer...
Don't think many heritage lines have track fit for >60mph....

Read the Ministry report on the Sevenoaks accident. The " rolling rivers" were blamed but it had more to do with rubbish track as when one of the class was tested on the GNR it ran at high speed with no tendency to throw itself off.

For those who are unfamiliar with the case - it happened in 1927.

 

[paul1609]

I imagine you are referring to it being jointed track with a 60mph limit as far as Settle Jn? It was interesting in a Pacer...
Don't think many heritage lines have track fit for >60mph....

A lot of sections of heritage railways that have recently been relaid will have sections of track that would be passed for 75 mph on network rail if the limit was set on track and formation alone. They arent passed for more than 25 mph because of the ROGs restrictions for heritage railways and sighting lines for user Worked and Footpath crossings and signalling systems.
If heritage railways are relaying significant stretches the norm these days is flat bottom rail on concrete sleepers. There isnt really huge supply of 2nd hand good quality bullhead rail around and if you are maintaining the track with volunteer groups wooden sleepers will just be too labour intensive.

 

[30907]

A lot of sections of heritage railways that have recently been relaid will have sections of track that would be passed for 75 mph on network rail if the limit was set on track and formation alone.

Thanks - I am not in PWay so I had assumed that the formation was maintained appropriately for 25, as a higher standard would be wasteful of ballast and staff time!

 

[railfan99]

If heritage railways are relaying significant stretches the norm these days is flat bottom rail on concrete sleepers.

Excellent, because concrete sleepers should last 30 years, at least 50 per cent longer than wooden ones.

However in my Oz state, sometimes on secondary lines only 1 in 4 timber sleepers are replaced at a time, the claim being to do it all at once would be wasteful, a line of thinking I find hard to accept given the disruption to trains. Better to do it all at once as some UK heritage railways do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2024 ==

How many preserved lines have better track than Carnforth - Skipton?

On the way to staying near Saltaire, I used that line last year. Riding quality was just OK but as expected, the constant ba-bump-ba-bump from the short rail sections was apparent.

In contrast, at 40kmh, every heritage railway on which I've been - about 10 thus far - has featured a smooth ride.

 

[Belperpete]

However in my Oz state, sometimes on secondary lines only 1 in 4 timber sleepers are replaced at a time, the claim being to do it all at once would be wasteful, a line of thinking I find hard to accept given the disruption to trains. Better to do it all at once as some UK heritage railways do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2024 ==

Surely replacing every fourth sleeper should be possible without any disruption at all? A rolling program of such renewals would theoretically keep the sleepers in reasonable condition. However, a point would be reached when either the rail or the ballast would need replacing.

Heritage railways usually have a closed period over the winter when no trains run, when full relayings can be done without disrupting services, something that public service lines don't have.

 

[12C]

On the way to staying near Saltaire, I used that line last year. Riding quality was just OK but as expected, the constant ba-bump-ba-bump from the short rail sections was apparent.

The move to class 158s has made travelling that route much more pleasant, they handle jointed track very well at speed. When it used to be mainly served by class 142/144 pacers it was certainly an experience!

 

[Ploughman]

The NYMR over the last 10 years has been relaying significant lengths with new FB 113A Rails on mostly 2nd hand Concrete Sleepers.
Although there are some stretches of Steel sleepers and even some new CEN60 rails.
Most of the relaid track, has were curvature allows, been welded up into CWR and stressed.
Using a combination of our own Plasser 07 Tamper and hired in units mainly S+C tampers for check rail areas, using the on board Computer design system, it is possible to specify design speed for tolerances, this gives the possibility of a design speed suitable for a 100 mph or more. We usually try for the highest speed possible even though we will never actually see that speed. Designing for a lower speed may be easier but will need more attention more frequently.
The most notable change on the NYMR is in the length from Newbridge to Farwath. Following a number of renewals along there. Generally of about a mile or more a time.
We still have the rest of the line to work on though so it may take a few years to do the lot.