Which is your favourite TOC and why?

[stu]

Put me down for SWT and Chiltern too.

 

[221129]

hock:

Some of their fares are reasonably priced, but only if your journey commences after 09:30 and ends by 15:45 or commences after 18:15 (difficult for any journey which is genuinely "crosscountry"), and isn't on a Friday or a Sunday.

A pricing structure as arbitrary as £209.30 for an Advance 1st if boarding the 09:27 Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth 14:11 at Manchester, but £79.70 if boarding at Stockport at 09:35, is anything but cheap. What other TOC would attempt to charge almost £130 for a passenger to travel from Manchester to Stockport?

I did say cheap for me Can't argue that they're not cheap when I don't need to pay

 

[Chris M]

XC's pricing structure is not cheap, otherwise you would not save (sometimes significant) amounts of money Bristol Temple Meads-Brimingham New Street by splitting your ticket at Cheltenham. (I presume Bristol-Cheltenham is set by GWR?)

 

[221129]

XC's pricing structure is not cheap, otherwise you would not save (sometimes significant) amounts of money Bristol Temple Meads-Brimingham New Street by splitting your ticket at Cheltenham. (I presume Bristol-Cheltenham is set by GWR?)

I think you missed the 'for me' bit...

 

[Matt Taylor]

As a front line employee I take great comfort from seeing so much love for SWT, and for that reason I must exclude them from my opinion. For me it has to be between VTEC and LM as I've used them more than any others for leisure purposes with the exception of Great Western who are let down by the state of their 158s and overcrowding on Solent-Severn routes plus the hopeless Southern Railway. LM and VTEC have decent trains, decent staff and a decent approach and that's despite getting stranded in Newcastle one night last year after a Retford 'wires down' calamity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a front line employee I take great comfort from seeing so much love for SWT

Certainly the front-line staff will be a big part of this (how often, after all, do passengers talk to the MD?) - so that credit is much deserved.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What other TOC would attempt to charge almost £130 for a passenger to travel from Manchester to Stockport?

All of them, really.
All long-distance franchise TOCs have cliff-edge pricing.
You'd get the same between Leeds and Wakefield, or Cardiff and Newport.
But XC does have extreme time restrictions, and their reach is much wider than their actual network.
eg Chester-Leamington is an XC fare with off-peak restriction 2V (0930), even though you are more likely to travel on ATW/LM/VT.
I wouldn't be surprised to find there's an RDG plot to enforce 0930 nationally.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't be surprised to find there's an RDG plot to enforce 0930 nationally.

While that of course has lots of holes in it, it would at least be easy to understand and would mean only a limited set of splits make sense, making them easy to work out if you wish. I think the vast majority of the general public would actually be in favour of such a move.

DB used to even publicise that with their Laender-Tickets - they were restricted pre 0930 and 1600-1800, so the publicity actually said (in German) "if you need to travel between 1600-1800, simply buy a Normalpreis ticket between the appropriate stations to cover any travel taking place between those times".

 

[al78]

hock:

Some of their fares are reasonably priced, but only if your journey commences after 09:30 and ends by 15:45 or commences after 18:15 (difficult for any journey which is genuinely "crosscountry"), and isn't on a Friday or a Sunday.

A pricing structure as arbitrary as £209.30 for an Advance 1st if boarding the 09:27 Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth 14:11 at Manchester, but £79.70 if boarding at Stockport at 09:35, is anything but cheap. What other TOC would attempt to charge almost £130 for a passenger to travel from Manchester to Stockport?

Isn't it generally the case on the railways that there are discrete boundaries between peak and off peak times, and it is a binary situation as to whether to charge premium or standard prices based on whether time is peak or off peak. If I wanted to travel from London to Manchester in the evening it would likely be cheaper to first find a restaurant and have a meal, then buy the rail ticket and travel.

 

[nickdavies]

All of them, really.
All long-distance franchise TOCs have cliff-edge pricing.
You'd get the same between Leeds and Wakefield, or Cardiff and Newport.
But XC does have extreme time restrictions, and their reach is much wider than their actual network.
eg Chester-Leamington is an XC fare with off-peak restriction 2V (0930), even though you are more likely to travel on ATW/LM/VT.
I wouldn't be surprised to find there's an RDG plot to enforce 0930 nationally.

I'd love to know what all that means.

 

[Minilad]

I think you missed the 'for me' bit...

Well I got what you meant even if the others didn't.

Mainly because I also benefit from their "cheap" fares

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Tough one, so I'll do a little analysis for some of the TOCs.

I've barely used SWT - however one of the few occasions I did was a result of delays to another operator, and the staff member at Southampton most helpful. Class 444 was also well presented and a comfortable ride. Certainly the 455s look very well maintained, going by statistics and general concensus, SWT do a good job.

GWR in Exeter are a neat operation, Northern has potential but let down currently by the stock, and Transpennine Express will be much improved over the next couple of years. London Overground are efficient and the 378s well turned out.

LM being my local operator aren't bad; best of the Govias certainly. Trains are well kept, staff are polite; only gripes would be them not ordering the additional 172 cars to add capacity and free up some 170s for strengthening and the lack of communication when things go wrong in the evening particularly. Think though LM is mainly just suffering from a lack of additional stock, and has potential. The Snow Hill lines are well run on the whole, and better than some other inner suburban operations. Be interesting if they retain the franchise, but I do fear DfT invitations for plans for DCO could be damaging.

Chiltern would clinch it for me, certainly been excellent in the last few years. Stock is always well turned out, onboard staff friendly, usually punctual and reasonable fares, and they have a sense of innovative and high standards about them.

I will just put in a little comment for XC; onboard staff I find are very professional and friendly, and excellent when it comes to there being any delays. To be honest, in my many travels with them on the Birmingham to North East section, I've had few problems and I put most of the blame with the Voyagers and their lack of carriages down to the previous identity.....If certain other related identity would stop running diesel Voyagers under the wires by replacing the majority of them, said capacity issues could be helped out, and allow a full refurbishment to occur.

 

[bramling]

Tough one, so I'll do a little analysis for some of the TOCs.

I've barely used SWT - however one of the few occasions I did was a result of delays to another operator, and the staff member at Southampton most helpful. Class 444 was also well presented and a comfortable ride. Certainly the 455s look very well maintained, going by statistics and general concensus, SWT do a good job.

GWR in Exeter are a neat operation, Northern has potential but let down currently by the stock, and Transpennine Express will be much improved over the next couple of years. London Overground are efficient and the 378s well turned out.

LM being my local operator aren't bad; best of the Govias certainly. Trains are well kept, staff are polite; only gripes would be them not ordering the additional 172 cars to add capacity and free up some 170s for strengthening and the lack of communication when things go wrong in the evening particularly. Think though LM is mainly just suffering from a lack of additional stock, and has potential. The Snow Hill lines are well run on the whole, and better than some other inner suburban operations. Be interesting if they retain the franchise, but I do fear DfT invitations for plans for DCO could be damaging.

Chiltern would clinch it for me, certainly been excellent in the last few years. Stock is always well turned out, onboard staff friendly, usually punctual and reasonable fares, and they have a sense of innovative and high standards about them.

I will just put in a little comment for XC; onboard staff I find are very professional and friendly, and excellent when it comes to there being any delays. To be honest, in my many travels with them on the Birmingham to North East section, I've had few problems and I put most of the blame with the Voyagers and their lack of carriages down to the previous identity.....If certain other related identity would stop running diesel Voyagers under the wires by replacing the majority of them, said capacity issues could be helped out, and allow a full refurbishment to occur.

Unfortunately I can't quite agree about Chiltern. On paper they have done some good stuff in particular the infrastructure enhancements over the years. However I have had too many journeys which start with a ridiculously long queue for the ticket office at Marylebone, train announced at the last minute, and arrive on the platform to find a 2-car DMU. All very well chasing new markets, but how about resourcing the ones you have first?

 

[Mag_seven]

If certain other related identity would stop running diesel Voyagers under the wires by replacing the majority of them, said capacity issues could be helped out, and allow a full refurbishment to occur.

I suggested on here that VTWC become an "electric only" franchise some time ago only to be shot down in flames!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suggested on here that VTWC become an "electric only" franchise some time ago only to be shot down in flames!

Er, North Wales Coast?

They could release *some* Voyagers but not all of them.

 

[cactustwirly]

I disagree about SWT, their fares are ridiculously overpriced and their 450s are quite dirty.

GWR are quite good, reasonable fares(except the HSS) and well turned out trains. But their punctuality isn't great.

I went on c2c at the weekend and I was impressed since the trains were all on time and the fares really cheap, the trains were quite clean too.

Chiltern are quite good, but 168s really aren't suitable for London to Birmingham intercity trains.

 

[TC60054]

I have heard a lot of good things about SWT
LM ( my local TOC) aren't too bad, but suffer from way too many short forms. They don't have the 350s they need. IMO they need to take the 350s from TPE, maybe swap with the 319s, so that short forms on the peak services are reduced

And please tell me how this is going to work? You realise that 319s will increase TPEs overcrowding as well as being completely unsuitable for the work that the 350s currently operate!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE don't need 319s, they have new stock on order. Once that is delivered, it is very likely that the 350s will go to son-of-LM to allow them to stop using 319s.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Interesting how SWT gets a majority vote (so far), and yet their boss is one of the most reviled on this forum (second only to Mr Branston).

I don't like Souter's political views. However there is little doubt that he is a good businessman and his TOCs are well run and professional.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't like Souter's political views. However there is little doubt that he is a good businessman and his TOCs are well run and professional.

I would agree. As Stagecoach these days is a plc - not just his own business - I see no reason to avoid them just because of the opinions of a particular member of staff. And while I disagree with his political views, he is undoubtably very good - one of the best, indeed - at running a transport business.

 

[nickdavies]

and arrive on the platform to find a 2-car DMU. All very well chasing new markets, but how about resourcing the ones you have first?

And in the evenings especially that can mean an lengthy yomp to the very far end of platform 4-6, too often passing a collection of units parked up and lights out on platforms 1 to 3 and and then more on your assigned platform. No fun at all if you've got cases or kids in tow. And it's not uncommon to see breathless and dejected souls walking back to the barrier line having seen their train disappearing into Lord's tunnel. Even regulars get caught out when their two minute sprint from the tube becomes seven due to a random replatforming.

 

[Agent_c]

I would agree. As Stagecoach these days is a plc - not just his own business - I see no reason to avoid them just because of the opinions of a particular member of staff. And while I disagree with his political views, he is undoubtably very good - one of the best, indeed - at running a transport business.

Indeed, be it Bus or Train, his transport vehicles tend to be much nicer than the competition, and the service better too.

 

[J-2739]

And please tell me how this is going to work? You realise that 319s will increase TPEs overcrowding as well as being completely unsuitable for the work that the 350s currently operate!!

TPE are getting new intercity EMUs by CAF anyway, so TPE can cascade the 350s to LM by then to increase capacity on busy routes to the capital.

 

[sk688]

And please tell me how this is going to work? You realise that 319s will increase TPEs overcrowding as well as being completely unsuitable for the work that the 350s currently operate!!

Just a suggestion, but they are getting new trains anyway, so the 350s can come onto the south WCML where they are needed most ( after tpe get their trains)

 

[thomson787]

SouthEastern, very much improved over the last few years.

Also I do applaud GTR for trying to bring the operation upto date and by trying to remove all unnecessary weight and for fighting the crupt unions so hard.

 

[dk1]

SouthEastern, very much improved over the last few years.

Also I do applaud GTR for trying to bring the operation upto date and by trying to remove all unnecessary weight and for fighting the crupt unions so hard.

Not quite sure what crupt means but think you'll find the fighting is from the DfT. Apart from a little bad publicity, on their current contract what has GTR got to lose?

 

[swt class 450]

If it is allowed to be included then i would say that Translink Northern Ireland Railways are by far the best TOC in the UK (even slightly better then SWT and Chiltern). Every time that i visit Northern Ireland i am always impressed with their services. Their services are almost always on time. Their stations are very well maintained. They have Guards on 100% of their trains. They have a nice well designed fleet of trains. Their fares are very reasonable compared to the fares in mainland UK. It is just generally a very well run and well managed company.

 

[AlterEgo]

SWT are a good TOC. Before I moved to Surrey I heard mostly bad things about them, but now I cannot see that much of it was substantiated.

There are 13 trains to London from Woking between 0700-0800, 9 of which are fast trains. That's a really good service.

Their revenue protection is pretty poor but aside from that I don't really have much to complain about.

 

[devonexpress]

Very rarely had a problem with GWR so im going to say GWR. Used to commute on SWT, appalling service, always running late, and their guards where rude, trying to check your valid ticket as you where leaving the train, talk about taking the biscuit:-x

 

[Deepgreen]

SWT. I think they do an efficient and effective job in difficult circumstances. I admire them for recognising the need for additional rolling stock and terminal capacity at Waterloo and getting the DfT to authorise the necessary work. Of course in a complex operating situation some things won't work so well and some people will be dissatisfied with them, but overall I think they are the best.

Remember that SWT took on a route that was already blessed with numerous flying/burrowing junctions and a single London terminus. Compared with, say, GTR, that's a gem of a route network to have. That's not to say, though, that GTR haven't been a disaster, even accounting for their much harder-to-operate network.

An open question - how much sway do you think SWT had in this/how much was recognised already by HMG as a strategic inevitability (coupled with the convenient additional space from the ex-international side)?