• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Which coach is the coolest on Avanti West Coast

Status
Not open for further replies.

Trains1

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2024
Messages
148
Location
Manchester
Hello all

does anyone know which coaches on Avinti West Coast have the lowest temperature or any pattern of which one is normally cooler as I hate being on a hot couch but I want to book my seat in the app so that I can pick

edit on the class 390

Thanks,
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

irish_rail

On Moderation
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
4,531
Location
Plymouth
Hello all

does anyone know which coaches on Avinti West Coast have the lowest temperature or any pattern of which one is normally cooler as I hate being on a hot couch but I want to book my seat in the app so that I can pick

edit on the class 390

Thanks,
I also find pendilnos uncomfortably warm, and I'm someone who is normally always cold on trains! The heat coupled with the tilt is a recipe for travel sickness / nausea in my experience. I think its just a case of they are set too warm on depot. Part of the problem may be that whilst it could be baltic in Glasgow, the trains further down don't need the temperature quite so warm.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
Following as this is something I'm interested in knowing, the air-con is excellent, but it seems that as soon as the sun goes in they crank the heating right up.

My only criticism of the Pendolinos is the heat, it's unbearable at times, I arrived into Euston last Friday and had to find a bench outside Nandos to sit on and cool off for 10 minutes as it had made me feel rough.

They must know it's an issue as when you log into the Wi-Fi is asks for feedback on the temperature.
 

XCTurbostar

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2014
Messages
2,600
I’m not sure which is the ‘coolest’ but I definitely find the pantograph motor coach C (PTSRMB) to be the warmest and loudest by far. The driving ends (DMKFO and DMSO) are the worse ride overall.
 

Christmas

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2018
Messages
441
Of course the aisle seats are a lot cooler than the window sears in every coach in my experience. The contrast is immediately noticeable when you shift from the sweltering window to the aisle.
 

simonmpoulton

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2011
Messages
217
I know they are going but i've found the 221's to be far more pleasant temperature wise since the refurb. Presumably the 390's since the refurb are the same?
I remember though in Virgin days complaining about the high temperature in the train and they refunded me for my ticket so it's not exactly a new issue.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
I know they are going but i've found the 221's to be far more pleasant temperature wise since the refurb. Presumably the 390's since the refurb are the same?
I remember though in Virgin days complaining about the high temperature in the train and they refunded me for my ticket so it's not exactly a new issue.

No, the 390's are the same temperature as before the refurb.

I can't imagine the heating is either on or off, there has to be an intermediate setting...
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
12,905
Location
Cambridge
Pendolinos have always been very warm. Mind you, I'm always freezing so I appreciate it personally :lol:
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,669
Location
Isle of Man
I don't actually think there's any rhyme or reason to the heating/air conditioning systems on the Pendolino. It really does seem to be pot luck. Alstom's world famous attention to detail relating to electrical systems...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
19,910
Location
East Anglia
I don't actually think there's any rhyme or reason to the heating/air conditioning systems on the Pendolino. It really does seem to be pot luck. Alstom's world famous attention to detail relating to electrical systems...
Yes I've had some pretty uncomfortable journeys on busy Pendos so not easy to move. Add a hangover to that and :(
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AJDesiro

Member
Joined
10 May 2019
Messages
929
Location
Rugby
The traincrew are actually able to control the temperature on board a pendolino, so it’s likely just the case that they often crank the temperature up.
 

Trains1

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2024
Messages
148
Location
Manchester
I went on the 390 yesterday and to my surprise it wasn't too hot but the 807 was cooler. The worst bit I found was the connection on the 390 with or without WiFi the 807 was way better
 

Skie

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2008
Messages
1,239
The Train Manager can control the heating, so if you and others are too warm you can always politely ask them to drop it down a little.

The 390s seem to be designed to cook thighs though. The window seats have that awkward curve out and then back in that doubles as a lazy armrest, but it does trap the rising heat from the heaters. Not entirely clear why they even need the floor level heaters, given A/C systems are usually decent at warming a space up too. Might just be they lack the ability to do it quickly enough at the start of service compared to the resistive heaters.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
12,905
Location
Cambridge
I went on the 390 yesterday and to my surprise it wasn't too hot but the 807 was cooler. The worst bit I found was the connection on the 390 with or without WiFi the 807 was way better
That’ll be the special coating Virgin Trains specified, designed to limit internet connectivity to encourage customers to pay for Wi-Fi.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,903
That’ll be the special coating Virgin Trains specified, designed to limit internet connectivity to encourage customers to pay for Wi-Fi.
:lol:

It's a thermal coating on the windows. As it contains metal, it blocks signal. They didn't deliberately block phone signal...
 

Lewisham2221

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2005
Messages
2,752
Location
Staffordshire
:lol:

It's a thermal coating on the windows. As it contains metal, it blocks signal. They didn't deliberately block phone signal...
Especially considering mobile internet, smart devices and WiFi were all in their absolute infancy during the spec/design/build phase of the Pendolino/Voyager fleet and didn't really become mainstream for a few years after their introduction to service
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
12,905
Location
Cambridge
:lol:

It's a thermal coating on the windows. As it contains metal, it blocks signal. They didn't deliberately block phone signal...
Especially considering mobile internet, smart devices and WiFi were all in their absolute infancy during the spec/design/build phase of the Pendolino/Voyager fleet and didn't really become mainstream for a few years after their introduction to service
Hahahaha I’ve been a bit too gullible and believed someone’s twaddle then! :lol::oops:
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
8,933
Hahahaha I’ve been a bit too gullible and believed someone’s twaddle then! :lol::oops:
2009 I think they introduced onboard WiFi, it wasn't a thing for years after the trains were introduced. Just an unfortunate and unanticipated side effect! One of the reasons I can't wait to see the back of class 222s!
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
The Train Manager can control the heating, so if you and others are too warm you can always politely ask them to drop it down a little.

Shouldn't have to ask anyone, the heat shouldn't be set that high in the first place.

Despite LNWR being slower and running the risk of a 350/2, I've just booked with them down to Euston next week rather than the usual Avanti as the heat makes me feel sick.
 

Skie

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2008
Messages
1,239
Shouldn't have to ask anyone, the heat shouldn't be set that high in the first place.
It may not even be set high, but for whatever reason it hasn’t reacted quickly enough. Pretty common for an empty train at a comfortable temperature to suddenly be filled with passengers. The air temperature will increase rapidly due to all of the bodies and the heaters still being on now dumping heat into less air. The AC will kick in eventually but the now off heaters will still be dumping their heat out for a while so it takes time for the temperature to become reasonable again.

Or someone has just whacked it up high thinking that’ll increase the temperature quicker than setting a reasonable one initially (it usually won’t) then forgotten to lower it later.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
It may not even be set high, but for whatever reason it hasn’t reacted quickly enough. Pretty common for an empty train at a comfortable temperature to suddenly be filled with passengers. The air temperature will increase rapidly due to all of the bodies and the heaters still being on now dumping heat into less air. The AC will kick in eventually but the now off heaters will still be dumping their heat out for a while so it takes time for the temperature to become reasonable again.

Or someone has just whacked it up high thinking that’ll increase the temperature quicker than setting a reasonable one initially (it usually won’t) then forgotten to lower it later.

I usually travel down to Euston at around 7am, it isn't a build up of heat from a days worth of passengers.

If I'm down to just a T-shirt at 7am in the morning in mid-November, the heating is set too high.

It also makes it feel much colder when you get off the train.
 

Trains1

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2024
Messages
148
Location
Manchester
Shouldn't have to ask anyone, the heat shouldn't be set that high in the first place.

Despite LNWR being slower and running the risk of a 350/2, I've just booked with them down to Euston next week rather than the usual Avanti as the heat makes me feel sick.
out of interest is it the 3+2 that isn't great about the 350/2? One of the main things I don't like about the 350 vs 390 is that the doors are in the middle of the carriage.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
out of interest is it the 3+2 that isn't great about the 350/2? One of the main things I don't like about the 350 vs 390 is that the doors are in the middle of the carriage.

Doors in the middle, I don't mind, it makes boarding and alighting quicker, I wouldn't object to the 390's having the same door positioning... (Yes, I know it'll never happen)
 

grinderx

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2023
Messages
45
Location
UK
Doors in the middle, I don't mind, it makes boarding and alighting quicker, I wouldn't object to the 390's having the same door positioning... (Yes, I know it'll never happen)

Since the 350s were increased to 110mph, they've proven credible alternatives to 390s, except for uncomfortable seats. Cold air aside (which ironically seems to what you want), the 350s easily win on ease of access. Like any train though, the 350s do vary. I've been on a fair few that feel/smell like the air con is broken. But then you can usually switch carriage.

There are obviously several overlapping categories of passenger: reserved/not reserved, able/less able, with/without luggage, commuters/not commuters, kids/no kids. 390s seem to suck at everything the less able, luggage bearing, non-commuters with children need. They incur "boarding" and "disembarkation" overhead (also known as passenger stress) at major stations, which just makes the hot and cramped feeling worse.

I wonder if some of these view points have fed into (aside from cheaper walk-up tickets?) the sheer number of long-distance travellers that we see on LNR commuter services? (pre-COVID, this was a often a problem for LNR users south of Rugby)

Add to this the need to book seats on Avanti for cheaper tickets, and you can end up somewhere awful. I used to dread being booked into Coach A as it only had a single end, and if the train was busy it felt like you were trapped for three hours.

Could be worse, you might have to endure 158s at rush hour...
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
5,369
Pendolinos have always been very warm. Mind you, I'm always freezing so I appreciate it personally :lol:
I agree, i have always found Pendolinos lovely and warm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Yes I've had some pretty uncomfortable journeys on busy Pendos so not easy to move. Add a hangover to that and :(
Well you can't expect the temperature to be set to accommodate your hangover.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The Train Manager can control the heating, so if you and others are too warm you can always politely ask them to drop it down a little.
Other people might be perfectly happy with the temperature.
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
19,910
Location
East Anglia
Well you can't expect the temperature to be set to accommodate your hangover.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I wouldn’t expect them to but each time it’s been down to an air-con issue pumping out to much heat.

I think the train manager can adjust or attempt to. On our Stadler fleet we as drivers do that.
 

BG2024

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2024
Messages
84
Location
Liverpool
Unbearably hot on my Euston-Lime Street Pendolino yesterday. It was so hot that my bar of chocolate melted on the table in front of me! Heaters were blasting out like a furnace, while an asthmatic wheeze from the air conditioning was trying to fight back: I can only hope that means there was a fault because surely they don't run both systems against each other by design? Tried to speak to the train manager about it but his hide and seek skills defeated me.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,256
Location
Liverpool
Unbearably hot on my Euston-Lime Street Pendolino yesterday. It was so hot that my bar of chocolate melted on the table in front of me! Heaters were blasting out like a furnace, while an asthmatic wheeze from the air conditioning was trying to fight back: I can only hope that means there was a fault because surely they don't run both systems against each other by design? Tried to speak to the train manager about it but his hide and seek skills defeated me.
They are NOT separate systems.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top