Where would you start a new Open Access operator?

[4-SUB 4732]

Liverpool to Glasgow will be done; and in theory can get good connections at Preston/Carlisle with TPE or WC services to Edinburgh. Same on the reverse.

Euston to Liverpool has supressed demand; and you have an hourly fast service from MKC to Crewe with 3tph connecting; you also have the option now of Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield to Stafford or Crewe and connections to Liverpool.

No point burning that useful 'fire break' path for a service that won't help too many folk.

If you are going to use that path, surely it would be better to consider some sort of "path swap" to put another service to Trent Valley stations such as Nuneaton and Tamworth?

 

[faltskog36abba]

I would like to see a return of the Rochdale Euston service -Previously operated by North western trains. When I travelled in 1999 the train was three quarters full and outlasted all the other services operated by the company to the capital. Paths and platform space at Euston permitting, The train would call at Man Victoria, Salford central [if extra platforms were provided] then Eccles for Media city, Newton-Le Willows, Warrington bank quay.

 

[Class465pacer]

London Euston - Northampton - Birmingham International - Wigan North Western - Haymarket - Dundee - Aberdeen using new bi mode Hitachis (could they make some that tilt?) could work. Edit out some or all of the WCML stops if they are too abstractive from Avanti

I'm surprised such a service doesn't exist

Personally I’m not sure a town with 8K population needs a whole open access operation especially when the branch line its served by is already close to the WCML

 

[4-SUB 4732]

London Euston - Northampton - Birmingham International - Wigan North Western - Haymarket - Dundee - Aberdeen using new bi mode Hitachis (could they make some that tilt?) could work. Edit out some or all of the WCML stops if they are too abstractive from Avanti

Personally I’m not sure a town with 8K population needs a whole open access operation especially when the branch line its served by is already close to the WCML

Why Northampton, International and a meander across the back of Birmingham? And how do you do Haymarket? A reversal?

Looks like this needs a lot of work. Or the bin!

 

[Bald Rick]

A few WCML Services:

1. London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street (5tpd): London Euston - Milton Keynes Central - Rugby - Nuneaton (1tpd) - Tamworth (1tpd) - Litchfield Trent Valley (1tpd) - Stafford - Crewe (1tpd) - Liverpool South Parkway - Liverpool Lime Street
2. Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverly (8tpd): Liverpool Lime Street - St Helens Central (2tpd) - Preston - Lancaster - Oxenholme Lake District (3tpd) - Carlisle - Lockerbie (Then: ) - Carstairs (1tpd) - Motherwell (4tpd) - Glasgow Central (4tpd) (Or: ) - Haymarket (4tpd) - Edinburgh Waverly (4tpd)

Both wouldn’t be primarily abstractive, they’d be almost entirely abstractive!

 

[DB]

I rather suspect that no company is going to be looking at new OA operations in the next few years - with the drop in numbers and the uncertainty over what restructings of the railways might look like, it would be high risk. I think the fact that Grand Central, who have a lot of experience and have made routes pay which many thought were doubtful, have abandoned their Blackpool plans when they were ready to go says a lot - if they don't think they can make a new route work at the moment, it's hard to see who else would manage it.

And there are actually very few possibilities now anyway which would give the passenger flows needed even under normal circumstances, and those sorts of flows are normally only found on London routes, which are likely to be the worst affected by the downturn.

Are First still intending to proceed with their Edinburgh plans?

 

[Bletchleyite]

London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street (5tpd): London Euston - Milton Keynes Central - Rugby - Nuneaton (1tpd) - Tamworth (1tpd) - Litchfield Trent Valley (1tpd) - Stafford - Crewe (1tpd) - Liverpool South Parkway - Liverpool Lime Street

That could be done by extending the Crewe service. But WMT seem more interested in the likely-more-profitable destination of Manchester, though I doubt it'll happen now as competition is basically out.

 

[LOL The Irony]

How many people make the trip on wet Tuesdays in February?

It'll be packed Fridays & Sundays by Londoners going to/from their second homes.

 

[Bald Rick]

It'll be packed Fridays & Sundays by Londoners going to/from their second homes.

No it wouldn’t. As the Friday / Sunday trains on the WCML, whilst packed (in normal times), don’t see everyone pile off at Oxenholme.

Besides, OA operators rely on maximum utilisation of assets. Running full trains twice a week doth not butter the parsnips.

 

[PTR 444]

It'll be packed Fridays & Sundays by Londoners going to/from their second homes.

Not if those second homes become first homes as the current wfh trend continues long term!

 

[LOL The Irony]

No it wouldn’t. As the Friday / Sunday trains on the WCML, whilst packed (in normal times), don’t see everyone pile off at Oxenholme.

Besides, OA operators rely on maximum utilisation of assets. Running full trains twice a week doth not butter the parsnips.

I was talking in the sense of uncoupling a Voyager at Lancaster and sending it that way in the mid afternoon, returning after peak (let's say 7ish).

 

[Bletchleyite]

No it wouldn’t. As the Friday / Sunday trains on the WCML, whilst packed (in normal times), don’t see everyone pile off at Oxenholme.

Besides, OA operators rely on maximum utilisation of assets. Running full trains twice a week doth not butter the parsnips.

TBH, Windermere does have direct trains to the sort of place where people will go for weekends away there from by train - Manchester.

 

[Bald Rick]

TBH, Windermere does have direct trains to the sort of place where people will go for weekends away there from by train - Manchester.

Indeed, but are those 3(?) coach trains full of passengers from Manchester going to Windermere?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, but are those 3(?) coach trains full of passengers from Manchester going to Windermere?

They're reasonably well used but you'll get a fair bit of turnover of passengers at e.g. Preston and Lancaster.

 

[deltic]

Liverpool - St Helens - Warrington BQ - Hartford - Crewe - Stafford - Wellington - Shrewsbury (reverse) - Hereford - Abergavenny - Newport (reverse) - Bristol TM.
The end-to-end journey time wouldn't be spectacular, but it would provide a lot of missing links, and couldn't be accused of being primarily abstractive.

That would be my idea to along with

Leicester to Leeds/Hull alternatively via Nottingham, Mansfield and Doncaster

Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Stockport, Manchester Picc, Liverpool

When East West Rail opens

Bristol, Swindon, Oxford, Bedford to Leicester

 

[martinsh]

I reckon the best bet would be South West – North West / Scotland

Exeter – Taunton – Bristol – Severn Tunnel Jcn – Cwmbran – Hereford – Shrewsbury – Crewe – Warrington – Wigan – Preston – Lancaster – Carlisle – Glasgow

Some using the MML

St Pancras – Luton Airport – Leicester – Ilkeston – Alfreton – Chesterfield – Sheffield – Barnsley – Mirfield – Huddersfield [ reopen Horbury west curve ]
St Pancras - Luton Airport – Leicester – Ilkeston - Mansfield – Worksop
St Pancras - Luton Airport – Luton – Bedford – Wellingborough – Kettering – Hinckley – Nuneaton – Coleshill – Brimingham

Also in the Midlands

Derby – Long Easton – Ilkeston – Mansfield – Worksop – Retford – Gainsborough – Brigg – Grimsby
Derby – Burton – Tamworth – (Sutton Park) – Walsall – Wolverhampton – Telford – Shrewsbury [ Would like to go Burton – Lichfield – Walsall, but that link is missing ]
Birmingham – Walsall – Cannock – Rugeley – Stoke – Congleton – Macclesfield – Stockport – Stalybridge – Huddersfield – Halifax - Bradford

 

[the sniper]

Derby – Burton – Tamworth – (Sutton Park) – Walsall – Wolverhampton – Telford – Shrewsbury [ Would like to go Burton – Lichfield – Walsall, but that link is missing ]

If it weren't for the missing link, a Shrewsbury/Wellington - Wolverhampton - Walsall - Lichfield - Derby stopper would have been a no brainer for the West Mids TOC, past and present. A stopping service Walsall to BHM via the Park as a whole (rather than just reopening Aldridge) has more value than I think has been recognised. I'm not sure about running Open Access via them though.

 

[43096]

Where would you start a new Open Access operator?

Not in the UK.

 

[bussikuski179]

In Finland, using some bimodes on Helsinki-Pasila-Kerava-Mäntsälä-Lahti-Kouvola-Lappeenranta-Joutseno-Imatra-Parikkala-Savonlinna. There would be 5 return trips a day.

 

[mspljd1990]

I'd link Yorkshire with Wales.

York - Leeds - Wakefield - Sheffield - Derby - Birmingham - Gloucester - Bristol - Newport - Cardiff - Swansea

York - Leeds - Huddersfield - Manchester - Chester - Llandudno/Holyhead

 

[CW2]

I'd link Yorkshire with Wales.

York - Leeds - Wakefield - Sheffield - Derby - Birmingham - Gloucester - Bristol - Newport - Cardiff - Swansea

York - Leeds - Huddersfield - Manchester - Chester - Llandudno/Holyhead

The problem with both of these proposals is that they are both primarily abstractive of revenue from the incumbent operators.

There used to be through services from Holyhead to Scarborough as part of the hourly loco-hauled Trans Pennine service group. Diagrammed for 45/1s or 47/4s, but at a push anything might appear on them. The only people making through journeys were haulage bashers - no "normal" passengers made such a journey.

Politics might also intervene, as (other than services to/from London) all services in Wales get specified by the Welsh Government. Would they vote to spend money on better services to Yorkshire?

 

[318266]

As I awoke to find some Mk5's in my backyard...

1tpd Heysham Port - Morecambe - Lancaster where the train divides

1 portion will go to:
Preston - Bolton - Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport

The other portion will go to: Carlisle - Glasgow Central

Why? The few people on the night ferry from the Isle of Man would rather like to escape Heysham rather quickly, and this is Speculative Ideas.

 

[charley_17/7]

Flixtrain are advertising for Train Planners in Berlin at the moment, but doubt they are interested until their UK coach operation starts seeing results.

Personally, I'd be looking at where there is massive housing expansion for those looking to escape London, but still within quick/easy reach of the capital.

I'd suggest Milton Keynes to Ashford via Stratford International. Links to CrossRail and DLR if the Central London jobs market bounces back.

Otherwise, what about currently unserved/poorly served markets such as Burton - Lichfield, Northwich - Middlewich - Crewe, Wigan - Warrington, Doncaster - Huddersfield, etc?

 

[py_megapixel]

would rather like to escape Heysham rather quickly

Heysham's seafront may look ugly, and there is of course the matter of the huge nuclear plant, but the village of Heysham a little further inland is actually rather nice.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'd suggest Milton Keynes to Ashford via Stratford International. Links to CrossRail and DLR if the Central London jobs market bounces back.

Interesting. How would that be routed?

 

[charley_17/7]

Interesting. How would that be routed?

Isn't there an incline from the NLL though Camden Road towards the HS1 portal? In the other direction: Camden Road via Primrose Hill to the WCML, but a lack of pointwork to the Fast Lines at Camden Jn doesn't help, admittedly!

 

[popeter45]

Isn't there an incline from the NLL though Camden Road towards the HS1 portal? In the other direction: Camden Road via Primrose Hill to the WCML, but a lack of pointwork to the Fast Lines at Camden Jn doesn't help, admittedly!

are there any points to connect the GOBLIN to the WCML Fast at Willesden Junction?
that or it runs on the Slow to Watford

 

[Bald Rick]

Isn't there an incline from the NLL though Camden Road towards the HS1 portal? In the other direction: Camden Road via Primrose Hill to the WCML, but a lack of pointwork to the Fast Lines at Camden Jn doesn't help, admittedly!

Ah yes, albeit never used and not commissioned. Also no paths on WCML or NLL, unless you stop something else of course.