• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Where does Merseyrail get its traction power from?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
Seemingly throughout the BR days and up until quite recently Merseyrail was only connected to the "grid" at 3 places - Bankhall, Shore Road and Bromborough. Searching through SP Energy Networks' documents I have found reference to all 3 of those.

But I've found a RailEngineer article from 2019 that mentions the addition of 3 more (to do with the class 777s) at vague locations, searching on Google Earth historic imagery I have seen works going on in those locations in the last 5 years:
  • (Kirkby branch) Between Long Lane and Walton
    • Construction can be seen at a site near the overbridge of the B5187 (Long Lane) where there was previously nothing (so this would have added a new DC substation too)
  • (Ormskirk branch) Between Maghull North and Town Green
    • In the middle of some fields a way south of Mickering Lane where there was previously nothing (so this would have added a new DC substation too)
  • (New Brighton/West Kirkby branch) "between the new DNO substation building at Birkenhead North and the upgraded substation at Bidston"
    • Can't really see what exactly this is referring to but lots of new stuff has been built around the pre-existing Bidston substation
I've done as much poking around for SP Energy Networks' documents as I can think to figure out and haven't found any clear evidence for connections at those locations, though it doesn't help that I don't know what the names are.

Except! I have found a reference to a 33/11kV connection with Network Rail at Hillside substation (on the Southport branch). See a pdf here if you like. Looking at Google Earth, I can see work took place from 2020 at the site someway south of the passenger station. There's been a DC substation at Hillside for decades considering the cathedral-esque architecture of the item - however, the 2020 work involved adding a new little brick building which is not seen in Long Lane or Aughton South which use only green containerised buildings as is often the case with a Network Rail project.

Hillside is not mentioned at all on the RailEngineer article so did one of the previous locations change after 2019 - or are there four new connections?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
3,577
Location
Lancashire
There is a new Feeder at Hillside, a new upgraded one at Bromborough replacing the old one and a new feeder at Birkenhead North. The original feeders at Bankhall and Shore Road remain
 
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
251
I am surprised (but perhaps shouldn't be) that there is no point of supply along the Chester and Ellesmere Port lines beyond Bromborough. A substantial new traction substation was created just south of Capenhurst station for the 777 project, but I don't recall any trenching outside the railway so I presume there isn't a feeder there - despite the National Grid transmission substation being only a couple of fields away.

The third rail section gap at Capenhurst definitely needed something doing about it. When two 507/8 were booked away from the station at the same time in the morning peak it used to be not uncommon for them to take it in turn to trip each others under-voltage relays and loose power until the southbound train got over the gap and into the next section.
 
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
There is a new Feeder at Hillside, a new upgraded one at Bromborough replacing the old one and a new feeder at Birkenhead North. The original feeders at Bankhall and Shore Road remain
what was the upgrade at Bromborough? Perhaps, a second 33/11 transformer, some imagery of Sandhills ECR from 2009 shows just one there while there's two at Bankhall and Shore Road.
So Aughton South and Long Lane were actually DC only installations with no DNO connections. (Quite the inaccuracy in the magazine article!)

Any idea what 33kV lines Birkenhead North is on. Only because I was able to find this out for Shore Road and Hillside. (SPManweb have a kinda weird way of illustrating single-line diagrams compared to UKPN)1746309980636.png1746310143781.png
A substantial new traction substation was created just south of Capenhurst station for the 777 project,
Oh! I had no idea there was a new TSS there! That one 2019 article only mentioned the conversion of a TP hut to TSS which must be the delightfully named Port Sunlight.
but I don't recall any trenching outside the railway so I presume there isn't a feeder there - despite the National Grid transmission substation being only a couple of fields away.
Merseyrail seem to exclusively connect to the 33kV distribution network (and their internal distribution is all 11kV) - and amusingly there are not a whole lot of 33kV lines at that exact location despite all the 132-400kV lines. In southern England they more often connect at 132kV like the AC lines. I guess the other idea is that it's better to put new grid connections closer in to the centre of the Merseyrail network so that they can cover for each other more easily.
 
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
251
Bromborough used to have one transformer and not a lot of switchgear on the DNO side. It now has two new transformers (the old one gone) and a new DNO 33kV switch building in the old goods yard on the other side of the line (which replaced the last remnant goods shed building). They also trenched new 33kV cables out to Allport Road where they join the DNO network.

I presume the building contains the switchgear needed for the feeder to now be looped in to the 33kV network, and so be supplied from either direction on the circuit if there is a cable fault. Maybe it was a single radial cable previously?

Port Sunlight was upgraded, but I think had a rectifier building already. A new rectifier unit went in just north of Hooton where there wasn't much before.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

In case it isn't obvious, SPManweb network is built out of parallel circuits between single busbars at two different supply sites, rather than (open) rings back to split busbars at the same site. Most of it is run as closed mesh, with very few normally open points. The same applies at 33kV, 11kV and 400V. It allows higher utilisation of the assets whilst retaining enough reserve for faults, but makes the protection a lot more complicated.
 
Last edited:
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
Bromborough used to have one transformer and not a lot of switchgear on the DNO side. It now has two new transformers (the old one gone) and a new DNO 33kV switch building in the old goods yard on the other side of the line (which replaced the last remnant goods shed building). They also trenched new 33kV cables out to Allport Road where they join the DNO network.
Clicking around on Google Earth I can see that the old transformer was removed by March 2022. Can't find much information on what 33kV line this is.1746369025360.png
I presume the building contains the switchgear needed for the feeder to now be looped in to the 33kV network, and so be supplied from either direction on the circuit if there is a cable fault. Maybe it was a single radial cable previously?

Port Sunlight was upgraded, but I think had a rectifier building already. A new rectifier unit went in just north of Hooton where there wasn't much before.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

In case it isn't obvious, SPManweb network is built out of parallel circuits between single busbars at two different supply sites, rather than (open) rings back to split busbars at the same site. Most of it is run as closed mesh, with very few normally open points. The same applies at 33kV, 11kV and 400V. It allows higher utilisation of the assets whilst retaining enough reserve for faults, but makes the protection a lot more complicated.
Does Merseyrail's internal 11kV network operate the same way without many (or any) split points? From what I've seen of the Southeast England 750V network, there are many open points for incoming DNO supplies.
 

Zomboid

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2025
Messages
2,299
Location
Oxford
Does Merseyrail's internal 11kV network operate the same way without many (or any) split points
It has open points - without the open points NR would be paralleling the grid and possibly carrying current from one place to another.
Depending on the transformer windings or the origin of the power, there's no guarantee that one site would even be in phase with another, and connecting out of phase supplies is not a great move.
 
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
I had a closer look at the blurry old pictures of Sandhills ECR from 2009 to find open points - and did some guessing about how the new GSPs have been connected and came up with this illustration. Trying to give each GSP around 4 DC substations except for Bank Hall which has always had a stronger connection I think.
  • I've given Bank Hall A and B 7 and 8 respectively
  • Hillside A and B have 4 each
  • Birkenhead North (i think a single connection) would have taken a lot substations of Shore Rd B specifically and so has 4. Now I think about it, it's possible Bidston has 2 transformer/rectifiers since a lot of building went on there.
  • Shore Road A remains with 4 while the B side has 3 and actually connects through Liverpool Central before going back to James Street.
  • Bromborough A and B have 4 and 3 respectively

    1746449711431.png
View attachment Merseyrail power system map-02.jpg
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
20,326
Do the 1990s era Merseyrail sections include trackside AC feeders at all?

I ask because Southern region appears to have abandoned the traditional 33kV feeder concept in favour of taking whatever local high voltage supplies were available by then.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
3,577
Location
Lancashire
Do the 1990s era Merseyrail sections include trackside AC feeders at all?

I ask because Southern region appears to have abandoned the traditional 33kV feeder concept in favour of taking whatever local high voltage supplies were available by then.
Yes there are 11kV feeder cables trackside between the substations
 
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
Do the 1990s era Merseyrail sections include trackside AC feeders at all?
Rock Ferry to Hooton was in 1985 and would have included Bromborough 33/11kV GSP. Hooton to Chester/Ellesmere port just extended 11kV lines supplied by Bromborough to new DC substations at Mollington and Ellesmere Port.
The Merseyrail system has had an internal distribution system at 11kV since probably the 1970s when Bank Hall GSP came it replacing Formby Power Station. The original 1900s era electrification up to Southport used 7.5kV distribution from Formby Power Station I believe.
I ask because Southern region appears to have abandoned the traditional 33kV feeder concept in favour of taking whatever local high voltage supplies were available by then.
I don't know if they've abandoned it so much as they stopped building significant 3rd rail schemes after the 1960s. Kent Coast did involve a few 132/33kV GSPs. But all the extensions later on in the 1980s/1990s were pretty small. 11kV feeders on Bournemouth to Weymouth gives the line some traffic restrictions. Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction (technically to Mitre Bridge/North Pole depot) was done on the local 22kV supply in 1996, and with a backup 33/22kV from Queens Road on the way into Waterloo. 22kV is indeed the local supply (Acton Lane Grid substation) but is still a fairly strong supply as it was originally intended for Eurostar sets and I've seen class 92s on it. 22kV is also used around London for LUL purposes.

That being said, the East London Line extension to Highbury & Islington for London Overground introduced a new 132/33kV GSP at Hoxton
 
Joined
5 Aug 2015
Messages
911
Location
Norfolk
When the lines were still supplied by Formby Power Station before the 1940s, was it a 25Hz AC system like Southern Region? I've seen that the voltage was 7.5kV rather than 11kV today but not anything on the frequency.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top