Where Did Thameslink Go Wrong?

[thefab444]

I remember being a child and being excited that I could go from my nan's local station (Bookham) to exotic places like Bedford and Luton. Presumably they used to run services all the way to Guildford.

I think they had a very odd calling pattern as well. Fast from Sutton to Epsom, then all stations to Effingham Junction, then Guildford only?

 

[Firestarter]

Did trains from the Thames-link serve South-end as well if so how? I'm guessing they used tottenham north curve tunnel

 

[Aictos]

No as far as I am aware Southend has only been served by Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street and not directly from Thameslink stations.

And that's going from reading various websites, books etc...on the Thameslink route.

 

[thefab444]

Indeed, Thameslink has never served Southend to the best of my knowledge.

 

[jon0844]

Has Thameslink really gone wrong? Could any other operator have done any better? The incident before Christmas was bad, but I still think they were very generous in their compensation afterwards. They did change management once or twice in that period too.

FCC has done a great job on the GN side. If you see people moaning about FCC, chances are extremely high that it will be referring to the Thameslink route - not the GN side. Look up Twitter and follow @firstcc and those who post to it and you'll see.

So, where did they go wrong? Well, when FCC took over in April 2006, wasn't the Thameslink Programme about to begin? It's going to be a nightmare during the construction work and most people should have accepted this by now and made arrangements to cope. There must be light at the end of the tunnel - and it is getting closer all the time.

FCC has also invested a lot in refurbishing/refreshing trains that were incredibly dull and dirty inside. The 377s aren't ideal given they're spec'd out for Southern but they work (most of the time). A lot of the problems are down to problems out of their control though, like the 377s causing delays at Farringdon. FCC also started lots of work at stations to improve them, install lifts and so on. Okay, some of that is Network Rail and some would have happened anyway - but that's pretty irrelevant.

The fact is, the people who moan most are saying FCC should be stripped of its franchise and someone else take over to put in new trains, fix stations and all things that can't be done. As long as people don't realise how the franchising works, they'll always want a TOC to be booted out. Instead, the general public should take their pitchforks to the DfT and demand new rolling stock and investment that isn't down to a company operating a route for 5-10 years.

 

[Firestarter]

Indeed, Thameslink has never served Southend to the best of my knowledge.

Apparently trains from St Pancras use to serve Southend. Check link below. Can anyone give more info? Dates etc

http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/showthread.php?thread=6481

 

[thefab444]

I doubt they were Thameslink services though. Still, interesting to read the Gospel Oak - Barking services originally ran from St Pancras!

 

[W-on-Sea]

Thameslink has certainly never served Southend!

The line that now runs from Barking to Gospel Oak ran, instead to Kentish Town until 1981 or so (but the south curve to Kentish Town was removed shortly after this time, in association with the electrification of the St Pancras-Bedford line & introduction of 317s)

I think the trains that run from St Pancras to Southend Central were mainly (or solely?) summer excursion trains. Not sure if they have run since the days of steam ended! I seem to recall reading that boat trains used to run from St Pancras to Tilbury Riverside too; but again, this is some decades ago.

On the redesign of St Pancras..I have mixed feelings, seemingly like many others. The old terminus was incredibly gloomy (in quite a wonderfully melancholic way), and also very dirty - a real old-school terminus inside, kind of like Marylebone was 20 years ago too, or dare I mention Broad Street in its final years but above all giving off the feel of neglect. Which for a splendid building really couldn't endure. It's great to see it clean and busy and smart, even if some of the walking paths are too lengthy or confusing, and the new building is....well...how to say...hideous in its entire lack of style and charm, and limited facilities. Looking forward to seeing the hotel building back in action, at long last, too. The building really is one of London's gems.

 

[Class377/5]

Has Thameslink really gone wrong? Could any other operator have done any better? The incident before Christmas was bad, but I still think they were very generous in their compensation afterwards. They did change management once or twice in that period too.

FCC has done a great job on the GN side. If you see people moaning about FCC, chances are extremely high that it will be referring to the Thameslink route - not the GN side. Look up Twitter and follow @firstcc and those who post to it and you'll see.

So, where did they go wrong? Well, when FCC took over in April 2006, wasn't the Thameslink Programme about to begin? It's going to be a nightmare during the construction work and most people should have accepted this by now and made arrangements to cope. There must be light at the end of the tunnel - and it is getting closer all the time.

FCC has also invested a lot in refurbishing/refreshing trains that were incredibly dull and dirty inside. The 377s aren't ideal given they're spec'd out for Southern but they work (most of the time). A lot of the problems are down to problems out of their control though, like the 377s causing delays at Farringdon. FCC also started lots of work at stations to improve them, install lifts and so on. Okay, some of that is Network Rail and some would have happened anyway - but that's pretty irrelevant.

The fact is, the people who moan most are saying FCC should be stripped of its franchise and someone else take over to put in new trains, fix stations and all things that can't be done. As long as people don't realise how the franchising works, they'll always want a TOC to be booted out. Instead, the general public should take their pitchforks to the DfT and demand new rolling stock and investment that isn't down to a company operating a route for 5-10 years.

A lot of the problems with the 377/5 was FCC had no choice and had to press them into service.

By reflection the NXEMU's are expected to have 18-24 months of full testing on the route before any passengers are allowed on. Most of the 377/5 had 2,000 miles testing with Southern and then they were expected to run as soon as the they hit FCC. (Alot of them moved to FCC and went into service the next day). One issue at Farringdon was a voltage problem and the 377/5 software being to picky about it.

FCC did plan on testing them and the last ones were 12 months late. Hell FCC even had a press event planned to name 377501 on the old bay platform 1 at Blackfriars. In the end the first unit wasn't with FCC for another 8 weeks.

The latest management change has results in a more focus approach and alot of work is going on making sure things go right. And it is working.

 

[jon0844]

A lot of the problems with the 377/5 was FCC had no choice and had to press them into service.

And, as you said, they were extremely late. It was not First's fault that the trains were delivered late, and then had a range of faults on them. Trains they didn't order or specify.

All a nonsense really.

But no TOC could ever explain the cause of the problems, or blame the DfT, unless they wanted out of the railway industry for good.

 

[b0b]

The line that now runs from Barking to Gospel Oak ran, instead to Kentish Town until 1981 or so (but the south curve to Kentish Town was removed shortly after this time, in association with the electrification of the St Pancras-Bedford line & introduction of 317s)

Does anyone have a map of this area showing this link, that is fascinating to me!

 

[A60K]

By reflection the NXEMU's are expected to have 18-24 months of full testing on the route before any passengers are allowed on.

Are you sure about that? AIUI the first carriages are in an advanced stage of construction at the moment, and should be formed into a working train within a couple of months. Assuming all goes well the first unit should be delivered to NXEA in December 2010 or January 2011 - are they seriously going to be testing and not allow any passengers on umtil June 2012? Or is there something route-related that will prevent them coming into service earlier?

 

[Class377/5]

Are you sure about that? AIUI the first carriages are in an advanced stage of construction at the moment, and should be formed into a working train within a couple of months. Assuming all goes well the first unit should be delivered to NXEA in December 2010 or January 2011 - are they seriously going to be testing and not allow any passengers on umtil June 2012? Or is there something route-related that will prevent them coming into service earlier?

That's the 379 electrostars.

The NXEMU are the new trains that FCC are getting as part of the Thameslink project. They are basically the Electrostar or Desiro v2 from the remaining bidders.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's the 379 electrostars.

The NXEMU are the new trains that FCC are getting as part of the Thameslink project. They are basically the Electrostar or Desiro v2 from the remaining bidders.

The Bombardier offer is the 'Aventra' by some accounts, apparently the 172 and 379 are to be the last Turbo/Electrostar variants...

 

[A60K]

That's the 379 electrostars.

The NXEMU are the new trains that FCC are getting as part of the Thameslink project. They are basically the Electrostar or Desiro v2 from the remaining bidders.

Ah, got it, sorry - early morning confusion! I was getting worried then about the new NXEA units sitting around for a year or two before coming into service - although given recent experience with 378s and 2009 Stock on the Victoria line that wouldn't completely surprise me...

 

[Firestarter]

Does anyone have a map of this area showing this link, that is fascinating to me!

No map but more info. Services from Moorgate-East Ham, St Pancras-Norwich.

http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/history.htm

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone have a map of this area showing this link, that is fascinating to me!

It's fairly clear where the line ran if you look at one of the 'aerial view' websites such as Multimap, or Google Maps, Google Earth etc, or even the equivalent OS map.

If you find the curve to the south east of Gospel Oak station that connects the Goblin to the MML, you'll see straight away where the equivalent connection was in the direction of Kentish Town. The junction names were Mortimer St JN (north end) and Engine Shed Jn (south).

Hope that's of some use.