Where are all these new Voyager sets?

[irish_rail]

Since the May timetable change, there isn't a single booked double set out of Plymouth until 1227! Why, with all these new additional Avanti sets is the southern portion of the SW to NE axis being treated so badly? And looking on RTT it seems half of the sets this morning out of Plymouth are 4s not even 5s!!!! What on earth is going so wrong with Voyager diagramming???

 

[The Planner]

Avanti sets means more existing ones go for refurb presumably, so extras don't become noticeable.

 

[irish_rail]

Avanti sets means more existing ones go for refurb presumably, so extras don't become noticeable.

It's not a case of extras though, we now have FEWER double sets plus an increase in 4 car sets! I find it hard to believe that 10 or so additional sets can actually lead to a decrease in seats on a route! Unless of course we are paying the price to allow most Bournemouth trains to be 5s and doubles......

 

[Snow1964]

Cross Country said all 60 extra vehicles would be in service last month.

The 12 extra trains - totalling 60 additional carriages - will strengthen CrossCountry’s long-distance services from May 2025, increasing capacity on north-south routes by over 36,000 seats per week. Combined with a new timetable proposed from May 2025, rail users will see more services as well as longer trains across the network – particularly on CrossCountry’s busy Reading to Newcastle corridor.

If they aren't in service, or they are not operating over 36,000 seats per week then it was a lie / falsehood / blatant mistruth (choose preferred description option).

Note it also says longer trains across the network (not some longer), which in normal English (not XC mis-speak) would imply all would be longer.

Bigger fleet, more seats: CrossCountry reveals plans to transform customer experience by May 2025 | CrossCountry

Train operator announces massive expansion to long-distance fleet, transforming journeys with around 25% more seats available than today.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

 

[DarloRich]

Cross Country said all 60 extra vehicles would be in service last month.

they all may be - however, as suggested above, if that has meant 60 "original" vehicles have gone for refurbishment then you are no further forward.

Trust me - I am no fan of XC but I don't see a conspiracy here!

EVERYONE knows XC need an order of new trains, preferably an 800 a like hybrid vehicle. They wont get them though...............

 

[irish_rail]

But how on earth can they explain not a single booked double set out of the south west before the afternoon? That's 7 trains in a row all booked a 4 or 5 car set. It just doesn't seem possible that it can be quite that bad , even with sets off for refurbishment.... leisure travellers in the south west shouldn't be forced to wait until the afternoon just to stand a chance of a walk up seat, especially if making a long distance trip , infact you can't get to Birmingham before 1600 if you want to hang on for a double set!!! This is crazy!

 

[Snow1964]

they all may be - however, as suggested above, if that has meant 60 "original" vehicles have gone for refurbishment then you are no further forward.

But why advertise 36000 extra seats if substituting one train for another of same size, that logic makes no sense either.

 

[43055]

Avanti sets means more existing ones go for refurb presumably, so extras don't become noticeable.

I don't believe any voyagers have gone yet?

Since the May timetable change, there isn't a single booked double set out of Plymouth until 1227! Why, with all these new additional Avanti sets is the southern portion of the SW to NE axis being treated so badly? And looking on RTT it seems half of the sets this morning out of Plymouth are 4s not even 5s!!!! What on earth is going so wrong with Voyager diagramming???

The 0620 appears to be booked for a 5 car but today is a 4 for some reason. The 0727 joins with another set at Bristol which arrives on the 0742 from Birmingham and the 0827 becomes a double at Birmingham joining with a portion from Cardiff. On Saturdays the 0827 appears to be a double set throughout.

 

[DarloRich]

But why advertise 36000 extra seats if substituting one train for another of same size, that logic makes no sense either.

because they HAVE secured 36000 new seats - it is called spin.

 

[Iskra]

But how on earth can they explain not a single booked double set out of the south west before the afternoon? That's 7 trains in a row all booked a 4 or 5 car set. It just doesn't seem possible that it can be quite that bad , even with sets off for refurbishment.... leisure travellers in the south west shouldn't be forced to wait until the afternoon just to stand a chance of a walk up seat, especially if making a long distance trip , infact you can't get to Birmingham before 1600 if you want to hang on for a double set!!! This is crazy!

…because it isn’t the busiest part of the network and as there is another operator on the route it isn’t seen as a priority area with an overstretched fleet? Granted, the sunshine may have suddenly increased passenger demand but few TOC’s have the spare capacity to deal with that, so it seems unfair to single out XC alone.

From my recent non-scientific observations in Yorkshire, I am seeing more double sets and increased capacity. As stated already, XC needs a transformative rolling stock order of 80X stock, and I do think it will be next in line for one.

 

[sir_gummerz]

The extra capacity has been mainly focused on making the Manchester-Bournemouth trains all a minimum of 5 cars

 

[irish_rail]

…because it isn’t the busiest part of the network and as there is another operator on the route it isn’t seen as a priority area with an overstretched fleet? Granted, the sunshine may have suddenly increased passenger demand but few TOC’s have the spare capacity to deal with that, so it seems unfair to single out XC alone.

From my recent non-scientific observations in Yorkshire, I am seeing more double sets and increased capacity. As stated already, XC needs a transformative rolling stock order of 80X stock, and I do think it will be next in line for one.

This is completely disingenuous as unlike Yorkshire where there are alternative TOCs to get from A to B, anyone travelling from Plymouth to Birmingham is completely restricted to using XC. The one bit where there is an alternative is Plymouth to Bristol, however this involves a 3 hour journey, instead of 2 on XC , hardly a realistic alternative for most. Quite simply, the SW is pretty dependent on XC for anyone not heading London way, and that's why it's such a shambles that for some reason it has suddenly become the poor relation on the "axis'.

 

[irish_rail]

The extra capacity has been mainly focused on making the Manchester-Bournemouth trains all a minimum of 5 cars

Then XC should be open with us and say that the extra capacity is on the Bournemouth route and that the Plymouth one will suffer as a result. At least if they had been open and honest there is a small chance MPs may have stepped in and got involved ( though admittedly I doubt it ).

 

[swt_passenger]

The extra capacity has been mainly focused on making the Manchester-Bournemouth trains all a minimum of 5 cars

I think more are doubled to Bournemouth as well, although it’s still not that many, it’s more than the previous timetable. I suppose it’s possible XC think Bournemouth‘s more important than Devon…

 

[3RDGEN]

A search on Realtime Trains for Derby XC shows 16 Scotland/North East to South West services each way and today eight are doubles the rest a mix of 4 or 5's, along with a few extra Reading/Birmingham to North East services there has been an uplift in capacity to Yorkshire / North East. I checked the Bournemouth route after the timetable change and it appeared to have had an extra double diagram added with mostly 5's on the rest.

It was reported three units would be needed for the refurb program once in full swing so it's possible XC aren't diagramming three units currently since they would need to cut train lengths later for the refurb program which would just generate more complaints. If that's the case they gained six extra units in May and at least one of them will be on maintenance so it's possible they have gained five units in service, hopefully once the refurb finishes we will see further units in service.

 

[Iskra]

This is completely disingenuous as unlike Yorkshire where there are alternative TOCs to get from A to B, anyone travelling from Plymouth to Birmingham is completely restricted to using XC. The one bit where there is an alternative is Plymouth to Bristol, however this involves a 3 hour journey, instead of 2 on XC , hardly a realistic alternative for most. Quite simply, the SW is pretty dependent on XC for anyone not heading London way, and that's why it's such a shambles that for some reason it has suddenly become the poor relation on the "axis'.

There is no alternative to get to Birmingham from Yorkshire.

Yes, the exact same choice as what we have where there is a choice; slower ones.

The South West is not a heavily populated area, and XC is a secondary flow down there. It is only sensible for XC to concentrate their rolling stock where the majority of passengers are, and I’m sure they’ve ‘done the maths’ on that one.

 

[Bald Rick]

It is really quite simple. XC have put the extra stock on the diagrams that needed the extra capacity the most.

 

[Aventra]

I believe the main issue is the lack of overnight stabling / fuelling / CET facilities at the extremities of the XC Network. Such as Laira in Plymouth, I don’t believe they have the capacity to accept anymore XC units than previously agreed to. I believe some outstabling locations have capacity to increase the daily allocation of units, such as Eastleigh & Barton Hill. But where XC borrow the space on another TOC’s depot, the main TOC understandably puts their own needs first.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It is really quite simple. XC have put the extra stock on the diagrams that needed the extra capacity the most.

Absolutely.

I have travelled regularly Yorkshire to Cornwall using these services and the fact is that usually past Bristol, and definitely past Exeter it isn't as busy. Getting on at Plymouth I've regularly been the only person in a coach.

So sets are focussed. What I'd expect them to do when they don't have enough stock.

 

[irish_rail]

Absolutely.

I have travelled regularly Yorkshire to Cornwall using these services and the fact is that usually past Bristol, and definitely past Exeter it isn't as busy. Getting on at Plymouth I've regularly been the only person in a coach.

So sets are focussed. What I'd expect them to do when they don't have enough stock.

Only one in the coach??? Are you serious? I'd love to hear the views of those poor passengers standing for 35 minutes from Taunton into Bristol on the 0620 ex Plymouth, as to why standing from York to Leeds is unacceptable, yet there commute isn't deemed worthy of a seat. Are they paying significantly less than there Yorkshire counterparts I wonder.....

But the biggie here is the fact that the journeys from the South west to Bristol and Birmingham are between 2 and 4 hours. It's a proper length intercity journey, and a long time to be standing or squeezed into a non leg room seat. Plymouth to Birmingham takes longer than London to Newcastle, and I doubt very much that anyone is happy for that flow to have standees on it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Only one in the coach??? Are you serious? I'd love to hear the views of those poor passengers standing for 35 minutes from Taunton into Bristol on the 0620 ex Plymouth, as to why standing from York to Leeds is unacceptable, yet there commute isn't deemed worthy of a seat. Are they paying significantly less than there Yorkshire counterparts I wonder.....

But the biggie here is the fact that the journeys from the South west to Bristol and Birmingham are between 2 and 4 hours. It's a proper length intercity journey, and a long time to be standing or squeezed into a non leg room seat. Plymouth to Birmingham takes longer than London to Newcastle, and I doubt very much that anyone is happy for that flow to have standees on it.

Yes I'm serious. It would have been a pretty unfunny joke, I prefer knock knock jokes personally.

I said at Plymouth I've got on and been only one in the coach, so Taunton to Bristol has nothing to do with it.

I also never said that people in York deserve seats more... The numbers tell you as does many people's experience that the route is much busier north of Bristol, so it's not a suprise that extra carriages are focussed there when they don't have enough. This isn't sayings it's acceptable or right, it's saying if I was them and had only that many carriages I too would focus them there. There is logic to their decision making in my opinion.

Elsewhere on the forum, I've made my view clear that cross country should have an 80X bimode 8 carriages long to operate all SW-NE services to give it sufficient capacity throughout and no doubling up, Train Manager issues, splitting issues and make sure it has enough capacity and ca. Start absorbing some of that suppressed demand.

So yes I was serious...

 

[Mag_seven]

I think we are starting to enter into the territory of solutions for XC overcrowding so can I please direct everyone to this thread:

Cross Country Voyager overcrowding: What can be done about it?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cross-country-voyagers-rear-set-locked-out-of-use.287454/ New trains have got to be ordered ASAP, and/or XC needs to be cut back to run double sets on all voyager services. The focus should be, in my opinion, the Northeast >...

www.railforums.co.uk

thanks all