When will someone do something about CrossCountry

[Mogz]

Another day, another commute.

Another four car 220.

Packed and standing throughout.

Passengers with the 10 minute reservations awkwardly kicking confused people out of their seats.

Tempers a little frayed as passengers ask to be able to get past, but there’s nowhere to move to.

First Class probably empty (I’ve never seen it declassified) taking up a full quarter of the train. No standing in the First Class aisle or vestibule on pain of excess fares.

I’ve made speculative suggestions about CrossCountry in the past- more destinations- high quality stock with continental style amenities for the longest distance journeys, (family compartments, more tables, restaurants, buffets etc).

I renounce all such unrealistic expectations and instead make a single plea:

“More carriages per service, please?”

I suppose even that is too much to ask.

 

[221129]

More carriages per service, please?”

And where do these carriages miraculously come from? And what can XC do if the DFT wont allow them to get additional stock?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Extra 221 trains from 2022. Only HSTs avaliable

 

[xc170]

And where do these carriages miraculously come from? And what can XC do if the DFT wont allow them to get additional stock?

It could be solved overnight, if the DFT wanted...

Off lease GWR HST's, grant a derogation until upgrade to PRM spec.

Of course, this is far too sensible so won't be done and the FARE PAYING passengers will continue to suffer.

 

[Master29]

Sounds like Cross Country to a tee. You make some good points. It can be pretty hair raising travelling with them at times and this is by no means a new subject. Sadly, I doubt any of your suggestions will be offered. To be fair their HST's are really nice so adding to them sounds a good idea. Not sure this will ever happen however.

 

[221129]

It could be solved overnight, if the DFT wanted...

Off lease GWR HST's, grant a derogation until upgrade to PRM spec.

Of course, this is far too sensible so won't be done and the FARE PAYING passengers will continue to suffer.

Exactly, the DfT arent interested. Therein lies the problem!

 

[diffident]

Sounds like Cross Country to a tee. You make some good points. It can be pretty hair raising travelling with them at times and this is by no means a new subject. Sadly, I doubt any of your suggestions will be offered. To be fair their HST's are really nice so adding to them sounds a good idea. Not sure about this however.

It should be done. With all the off-lease HST's, there is really no excuse. As for the PRM mods, we've left the EU, so what are they going to do about it? A simple amendment by the DfT in parliament would suffice.

I'll repeat, there really is not an excuse where XC are concerned. What is lacking on all sides, Arriva and DfT, is the will to act. That's why both should be quite frankly ashamed of themselves in how they are running the franchise.

Action is required, and urgently, not the blame game between all of the parties involved.

-rant over-

 

[swt_passenger]

It should be done. With all the off-lease HST's, there is really no excuse. As for the PRM mods, we've left the EU, so what are they going to do about it? A simple amendment by the DfT in parliament would suffice.

I'll repeat, there really is not an excuse where XC are concerned. What is lacking on all sides, Arriva and DfT, is the will to act. That's why both should be quite frankly ashamed of themselves in how they are running the franchise.

Action is required, and urgently, not the blame game between all of the parties involved.

-rant over-

The PRM mods deadline isn’t required by the EU, it’s a UK agreed date...

 

[diffident]

The PRM mods deadline isn’t required by the EU, it’s a UK agreed date...

Hence why I said a simple bill in parliament from the DfT would suffice.

 

[221129]

The PRM mods deadline isn’t required by the EU, it’s a UK agreed date...

And the fact that the EU legislation didnt require a lot of the things that the UK government made a requirement.

 

[NoMorePacers]

It should be done. With all the off-lease HST's, there is really no excuse. As for the PRM mods, we've left the EU, so what are they going to do about it? A simple amendment by the DfT in parliament would suffice.

I'll repeat, there really is not an excuse where XC are concerned. What is lacking on all sides, Arriva and DfT, is the will to act. That's why both should be quite frankly ashamed of themselves in how they are running the franchise.

Action is required, and urgently, not the blame game between all of the parties involved.

-rant over-

I will only say that the PRM regulations for old stock was something that the UK government enforced by their own volition.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hence why I said a simple bill in parliament from the DfT would suffice.

But why would they do that?

 

[diffident]

I will only say that the PRM regulations for old stock was something that the UK government enforced by their own volition.

So could be, as I've said a few times, by act of parliament - either relaxed or removed completely.

But why would they do that?

Why not? There is a clear capacity issue on XC. I see it, and experience it every day. The difference between a four-car Voyager and a 7-car HST would be massive when going through Birmingham in both rush-hours.

Rail usage is going up and up and up, capacity on the network needs to be increased to accommodate. This seems like a very effective way to meet those needs, with the rolling stock seemingly readily available.

 

[bramling]

It should be done. With all the off-lease HST's, there is really no excuse. As for the PRM mods, we've left the EU, so what are they going to do about it? A simple amendment by the DfT in parliament would suffice.

I'll repeat, there really is not an excuse where XC are concerned. What is lacking on all sides, Arriva and DfT, is the will to act. That's why both should be quite frankly ashamed of themselves in how they are running the franchise.

Action is required, and urgently, not the blame game between all of the parties involved.

-rant over-

Can HSTs, especially full-length ones, keep time without needing the whole timetable to be recast?

Having said that, replacing a few 5-car Voyagers with short HSTs would at least release some Voyagers.

I agree PRM shouldn’t be a roadblock, as any train is better than a short heavily overcrowded one.

 

[221129]

It's also possible that slam door Mk3s are no longer on XCs safety case. And it wont be that long until Train Managers will no longer sign slam door HSTs.

 

[swt_passenger]

The current political climate regarding derogations is clearly shown in the various letters issued to individual TOCs regarding dated approvals for specific types of rolling stock.

The likelihood of a complete about turn to allow XC to introduce more HSTs is pure fantasy; no matter how many new threads it gets posted in...

 

[StephenHunter]

What about Mark 4s and 67s?

 

[43096]

What about Mark 4s and 67s?

What about them? Not likely for XC for many reasons.

 

[StephenHunter]

What about them? Not likely for XC for many reasons.

Let's hear them.

 

[221129]

Let's hear them.

Cost?
Timings?
Traction knowledge?
Route Clearance?
The cost of the above?

 

[The Planner]

Cost?
Timings?
Traction knowledge?
Route Clearance?
The cost of the above?

Details...

 

[Starmill]

Not this year, not next year, probably not in the year after that.

Maybe after that though, some improvement in capacity might be delivered to passengers.

I understand XC have policy not to declassify First Class, and to enforceme reservations when not displayed. Certainly that's what they've told me. You can't stop them from doing that, and changing their minds would cost them money so I would imagine it's highly unlikely.

The government would rather these things didn't change too; not unless lots of extra ticket or other revenue is going to start coming up at XC. The franchise is already deeply unattractive on commercial terms, so bad that they couldn't attract a single extra bidder to contest the incumbent's at the competition.

 

[Starmill]

Hence why I said a simple bill in parliament from the DfT would suffice.

There's no need for a new Act of Parliament. The Secretary of State can issue the required derogation(s). You can't make him, though.

All that's needed generally is for the DfT to agree to a small increase in current spending. They won't, though. The Treasury is demanding quite the opposite of them in the coming years!

 

[Llanigraham]

It should be done. With all the off-lease HST's, there is really no excuse.

And do they have drivers and guards for these units? If not, where do you intend getting them from?

As for the PRM mods, we've left the EU, so what are they going to do about it? A simple amendment by the DfT in parliament would suffice.

Good luck with getting that through Parliament; I think they have a lot more important things on their plate at the moment.

I'll repeat, there really is not an excuse where XC are concerned. What is lacking on all sides, Arriva and DfT, is the will to act. That's why both should be quite frankly ashamed of themselves in how they are running the franchise.

Action is required, and urgently, not the blame game between all of the parties involved.

-rant over-

Sorry, but I think you will find plenty of people have pointed out the error in your "arguement".

 

[Grecian 1998]

There have been severe problems with overcrowding on XC since Operation Princess in 2002. That was over 17 years ago. In that time a few destinations were cut out and 5 HSTs were acquired by the franchise holder, although between 2-4 are in use on any given day. There was an attempt in 2016 to shift stock around and reduce services on the fringes to improve them in the core - but as the fringes complained and the core said little, not much changed except Bristol-Exeter got a few more afternoon services.

Unfortunately XC doesn't serve London and it isn't perceived as a 'local' operator by any urban area, even though it is effectively is on some routes, particularly around Birmingham. This means politicians tend to ignore it. It's a shame there isn't an obvious way to persuade TfWM to champion it as a 'local' operator alongside WMR given TfN has had some success with TPE along with Northern (albeit the implementation hasn't been spectacular) given it is after all centred on Birmingham. Politicians agitating to keep their constituents happy often has a remarkable effect of losing the purse strings.

I think TfWM have proposed that WMR should get the Birmingham-Nottingham and Birmingham-Leicester services as they are clearly far more commuter services than long-distance. If they did, they might simply get the same stock XC now have, but if they obtained additional stock, it might allow XC to increase capacity on the Cheltenham-Derby corridor which the Cardiff-Nottingham services share with the Plymouth-Edinburgh services. It wouldn't be much but better than nothing.

Also unfortunately, as much as significant overcrowding has been a feature on XC services through the core for nearly 20 years, there appears to be very little agitation about it which might persuade the DfT that something needs to be done and swiftly. No-one who makes any decisions which matter will therefore see it as a priority.

However much people want to see more HSTs, it has very little chance of happening. The following might happen over the next few years if we're lucky:

XC get the West Coast Voyagers, allowing many more services to be doubled up.

XC get EMR Meridians when they're replaced. Granted they can't work in multiple with Voyagers but then neither can HSTs.

XC manage to get new bi-mode trains which would be particularly useful on the Manchester services given how long they run under the wires and the abysmal lack of capacity for journeys between the supposed second and third cities of England. The similar operation which is TPE managed to get bi-modes for Liverpool-Newcastle which seem to be quite popular so far. Of course this options costs more than the other two.

For now though the best advice anyone can get who uses XC Voyagers to commute is try to find a service which is normally 5 carriages and work out which end Coach A (1st class) is. Try to use the door next to coach B (unreserved) and you can probably walk into coach B before anyone else. You're encouraged to use all available doors and providing you walk through immediately, you aren't remaining in first class any longer than necessary. Granted you can reserve seats, but if you can't get through to your reserved seat, at least you know in coach B no-one can reserve your seat. 4 carriages on the other hand - good luck with that.

 

[JonathanH]

It could be solved overnight

You make it sound so easy to introduce additional rolling stock. It clearly isn't because the rolling stock needs to be serviced and, even if you don't need extra staff to run a HST or perhaps even a double Voyager, you still need people and depot capacity to service them.

So, not overnight and possibly not even immediately that 221s or 222s become available if the figures don't stack up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interesting that the OP refers to a "commute" - is not part of the issue that they are even carrying commuters?

 

[Master29]

A very insightful post Grecian which sums up the entire situation I think.

 

[JonathanH]

It's interesting that the OP refers to a "commute" - is not part of the issue that they are even carrying commuters?

As opposed to what? Some people commute fairly large distances - if someone lives in Derby and commutes to Birmingham, should they go by car, crowded 170 or crowded 220? That isn't outside a commutable distance - it is less than Milton Keynes to London.

 

[Purple Orange]

It's interesting that the OP refers to a "commute" - is not part of the issue that they are even carrying commuters?

Should it make a difference? It’s a reflection of how we use the railway. I work in Manchester, but I often need to travel to Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool & London for 9am (usually get there at 10). I refer to my journey to those cities as a commute. At approximately 7:30am, I will be starting my commute to Birmingham for the day and will be heading back to Manchester at about 5pm following a day in the Brum office.