When will restrictions finally end?

[DB]

To be honest I still don’t see the value in closing non-essential shops. I think it would be more beneficial to have as much open as possible, in order to spread people around. Any notion of “stay at home” is a complete farce - people simply aren’t doing it, so any policy centred around that (as tier 4 is) is simply a fallacy.

Quite. People just won't stay at home - the local town centre (tier 2, now 3) has been as busy as normal for weeks now. Most shops (apart from M&S) seem to have abandoned queueing.

 

[Hadders]

I'm fully supportive of people who want to go out and enjoy fresh air; being confined to homes is no good for anybody. Given there is little to no evidence of the virus being spread outside, I'm vehemently against any restrictions on outdoor activities.

I suspected this was the case and agree with you

 

[bramling]

One farce, even though quite welcoming for most of us, is that we are allowed out for unlimited exercise on our own. So the instruction "Stay at home unless it's for unlimited exercise" is as good as a contradiction.

The thing which bugs me most on the walks (apart from the mud!) is the fuss some people make when passing. Whilst one tries as much as possible to blank it out, I find it contributes to a slightly hostile atmosphere, precisely the opposite of what a rural walk should be. Round my way it's legion - dagger looks and under-the-breath comments. Then there's landowners out in 4x4s looking for people straying off the official footpaths, something we had locally back in March too.

Still, I suppose I have work for enjoying my own company!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2021 ==

Absolutely agree with you. A quiet walk round my way is now nothing of the sort as walking is just about the only leisure activity that people can do at the moment.

I agree that non-essential retail should be open, better for people to be able to engage in leisure activity in a controlled environment (which non-essential retail is as long as they follow covid secure guidelines) rather than piling round each others houses as there's nothing better to do. Also better for the economy.

The piling around each other's houses I think is quite a big thing, as like you say this is completely uncontrolled. It's quite clearly happening, unless lots of people have taken to driving round aimlessly in the evenings just for the fun of it!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

More ‘illegal gatherings’ took place in Hyde Park yesterday, with police selectively arresting people.

Around the 13-minute mark, a young woman is heard telling a female police officer that legislation and the law are not the same thing (she means regulations, I think, which is a pity)

Shortly after, a man is arrested for the heinous crime of hugging after giving police some verbals

Most disturbing at 1:36:50 a man is grabbed and wrestled to the ground, where one officer is perilously close to kneeling on the guy’s neck

 

[Mag_seven]

I suppose its only a question of time before a new "variant"/"mutation" is found that "spreads more easily outdoors".

 

[DB]

Disability hate tcrime is slowly going up as people are blaming the vulnerable for these restrictions. Ive got MS yet ive kept on driving buses in lockdown snd I've been subject to verbal abuse

Disgusting, but unfortunately very predicatable given the way in which the government and media are deliberately setting people against each other. Only a couple of days ago at least one of the newspapers had a headline with a quote from an ICU doctor claiming that rule breakers 'had blood on their hands'. There is just so much wrong with this - firstly, any Christmas 'rule breaking' wouldn't have begun to translate into hospital admissions at that point anyway. Also, there seems to be no acceptance that a virus like this is going to peak at around this time of year and it's not anybody's 'fault'. It's taken as read, too, that if everybody followed the restrictions it would make a notable difference, when in fact this is far from proven - many of the restrictions are being seen to be doing something and unlikely to actually make much difference even if followed religiously by everyone.

There is also the fundamantal issue of humans thinking that they are exceptional - in any other species it would just be regarded as a natural feedback response to the species becoming too numerous.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I suppose its only a question of time before a new "variant"/"mutation" is found that "spreads more easily outdoors".

Discovered at the precise time tier 5 or a new national lockdown is announced.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I suppose its only a question of time before a new "variant"/"mutation" is found that "spreads more easily outdoors".

I predict an outbreak of hidden disabilities and orders for sunflower lanyards to rocket

 

[philjo]

They can get stuffed - what if your nearest shop is one of those over priced convenience stores with a very limited supply. It's not the job of the state to dictate where I get my food shopping.

My cousin in Italy received a document from the local authority back in March stipulating which supermarket had to be used and was also allocated a specific 1 hour time slot each week when she was permitted to enter that store. The document had to be stamped by the supermarket. As result there was no queuing at the store and no shortage of goods on the shelves.
Access to the local Pharmacy and the bakers was not restricted.


A friend in Spain was stopped and turned back by police when trying to walk to a pharmacy in another village as he had already passed the local pharmacy en route.

 

[BJames]

That news site that is reporting doesn't look particularly reputable to me so I'd probably reserve anger until there is a better source.

Actually I agree - looking at the article in detail, it's five days old, and this bit:

If he decides shortly with his advisors, it’s fully the way to go forward and the only way to combat the virus, I expect it to be announced very shortly, before heading into the new year”

has clearly not come to fruition. Fingers crossed you're right and they are indeed misinformed or are inaccurately reporting.

 

[Mag_seven]

My cousin in Italy received a document from the local authority back in March stipulating which supermarket had to be used and was also allocated a specific 1 hour time slot each week when she was permitted to enter that store. The document had to be stamped by the supermarket. As result there was no queuing at the store and no shortage of goods on the shelves.
Access to the local Pharmacy and the bakers was not restricted.


A friend in Spain was stopped and turned back by police when trying to walk to a pharmacy in another village as he had already passed the local pharmacy en route.

Yes and look how well Spain and Italy did.....

 

[DB]

Yes and look how well Spain and Italy did.....

But as we know, if resrictions don't have any effect the answer is always to do more of what isn't working...

 

[C J Snarzell]

But as we know, if resrictions don't have any effect the answer is always to do more of what isn't working...

I reckon Boris and other key figures are going to go down in flames come the May local elections.

CJ

 

[Cdd89]

I reckon Boris and other key figures are going to go down in flames come the May local elections.

I’m amazed Boris hasn’t seen how damaging this narrative is. By constantly giving in to restrictions when they “seem inevitable”, he makes the opposition look like they were right in calling for them to be tightened ever further, and attracts questions about why they weren’t implemented earlier. I would have thought the politically sound strategy is not to make interventions and rely on the spread to naturally decrease which one way or another it will.

 

[brad465]

I’m amazed Boris hasn’t seen how damaging this narrative is. By constantly giving in to restrictions when they “seem inevitable”, he makes the opposition look like they were right in calling for them to be tightened ever further, and attracts questions about why they weren’t implemented earlier. I would have thought the politically sound strategy is not to make interventions and rely on the spread to naturally decrease which one way or another it will.

On that subject, I'm seeing breaking news reports coming through Sir Kier Starmer is calling for national restrictions to be announced in the next 24 hours, so if the trend of previous opposition statements leading to Government action is anything to go by, there'll be new national restrictions in 48 hours

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55521747

Regional restrictions in England are "probably about to get tougher" to curb rising Covid infections, the prime minister has warned.

Boris Johnson told the BBC stronger measures may be required in parts of the country in the coming weeks.

He said this included the possibility of keeping schools closed, although this is not "something we want to do".

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has called for new England-wide restrictions within 24 hours.

Sir Keir said coronavirus was "clearly out of control" and it was "inevitable more schools are going to have to close."

It sounds like Starmer is currently focusing more on schools for now as where new restrictions should be.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I would have thought the politically sound strategy is not to make interventions and rely on the spread to naturally decrease which one way or another it will.

Never contemplate going into politics if you think the politically sound strategy is to do nothing whilst large numbers of vulnerable people are dying and the media are going hysterical. You might want that strategy but to suggest it is one any government could even consider is fantasy.

 

[DB]

Regional restrictions in England are "probably about to get tougher" to curb rising Covid infections, the prime minister has warned.

But they won't 'curb rising Covid infections', will they? These restrictions never do - at most they cause a slight slowing down (if that), and given the low levels of compliance now with the ever-changing restrictions, they will probably have no effect at all (apart from economic and social damage, of course - but that clearly doesn't matter to the government).

And as usual, it's impossible to demonstrate that current restrictions haven't worked as they never give it any time - as soon as they are enacted, they immediately move on to clamouring for another change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2021 ==

Never contemplate going into politics if you think the politically sound strategy is to do nothing whilst large numbers of vulnerable people are dying and the media are going hysterical. You might want that strategy but to suggest it is one any government could even consider is fantasy.

The messaging needs to be honest - a virus is a natural occurrence, and pretending that it can be 'controlled' is just pretence. It is quite clear from looking at the stats that worldwide there is absolutely no correlation between number of cases/deaths, and the measures taken to 'beat the virus' - but even now, with the data available, hardly any politicians will admit it. Countries are inflicting massive social and economic problems on themselves - problems which will last for years - with literally no benefit at all.

The detractors of Sweden are busy shouting that Sweden has 'got it wrong' because some of their politicians are now getting twitchy, but a quick look at the graphs shows that Sweden is still doing far better than any of the European countries which have gone hysterical (Italy, Spain, France, UK, etc).

 

[Andyh82]

As other forum members have mentioned, Boris Johnson's position as PM is becoming more and more untenable. If he does try to push tight restrictions until the middle of the year (6 months away) he's going to come under a revolt from the back benchers. There is also the May local elections to consider so the likelihood is BJ will be toast by the summer.

CJ

Based on what Labour has just come up with, this hasn’t aged well.

 

[DB]

Based on what Labour has just come up with, this hasn’t aged well.

Labour are just as bad, but the point is that the Tories are in government, so they are the ones who will get blamed when the true fallout of this situation becomes apparent - which it's likely to within the first half of this year.

 

[brad465]

Based on what Labour has just come up with, this hasn’t aged well.

Apologies if I've misread this, but do you mean Labour suggesting it means it's their fault/responsibility? Like with the other moves the Government have done that Labour have suggested in one form or another before, as soon as the Government caved into their suggestions, the Government immediately accepted all responsibility, as the one's actually meant to be running the show.

 

[Cdd89]

Never contemplate going into politics if you think the politically sound strategy is to do nothing whilst large numbers of vulnerable people are dying and the media are going hysterical. You might want that strategy but to suggest it is one any government could even consider is fantasy.

If there were an election in 3 weeks, I’d agree. But the conservatives don’t have to fight an election for another 4 years. By which time the election will fought on the aftermath of Covid, not Covid itself. If you accept the premise that restrictions now will cause misery later, through national debt, unemployment, closed businesses and maleducation, it’s crazy to prioritise the short term over the long.

 

[Class 33]

Keir Starmer calling for a full national lockdown within the next 24 hours!!! Dear oh dear oh dear. We don't need yet another full national lockdown Mr Starmer! The damage that would do would do even more catastrophic damage to the economy and the nation's mental health to what has already been done. Absolutely NO to another full national lockdown!

 

[Bertie the bus]

If there were an election in 3 weeks, I’d agree. But the conservatives don’t have to fight an election for another 4 years. By which time the election will fought on the aftermath of Covid, not Covid itself. If you accept the premise that restrictions now will cause misery later, through national debt, unemployment, closed businesses and maleducation, it’s crazy to prioritise the short term over the long.

You claim it is the politically sensible thing to do but no opposition parties are calling for it and as far as I’m aware no individual politicians are either. The Tory rebels are saying they haven’t been shown the evidence for some of the restrictions and that some go too far but I don’t know of any who have called for an end of all restrictions.

I’m afraid you are falling into the standard social media trap. You believe something, you see many of the people making the most noise also believe it and therefore it is what the majority of the public believe.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Keir Starmer calling for a full national lockdown within the next 24 hours!!! Dear oh dear oh dear. We don't need yet another full national lockdown Mr Starmer! The damage that would do would do even more catastrophic damage to the economy and the nation's mental health to what has already been done. Absolutely NO to another full national lockdown!

To be honest, we are nearly in a full national lockdown anyway, with pretty much the whole country in Tier 4 and the rest being in Tier 3.

As Boris said on Andrew Marr this morning that tighter restrictions will be coming, it just remains to be seen what those restrictions are, because I can't see much else they can do that will likely have any effect at all apart from closing schools and universities.

 

[ChrisC]

Keir Starmer calling for a full national lockdown within the next 24 hours!!! Dear oh dear oh dear. We don't need yet another full national lockdown Mr Starmer! The damage that would do would do even more catastrophic damage to the economy and the nation's mental health to what has already been done. Absolutely NO to another full national lockdown!

I’m certainly not wanting another full national lockdown as I think we have had enough damage to the economy, people’s livelihoods, children’s education, mental health etc etc., but things have got so complicated that I’m not sure that I even now understand what is a full national lockdown.

At the beginning of the first lockdown late March and through April into May everywhere was certainly very quiet. Everywhere then began to get busier as the restrictions were relaxed. Since October, many parts of the country have been in Tier 3, a 4 week national lockdown and now Tier 4 but I haven’t really noticed much difference from the summer. I know the pubs, restaurants and hotels are closed and now many shops but the roads are now so busy and there seems to be crowds of people walking the streets. I think people are so fed up with it all that they are ignoring many restrictions and carrying on with life as near to normal as possible. Therefore if Kier Starmer is calling for a full national lockdown what difference will this actually make in those areas which are already in Tier 4.

If we really did have a very strict national lockdown which was guaranteed only to last a few weeks until the vaccine was really beginning to have effect I think more people would agree to comply. Unfortunately the roll out of the vaccine is currently falling way short of what is required and so these damaging restrictions, already ignored by many, don’t have an end date.

 

[Cdd89]

I don’t know of any who have called for an end of all restrictions

I don’t know of anyone, anywhere, who have called for an “end to all restrictions”.

But I do know of plenty of countries (and US states) that have pursued a lower-restrictions approach despite pressure on healthcare. Many of which are enjoying support for their approach. The idea that there is a limit to what we can reasonably do to “protect the NHS” shouldn’t really be that controversial.

 

[yorksrob]

One only has to glance through the "Have Your Say" comments section on the BBC news website to see that the new virus strain has given the unhinged a new lease of life.

I wish I could hibernate until the summer.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Keir Starmer calling for a full national lockdown within the next 24 hours!!! Dear oh dear oh dear. We don't need yet another full national lockdown Mr Starmer! The damage that would do would do even more catastrophic damage to the economy and the nation's mental health to what has already been done. Absolutely NO to another full national lockdown!

To be fair - tier 4 (which 78% of British people are currently subject to) isn't much different than a lockdown anyway!!!!

CJ

 

[Bikeman78]

Hmm to follow up on this post, my optimism might be misplaced if this article from a few days back I saw posted elsewhere is anywhere near true. I have no idea about the reputation of this news outlet, but it makes for depressing reading.

Usually what Wales or Scotland does. Boris follows eventually.

But as I said, I can't say I know how reliable this outlet is or if they are just clickbaiting using the old "inside source".

global247news.com

I've not seen this mentioned anywhere else so hopefully it's nonsense. As regards enforcement, I've been back and fore to work every day since Christmas and I've only seen one Police vehicle.

 

[bramling]

You claim it is the politically sensible thing to do but no opposition parties are calling for it and as far as I’m aware no individual politicians are either. The Tory rebels are saying they haven’t been shown the evidence for some of the restrictions and that some go too far but I don’t know of any who have called for an end of all restrictions.

I’m afraid you are falling into the standard social media trap. You believe something, you see many of the people making the most noise also believe it and therefore it is what the majority of the public believe.

I don’t doubt any of what you write is absolutely right, however the politicians aren’t half going to pay a political price for this down the line, especially when the full effects become clear.

At the moment we’re all in a bus being driven by a madman towards the edge of a cliff, and no one can get to the stop button because the bus is full of people who can’t see what’s about to happen.