When will restrictions finally end?

[northernchris]

The BBC was up to its usual scare tactics yesterday, shouting about the record 60,000 positive daily tests. Well, yes, but as mass testing was not available in wave 1, it’s an utterly irresponsible and irrelevant use of statistics.

Exactly, and no doubt the figure will continue to rise for the next few days so we could be having headlines along the line of 'new daily high infections recorded' well in to next week, which just adds to the fear, and fails to recognise that the restrictions we have now affect the poorest and youngest in society the most

 

[RichJF]

Exactly, and no doubt the figure will continue to rise for the next few days so we could be having headlines along the line of 'new daily high infections recorded' well in to next week, which just adds to the fear, and fails to recognise that the restrictions we have now affect the poorest and youngest in society the most

I've stopped reading the BBC & trusting their reporting during this pandemic. All of their stories seem to be one viewpoint (massively pro lockdown) and becoming increasingly sensationalist. There's nothing published that presents ideas for other preventative measures.

 

[Darandio]

If these draconian restrictions carry on past Easter I will strongly consider joining any protests, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

There have been countless protests already. People here are wishing for talking about much more stronger action than a protest.

 

[Gadget88]

So a negative result to enter UK. How long do people see this lasting? Will it disrupt summer holidays? What’s the solution easier testing and what happens if you are abroad and test positive? Seems taking a holiday in 2021 will be difficult?

 

[MattA7]

So a negative result to enter UK. How long do people see this lasting? Will it disrupt summer holidays? What’s the solution easier testing and what happens if you are abroad and test positive? Seems taking a holiday in 2021 will be difficult?

Surely it would only apply to foreign visitors to the UK and not brits returning from a holiday abroad.As far as I know a UK citizen cannot be denied entry into the UK so it possibly more scaremongering to discourage people going on holiday abroad.

 

[scrapy]

Surely it would only apply to foreign visitors to the UK and not brits returning from a holiday abroad.As far as I know a UK citizen cannot be denied entry into the UK so it possibly more scaremongering to discourage people going on holiday abroad.

They can be refused carriage by the airline (or other transport operator) though.

 

[hwl]

Surely it would only apply to foreign visitors to the UK and not brits returning from a holiday abroad.As far as I know a UK citizen cannot be denied entry into the UK so it possibly more scaremongering to discourage people going on holiday abroad.

Includes UK citizens.

 

[philjo]

Surely it would only apply to foreign visitors to the UK and not brits returning from a holiday abroad.As far as I know a UK citizen cannot be denied entry into the UK so it possibly more scaremongering to discourage people going on holiday abroad.

Grant Shapps stated on the Today programme this morning that the requirement applied to all adult passengers including UK residents. The negative test also did not remove the requirement for all passengers to isolate for 10 days after arrival in the UK

 

[island]

UK citizens cannot be denied entry to the UK, but if not in a possession of a negative test could be denied travel by their airline, or fined or prosecuted upon arrival.

 

[Yew]

Grant Shapps stated on the Today programme this morning that the requirement applied to all adult passengers including UK residents. The negative test also did not remove the requirement for all passengers to isolate for 10 days after arrival in the UK

What's the point then?

Entry restrictions when the virus is in widespread circulation in the country are of questionable usefulness anyway, and a more to do with politics and nationalistic drum-beating than effectiveness.

 

[Watershed]

UK citizens cannot be denied entry to the UK, but if not in a possession of a negative test could be denied travel by their airline

I suspect that, just like with PLFs, there will be a legal requirement on transport operators to ensure that passengers hold negative test results before being allowed to board or check in.

Since virtually no-one has their own means of getting to an island like ours, the inability to deny entry to UK citizens is laughably easy for the Government to circumvent, simply by imposing Regulations like these.

One must wonder whether a similar requirement will in due course be imposed for vaccination...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2021 ==

What's the point then?

Entry restrictions when the virus is in widespread circulation in the country are of questionable usefulness anyway, and a more to do with politics and nationalistic drum-beating than effectiveness.

Firstly to prevent transmission onboard flights etc. - although we now know that the advanced air filtration in A/C systems found on aircraft are quite effective at preventing transmission.

More importantly it is intended to prevent anyone from importing new variants of the virus. Banning flights from South Africa won't prevent people from travelling here via another country.

 

[Yew]

Firstly to prevent transmission onboard flights etc. - although we now know that the advanced air filtration in A/C systems found on aircraft are quite effective at preventing transmission.

More importantly it is intended to prevent anyone from importing new variants of the virus. Banning flights from South Africa won't prevent people from travelling here via another country.

Things don't have to be 100% watertight to work, there's a reason boats have bilge pumps. Extra precautions for SA would pick up 99% of cases, and the idea that this is some sort of 'super strain' is based on rather scant evidence.

 

[Gadget88]

I suspect that, just like with PLFs, there will be a legal requirement on transport operators to ensure that passengers hold negative test results before being allowed to board or check in.

Since virtually no-one has their own means of getting to an island like ours, the inability to deny entry to UK citizens is laughably easy for the Government to circumvent, simply by imposing Regulations like these.

One must wonder whether a similar requirement will in due course be imposed for vaccination...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2021 ==


Firstly to prevent transmission onboard flights etc. - although we now know that the advanced air filtration in A/C systems found on aircraft are quite effective at preventing transmission.

More importantly it is intended to prevent anyone from importing new variants of the virus. Banning flights from South Africa won't prevent people from travelling here via another country.

I would hope not as this would create the dreaded vaccine passport and two tier society. Some people with allergies can’t take the vaccine and given most people have taken a foreign holiday it would make all but mandatary. Again the immunity may last only a year and most agree we can’t vaccinate everybody so what would they do if you had the vaccine in 2021 immunity worn off by say 2023 are they going to refuse you entry to the UK even if your government won’t vaccine the entire population? We know it’s highly unlikely they could do it for 65 million people every year.

 

[TheBeard]

I think the main architect for Lockdown is a friend of Ferguson, and a noted member of SAGE&WHO. That they wanted to do it with Swine flu tells it all.
That they have successfully used a good crisis to radically alter our society cannot be denied.
Examples- effectively abolished coins and notes
- dramatically cut and permanently reduced air travel, cutting C02 - you think it will be easy to fly again, they'll mutate this like a generator appeal.
-dramatically cut need for office space and reduced commuter need long term you will work from home 3 days a week. Again to fight the climate emergency
- reduced road accidents as less travel and other viral infections by winter distancing
-enforced destruction of small businesses and the high street shops in favor of multinationals such as Walmart and Amazon
- almost enforced testing of some areas and push to make this normal
- forcibly reduced health care for other conditions
-imposed a Police State controlling our every movement
-enforced reduction in socialising and ability to discuss fighting this also reducing alcohol
-use of TV and media to control/scare population in compliance- citizens ,according to polls broadly in favor Lockdown- unsure this is the truth now.
George Orwell- it was fiction?
Time to form a Freedom Party when this is over

 

[DustyBin]

I think the main architect for Lockdown is a friend of Ferguson, and a noted member of SAGE&WHO. That they wanted to do it with Swine flu tells it all.
That they have successfully used a good crisis to radically alter our society cannot be denied.
Examples- effectively abolished coins and notes
- dramatically cut and permanently reduced air travel, cutting C02 - you think it will be easy to fly again, they'll mutate this like a generator appeal.
-dramatically cut need for office space and reduced commuter need long term you will work from home 3 days a week. Again to fight the climate emergency
- reduced road accidents as less travel and other viral infections by winter distancing
-enforced destruction of small businesses and the high street shops in favor of multinationals such as Walmart and Amazon
- almost enforced testing of some areas and push to make this normal
- forcibly reduced health care for other conditions
-imposed a Police State controlling our every movement
-enforced reduction in socialising and ability to discuss fighting this also reducing alcohol
-use of TV and media to control/scare population in compliance- citizens ,according to polls broadly in favor Lockdown- unsure this is the truth now.
George Orwell- it was fiction?
Time to form a Freedom Party when this is over

You'll be accused of tinfoil hattery posting things like that! There's little doubt in my mind however that at least some of it's true. I'm not bought into any conspiracy theories to the extent that I think the government is following a 'playbook' as it were, but there are too many coincidences, too many (allegedly) unintended consequences and too much sheer incompetence required for this all to be happening by chance. In particular I think we're facing permanent changes to the way we live in response to climate change. In normal times the kind of policies they need to implement in this regard are absolute vote losers which is why so little has been done to tackle this exponential threat to humanity (as it's often described). The pandemic has presented an opportunity to introduce measures by stealth, or under the pretense of saving us from the virus and it's now just a matter of making sure these changes to the way we live stay in place long term. I've no evidence to support any of this, these are just my thoughts, but I find it harder to believe that this isn't happening than that it is.

 

[RuralRambler]

You'll be accused of tinfoil hattery posting things like that! There's little doubt in my mind however that at least some of it's true. I'm not bought into any conspiracy theories to the extent that I think the government is following a 'playbook' as it were, but there are too many coincidences, too many (allegedly) unintended consequences and too much sheer incompetence required for this all to be happening by chance. In particular I think we're facing permanent changes to the way we live in response to climate change. In normal times the kind of policies they need to implement in this regard are absolute vote losers which is why so little has been done to tackle this exponential threat to humanity (as it's often described). The pandemic has presented an opportunity to introduce measures by stealth, or under the pretense of saving us from the virus and it's now just a matter of making sure these changes to the way we live stay in place long term. I've no evidence to support any of this, these are just my thoughts, but I find it harder to believe that this isn't happening than that it is.

It's a bit of a stretch that so many different countries, with different political parties in charge, are all doing pretty much the same as the UK. Are you seriously suggesting that the conspiracy is so huge that it spans different countries and even different continents?

 

[kristiang85]

You'll be accused of tinfoil hattery posting things like that! There's little doubt in my mind however that at least some of it's true. I'm not bought into any conspiracy theories to the extent that I think the government is following a 'playbook' as it were, but there are too many coincidences, too many (allegedly) unintended consequences and too much sheer incompetence required for this all to be happening by chance. In particular I think we're facing permanent changes to the way we live in response to climate change. In normal times the kind of policies they need to implement in this regard are absolute vote losers which is why so little has been done to tackle this exponential threat to humanity (as it's often described). The pandemic has presented an opportunity to introduce measures by stealth, or under the pretense of saving us from the virus and it's now just a matter of making sure these changes to the way we live stay in place long term. I've no evidence to support any of this, these are just my thoughts, but I find it harder to believe that this isn't happening than that it is.

I still firmly believe that we in the West were spooked by China into going into lockdowns (helped by a lot of proven social media manipulation eminating from China), and once one country did it all the others had to follow. Then collectively there was a realisation that we had gone too far, but being democracies the governments could not admit they've screwed up the economies for no reason otherwise they would be unelectable for generations (and prboably in front of many damaging inquiries). So the end game is the vaccine, which was rushed out in record time, and the governments hope that we will be thankful to them for saving us.

Yes there are some parallels with the Great Reset plans, but there's no way this would be endorsed by every country in the West. Governments can barely agree within themselves on global matters, let alone with other governments. Finding links is a form of confirmation bias I think.

(I hope I'm right on this, as the alternative is unthinkable).

However, there will be changes to our day to day lives - some of which have been in the offing for years. However, I don't think there are any ulterior motives. Although I do worry about the overreach of social media organisations into governance of nations - but that is a debate for elsewhere, and something we need to be really wary of.

 

[DustyBin]

It's a bit of a stretch that so many different countries, with different political parties in charge, are all doing pretty much the same as the UK. Are you seriously suggesting that the conspiracy is so huge that it spans different countries and even different continents?

Be careful using words like 'conspiracy', I specifically said I don't think there is a 'playbook' here. But why is it such a stretch? Climate change affects everybody, not only the UK. Indeed it will affect some countries more so in the short to medium term. Is it really so 'out there' to think that global organisations such as the UN are asking national govenrments to take advantage of this opportunity? I don't have visions of some shiny headed man sat with a white cat on his knee trying to take over the world here, just a bunch of scientists, politicians and their advisors roughly agreeing a global strategy to do something they see as neccessary.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2021 ==

I still firmly believe that we in the West were spooked by China into going into lockdowns (helped by a lot of proven social media manipulation eminating from China), and once one country did it all the others had to follow. Then collectively there was a realisation that we had gone too far, but being democracies the governments could not admit they've screwed up the economies for no reason otherwise they would be unelectable for generations (and prboably in front of many damaging inquiries). So the end game is the vaccine, which was rushed out in record time, and the governments hope that we will be thankful to them for saving us.

Yes there are some parallels with the Great Reset plans, but there's no way this would be endorsed by every country in the West. Governments can barely agree within themselves on global matters, let alone with other governments. Finding links is a form of confirmation bias I think.

(I hope I'm right on this, as the alternative is unthinkable).

However, there will be changes to our day to day lives - some of which have been in the offing for years. However, I don't think there are any ulterior motives. Although I do worry about the overreach of social media organisations into governance of nations - but that is a debate for elsewhere, and something we need to be really wary of.

I agree with most of what you say there, particularly in regard to China and the West's initial response to the pandemic. Whether China acted nefariously is another matter, I'm really not sure.

My opinion on the Great Reset is that it was (and remains) the dream of an organisation that doesn't quite have the influence to pull it off. As I said, it isn't the 'playbook'. There will almost certainly be people within governments and other organisations however who have similar views, and they may be able to influence policy.

If we're all traversing the continent on 737's and driving to work five days a week this time next year I'll eat my words....

 

[MikeWM]

It's a bit of a stretch that so many different countries, with different political parties in charge, are all doing pretty much the same as the UK.

It is indeed, and that is *exactly* the point that 'conspiracy theorists' are making that is hard to ignore/refute.

Why has pretty much every Western country simultaneously decided to throw away their well-established pandemic plans and instead experiment with never-before tried measures such as lockdowns, curfews, masks, etc. that have no proven efficiacy? The lockstep progression of the last year between governments of the 'left', 'centre' and 'right' is downright eerie and remarkably unprecedented.

Perhaps it can be explained with social media or the poor quality of modern politicians or globalisation or something like that, but it is a very odd phenomenon.

 

[kristiang85]

Whether China acted nefariously is another matter, I'm really not sure.

I don't think they started out nefariously, I think it was a genuine virus outbreak (whether naturally or an accident), but I think they realised after the event that they could make Europe follow their lead and thus not be affected too much themselves economically. Whether that was at government level or other actors working independently, I don't know, but there was a lot of targeted social media towards Italy at first with the fake videos of people passing out in the street, etc.

But this is a bit off topic, however there's some good reading around on following the origin of the original social media posts that had a large influence on Europe's pandemic response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2021 ==

It is indeed, and that is *exactly* the point that 'conspiracy theorists' are making that is hard to ignore/refute.

Why has pretty much every Western country simultaneously decided to throw away their well-established pandemic plans and instead experiment with never-before tried measures such as lockdowns, curfews, masks, etc. that have no proven efficiacy? The lockstep progression of the last year between governments of the 'left', 'centre' and 'right' is downright eerie and remarkably unprecedented.

Perhaps it can be explained with social media or the poor quality of modern politicians or globalisation or something like that, but it is a very odd phenomenon.

As I alluded to in my previous post, it seems it was a sheep mentality by governments to keep to safety in numbers to save their skins - Sweden was the only outlier. Britian was actually trying to be different at first by not putting in the restrictions the rest of Europe did, but they sadly gave into social media pressure. So yes I would say it is a combination of spineless politicans and overreach of social media influence.

 

[Yew]

It appears that Grant Schpps was on talkRadio, suggesting a rapid reduction in restrictions once the over-70's had been vaccinated.

"on the barricades to get our freedoms back" once the vaccine is given to over 70s:

This was on twitter, and I don't know how to share things from that.

 

[kristiang85]

It appears that Grant Schpps was on talkRadio, suggesting a rapid reduction in restrictions once the over-70's had been vaccinated.



This was on twitter, and I don't know how to share things from that.

The link to the video of the interview is here: https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1347479440729763841

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps tells Julia he will join her "on the barricades to get our freedoms back" once the vaccine is given to over 70s: "I hate being in a Conservative government that has spent the last year finding freedoms and removing them."

Good news that senior Conservatives are saying this kind of thing. But I'm still wary Hancock will find his new variants as an excuse...

 

[DustyBin]

I don't think they started out nefariously, I think it was a genuine virus outbreak (whether naturally or an accident), but I think they realised after the event that they could make Europe follow their lead and thus not be affected too much themselves economically. Whether that was at government level or other actors working independently, I don't know, but there was a lot of targeted social media towards Italy at first with the fake videos of people passing out in the street, etc.

But this is a bit off topic, however there's some good reading around on following the origin of the original social media posts that had a large influence on Europe's pandemic response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2021 ==



As I alluded to in my previous post, it seems it was a sheep mentality by governments to keep to safety in numbers to save their skins - Sweden was the only outlier. Britian was actually trying to be different at first by not putting in the restrictions the rest of Europe did, but they sadly gave into social media pressure. So yes I would say it is a combination of spineless politicans and overreach of social media influence.

I think you could you be right about China, I suspect they saw an opportunity and took it. It's difficult to ignore the positive outcomes for them following the West's response. Of course, it could all be coincidence but I have my doubts....

I also agree with you about the sheep mentality, I used the same term in a post myself recently. This explains the initial reaction for me. It's perhaps not suprising that Sweden is the outlier, they have a history of not following the crowd and doing their own thing. Interesting....

 

[Bald Rick]

You'll be accused of tinfoil hattery posting things like that! There's little doubt in my mind however that at least some of it's true. I'm not bought into any conspiracy theories to the extent that I think the government is following a 'playbook' as it were, but there are too many coincidences, too many (allegedly) unintended consequences and too much sheer incompetence required for this all to be happening by chance. In particular I think we're facing permanent changes to the way we live in response to climate change. In normal times the kind of policies they need to implement in this regard are absolute vote losers which is why so little has been done to tackle this exponential threat to humanity (as it's often described). The pandemic has presented an opportunity to introduce measures by stealth, or under the pretense of saving us from the virus and it's now just a matter of making sure these changes to the way we live stay in place long term. I've no evidence to support any of this, these are just my thoughts, but I find it harder to believe that this isn't happening than that it is.

Made me laugh.

Why would there be worldwide conspiracy to do all this for the benefit of the climate emergency? It would have been far cheaper to spend the money on *actually* decarbonising, which would also have had the side effect of boosting the economy significantly.

 

[DustyBin]

Made me laugh.

Why would there be worldwide conspiracy to do all this for the benefit of the climate emergency? It would have been far cheaper to spend the money on *actually* decarbonising, which would also have had the side effect of boosting the economy significantly.

I really don't understand why you use the word 'conspiracy'? Where did I claim that all of this was being done for the benefit of the environment? Did I claim the virus wasn't real?

It may well have been cheaper to spend the money on actually decarbonising but the cost would still have been astronomical. Add to that the fact that the policies wouldn't be popular and it's political suicide for whoever starts the ball rolling (in normal times). It may have escaped your notice but countries, including the UK, are bringing forward bans on the sale of new internal combustion engined vehicles whilst all of this is going on for example, which to me suggests there is a new sense of urgency. Lets see how many green policies are introduced on the back of the pandemic, and how things like cheap air travel are affected going forward. I don't think we'll be seeing a government funded 'fly out to help out' scheme, put it that way.

I'm not here to pursuade other people that I'm right as I don't know for sure that I am. I simply have my eyes open to what's happening around me, but you laugh away....

 

[Freightmaster]

As I alluded to in my previous post, it seems it was a sheep mentality by governments to keep to safety in numbers to save their skins - Sweden was the only outlier. Britain was actually trying to be different at first by not putting in the restrictions the rest of Europe did, but they sadly gave into social media pressure. So yes I would say it is a combination of spineless politicians and overreach of social media influence.

I also agree with you about the sheep mentality, I used the same term in a post myself recently. This explains the initial reaction for me. It's perhaps not surprising that Sweden is the outlier, they have a history of not following the crowd and doing their own thing. Interesting....

Agree with the above - in fact the whole situation reminds me of "the emperor's new clothes" story
where nobody dared to challenge the narrative that emperor had an amazing new outfit until a little
boy (Talk Radio, perhaps?) innocently asked why the emperor was walking around naked!!

I keep hoping that more leaders will do the same and realise how incongruous the whole situation is,
but sadly that doesn't seem to be happening yet.





MARK

 

[yorksrob]

It appears that Grant Schpps was on talkRadio, suggesting a rapid reduction in restrictions once the over-70's had been vaccinated.



This was on twitter, and I don't know how to share things from that.

That's certainly a relief.

The emphasis should then be on giving the over 50's options to be off of the public front line and personal risk management for the rest of us.

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Tyne & Wear Metro have been told to 'assume' social distancing will end in April:

Government told Metro to assume social distancing ends in April

The government has been urged to offer long-term cash to prop up the struggling rail network, after it emerged Nexus was told to base its recovery plans on a return to normality by April

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

Metro chiefs submitted a recovery plan to the Department for Transport (DfT) this week, detailing how the network can bounce back from a cash crisis caused by Covid-19 – which could lead to increased ticket fares and cuts to services.



But it has emerged that the DfT had told Metro operator Nexus to base its plans on an assumption that social distancing will no longer be needed and more normal travel can resume in April – a prospect that looks highly unlikely, with the nation in another lockdown until at least mid-February and Covid infection and death numbers escalating rapidly.


The service has relied on government grant funding to keep trains running during the pandemic, with the Metro losing almost £1 million a week at the height of the first lockdown as passenger numbers plummeted by up to 95%.


The DfT has only committed to continuing that emergency funding, so far totalling more than £30 million, until April and asked Nexus and other light rail networks to come up proposals to put services back on more sustainable footing.

 

[Watershed]

Tyne & Wear Metro have been told to 'assume' social distancing will end in April:

Government told Metro to assume social distancing ends in April

The government has been urged to offer long-term cash to prop up the struggling rail network, after it emerged Nexus was told to base its recovery plans on a return to normality by April

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

I imagine this request is more so that the DfT can quantify the effect and cost of various measures. It's difficult to imagine the Government accepting the end of social distancing in April.

At best I foresee a return to advising 1m+, or perhaps a special "exemption" for industries like public transport where distancing is fundamentally incompatible with normal operation.

 

[philosopher]

Tyne & Wear Metro have been told to 'assume' social distancing will end in April:

Government told Metro to assume social distancing ends in April

The government has been urged to offer long-term cash to prop up the struggling rail network, after it emerged Nexus was told to base its recovery plans on a return to normality by April

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

I suspect until this new more infectious strain came up, ending social distancing in April was the plan. I remember quite a few government ministers implying that would be the case. I think this new strain however has probably put plans to end social distancing back by a few months.