When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[nw1]

I don't know what to think with regards to this one (other than maybe being another dead cat attempt):

Boris Johnson sang 'I Will Survive' to new communications chief Guto Harri

The PM's new director of communications Guto Harri reveals how he accepted the new job in Downing Street.

www.bbc.co.uk

So "Boris" joins Peter Lilley as an artist on the "Worst ever musical performances" list.

Who remembers Lilley's version of "Land of Hope And Glory", reworded as "Land of Pseudo-Tories", performed at the Tory conference in 1998?

 

[Busaholic]

So "Boris" joins Peter Lilley as an artist on the "Worst ever musical performances" list.

Who remembers Lilley's version of "Land of Hope And Glory", reworded as "Land of Pseudo-Tories", performed at the Tory conference in 1998?

Don't forget John Redwood's rendition of the Welsh National Anthem!

 

[GusB]

"He's not a complete clown"

High praise indeed.

99% clown is not quite complete!

 

[Bertie the bus]

I don't know what to think with regards to this one (other than maybe being another dead cat attempt):

Boris Johnson sang 'I Will Survive' to new communications chief Guto Harri

The PM's new director of communications Guto Harri reveals how he accepted the new job in Downing Street.

www.bbc.co.uk

There is literally nothing to make of it. It isn't the 1650s. People are allowed to sing and have a laugh.

 

[edwin_m]

I've been left very confused by recent events. By all accounts, Johnson should be done for, and have gone already, but the final nail seems to be missing, and everything that might be that nail turns out to be fake.

Add to that, I've noticed people bang on about resignation, not them removing him, and I'm left with only one possible conclusion, which may be wrong: They don't want to truly nail him, because people will then realize they can do it to other politicians, and that terrifies them. If Johnson resigns or say, loses a general election (the super long game), everything will remain business as usual in Westminster.

I think the risk is that he'll pull off what May did - get the number of letters to call a vote of no confidence, and then win it. He's then safe for a year.

It also demonstrates that nearly all Tory MPs are more concerned about their own survival than about what's morally right.

There is literally nothing to make of it. It isn't the 1650s. People are allowed to sing and have a laugh.

Except during lockdowns, if you aren't one of the ruling elite.

 

[yorksrob]

Did the U.K. Parliamentary Report published on 11/10/21 pass your notice? It concluded what so many have known for so long, that the first lockdown came too late and caused thousands of unnecessary deaths, deaths that caused this country to go near or at the top of world statistics where we have lingered ever since. So Labour were right, according to that report by our democratic representatives.

I'm personally not convinced that that made so much of a difference, given that

The Tory party is ultimately still a male patriarchy at heart*, they have a track record of humiliating/scapegoating women whenever the party is in trouble. Yes they've had 2 female PMs, 2 more than Labour, but both of them were absolutely hounded publicly in the build-up to their eventual demises, whereas male leaders tend to be given a chance to go gracefully, and only if they resist do they get public humiliation, as IDS sort of found out. In this case the go to woman for scapegoating appears to be Johnson's current wife, who has at least had some involvement in politics in the Tory party pre-Johnson's premiership, and some of No.10s advisors have been linked to her. I recall even Sarah Vine (Gove's ex) being concerned about the whole issue in past Daily Mail articles.

*Other political parties ultimately have their own prejudices too, but are not related to this particular issue.

Douglas-Holme, Heath, Major and Cameron all went fairly swiftly after electoral defeats.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Except during lockdowns, if you aren't one of the ruling elite.

I don't recall any laws in any of the lockdowns prohibiting singing or laughing. On the subject of lockdowns, I think enough people suffered enough misery over the last 2 years, so we really don't need modern day puritans wanting to make it permanent. He was having a laugh - lead him to the stocks!

 

[nw1]

Don't forget John Redwood's rendition of the Welsh National Anthem!

Maybe they should make an album entitled "Now That's What I Call RIght Wing", featuring all three of them. Plus, while we're at it, Dominic (why are there so many right-wing Dominics around?) Frisby's profanity-laden piece of drivel from 2020 (which frighteningly almost made the top 40) and Neil and Christine Hamilton's world cup song (which thankfully I haven't heard).

 

[MattRat]

There is literally nothing to make of it. It isn't the 1650s. People are allowed to sing and have a laugh.

Except they are laughing at us.....

 

[The Ham]

I don't recall any laws in any of the lockdowns prohibiting singing or laughing. On the subject of lockdowns, I think enough people suffered enough misery over the last 2 years, so we really don't need modern day puritans wanting to make it permanent. He was having a laugh - lead him to the stocks!

Only there were restrictions on singing, at one point churches could only have one person signing and then they had to be socially distanced if not behind a screen.

There were even petitions to allow more singing:

Archived Petition: Allow non-professional singing in groups of more than six indoors

I would like the government to retract the guidance issued on 18 May that says amateur choirs can only rehearse indoors in groups of six. Step 3 of the roadmap should allow choirs of any size to rehearse indoors providing social distancing is maintained and COVID-secure measures are in place.

petition.parliament.uk

(To be fair nothing on small scale gatherings, such as within the rule of six).

 

[brad465]

And now thanks to Johnson's desperate attack on Starmer, a mob of protestors ganged up on the latter and hurled slurs at him, including about Jimmy Saville. So we now have a PM who has incited violence, just like his clone across the pond did on January 6th, albeit on a larger scale. I can't tell though who benefits/loses out of Johnson and Starmer in this: the latter will now have more publicity, which he's struggled to get as Labour leader so far, but perception of this incident might not entirely work in his favour. For Johnson it might hinder him but I doubt it'll bring him down.

Keir Starmer: Two arrested after protesters surround Labour leader

Boris Johnson faces new calls to withdraw a false claim linking the Labour leader and Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk

Two people have been arrested after clashes between protesters and police protecting Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer.
Sir Keir was taken away by car near Parliament shortly after 17:00 GMT on Monday, having been surrounded by a group of demonstrators.
A man and a woman were arrested after a traffic cone was thrown at officers, the Metropolitan Police said.
Several politicians have raised concerns over safety.

'Ridiculous slur'​

Videos have emerged on social media of Sir Keir being escorted into the police car.
Protesters can be heard repeatedly shouting "traitor", while criticising the Labour leader for backing Covid vaccinations and not "opposing the government".
One person shouted: "Do you enjoy working for the new world order?"
On one of the videos, someone can be heard shouting: "Jimmy Savile."
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been heavily criticised for making a false claim that Sir Keir failed to prosecute serial sex offender Savile when he was director of public prosecutions.
The Labour leader has previously described the comment "a ridiculous slur, peddled by right-wing trolls".
After the incident at Westminster, Labour London Mayor Sadiq Khan tweeted: "This is what happens when fake news is amplified and given credibility by people who should know better."
And Conservative MP Julian Smith tweeted: "What happened to Keir Starmer tonight outside Parliament is appalling. It is really important for our democracy & for his security that the false Savile slurs made against him are withdrawn in full."
The incident happened as Sir Keir walked from the Ministry of Defence along the Victoria Embankment towards Portcullis House, part of the Palace of Westminster, with shadow foreign secretary David Lammy.
The Met issued a statement saying: "Shortly after 5.10pm on Monday, 7 February, a man who had been surrounded by a group of protesters near to New Scotland Yard, was taken away from the scene by a police car.
"A man and a woman were arrested at the scene for assault of an emergency worker after a traffic cone was thrown at a police officer. They have been taken into custody."

 

[Typhoon]

I don't know what to think with regards to this one (other than maybe being another dead cat attempt):

Boris Johnson sang 'I Will Survive' to new communications chief Guto Harri

The PM's new director of communications Guto Harri reveals how he accepted the new job in Downing Street.

www.bbc.co.uk

Practising for The Masked Singer?

 

[DanNCL]

And now thanks to Johnson's desperate attack on Starmer, a mob of protestors ganged up on the latter and hurled slurs at him, including about Jimmy Saville. So we now have a PM who has incited violence, just like his clone across the pond did on January 6th, albeit on a larger scale. I can't tell though who benefits/loses out of Johnson and Starmer in this: the latter will now have more publicity, which he's struggled to get as Labour leader so far, but perception of this incident might not entirely work in his favour. For Johnson it might hinder him but I doubt it'll bring him down.

Not just against Starmer, against David Lammy too.

It's a disgrace that this has happened at all, and even more of a disgrace that it's been effectively encouraged by the man who is supposed to be responsible enough to run the country. If this doesn't result in Graham Brady getting the 54 letters needed for a leadership contest then I'm not sure anything will.

 

[dgl]

I hope Starmer really gives Boris what for at the next PMQ's, it is not acceptable for anyone to be attacked because of lies from someone else,

Saying that if you want a laugh here is a couple of un-edited episodes of HIGNFY when Boris was hosting, he's ot the sharpest tool in the shed, more a rubber mallett!

 

[Busaholic]

Saying that if you want a laugh here is a couple of un-edited episodes of HIGNFY when Boris was hosting, he's ot the sharpest tool in the shed, more a rubber mallett!

I watched these a few months ago, and it's clear that Paul Merton in particular had him sussed at a very early stage, and challenged him on his appearance for instance, for which he had no answer. No wonder Merton later expressed amazement that the 'buffoon' (an expression he used of him quite a few times) could be putting himself forward for serious political office. If Johnson was considered one of Eton's finest brains, it just goes to show where inbreeding among the upper classes leads you, combined with an innate sense of entitlement.

 

[birchesgreen]

I know its 19 years ago but blimey, its not been kind on him.

 

[brad465]

Tory MPs are doing their next round of virtue signalling on Twitter, in other words copying and pasting the same tweet claiming to be outraged by what happened to Starmer and Lammy earlier.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I watched these a few months ago, and it's clear that Paul Merton in particular had him sussed at a very early stage, and challenged him on his appearance for instance, for which he had no answer. No wonder Merton later expressed amazement that the 'buffoon' (an expression he used of him quite a few times) could be putting himself forward for serious political office. If Johnson was considered one of Eton's finest brains, it just goes to show where inbreeding among the upper classes leads you, combined with an innate sense of entitlement.

It’s all an act - he’s nowhere near as daft as he makes out. This story from Jeremy Vine makes for interesting reading - https://reaction.life/jeremy-vine-my-boris-story/.

I realised that those two Boris speeches had made me pose the fundamental question, the one that concerns you most when you listen to a politician:

Is this guy for real?

 

[brad465]

It’s all an act - he’s nowhere near as daft as he makes out. This story from Jeremy Vine makes for interesting reading - https://reaction.life/jeremy-vine-my-boris-story/.

I think there are are that he's genuinely stupid, such as diplomacy, as evidenced by his role in the Zaghari-Ratcliffe situation. But I agree a lot of things he does, in terms of stunts, PR and certain analogies he makes are all calculated. He is an expert con artist, but an idiot on all things political except the areas he can cheat (like the Ministerial Code and lying to Parliament).

 

[dosxuk]

I've been left very confused by recent events. By all accounts, Johnson should be done for, and have gone already, but the final nail seems to be missing, and everything that might be that nail turns out to be fake.

Add to that, I've noticed people bang on about resignation, not them removing him, and I'm left with only one possible conclusion, which may be wrong: They don't want to truly nail him, because people will then realize they can do it to other politicians, and that terrifies them. If Johnson resigns or say, loses a general election (the super long game), everything will remain business as usual in Westminster.

This is far more about the lack of talent in the Tory party that the other MPs can rally around to replace Boris. Without serious candidates to replace him then a vote of no confidence will surely fail under the any-leader-is-better-than-no-leader principle.

Likewise, Boris will only resign when a clear successor appears who would be able to get a confidence vote passed and force him out. Until then we're in an unhappy stalemate where nobody really wants him there but nobody can do anything about it.

They certainly don't want him winning a confidence vote now by a small margin and then going on to do horrifically at the May elections.

 

[MattRat]

This is far more about the lack of talent in the Tory party that the other MPs can rally around to replace Boris. Without serious candidates to replace him then a vote of no confidence will surely fail under the any-leader-is-better-than-no-leader principle.

Likewise, Boris will only resign when a clear successor appears who would be able to get a confidence vote passed and force him out. Until then we're in an unhappy stalemate where nobody really wants him there but nobody can do anything about it.

They certainly don't want him winning a confidence vote now by a small margin and then going on to do horrifically at the May elections.

I mean that Labour could easily get him out on lying to parliament. He just apparently lied about Starmer, but they haven't brought that up yet in he commons. As for successors, maybe Jeremy Hunt? He's not perfect, but he's not been in the current storm, and dare I say, is the 'reasonable' option, as opposed to the cult of personality that Johnson is.

 

[The Ham]

I mean that Labour could easily get him out on lying to parliament. He just apparently lied about Starmer, but they haven't brought that up yet in he commons. As for successors, maybe Jeremy Hunt? He's not perfect, but he's not been in the current storm, and dare I say, is the 'reasonable' option, as opposed to the cult of personality that Johnson is.

Whilst Hunt may be a reasonable suggestion for some there's likely to be others for whom he's not the right choice. It's been suggested that until enough of the Tory Party can see a sensible option then Boris isn't likely to be moving out very fast.

However that leaves the potential issue* that the longer be stays the more that he's seen as the Tory Party and so further harms the outcome for the Tories going forwards.

* Issue for the Tory Party, clearly there'll be others that will see this as a good thing!

 

[Cdd89]

It's a disgrace that this has happened at all, and even more of a disgrace that it's been effectively encouraged by the man who is supposed to be responsible enough to run the country.

I’ve been utterly confused by the reporting on this incident. It is evidently the case that these people didn’t go there ‘seeking out’ Starmer, and the comments about Savile were incidental rather than the focus of their shouting. If Johnson had walked out they’d have been shouting at him instead.

I’m all for calling out the Tories when they deserve it — plenty of opportunity for that in the last few weeks — but this honestly feels like a stretch.

 

[brad465]

Whilst Hunt may be a reasonable suggestion for some there's likely to be others for whom he's not the right choice. It's been suggested that until enough of the Tory Party can see a sensible option then Boris isn't likely to be moving out very fast.

However that leaves the potential issue* that the longer be stays the more that he's seen as the Tory Party and so further harms the outcome for the Tories going forwards.

* Issue for the Tory Party, clearly there'll be others that will see this as a good thing!

On top of this, we've seen that once Johnson is weak, his way of trying to get out of hole he's dug himself into only leads to him digging even deeper, with a number of desperate measures/attacks deployed. The Savile slur is the latest desperate attempt, and he could well continue to do more stupid things in attempts to try and save himself, thus damaging his party more.

 

[DanNCL]

I’ve been utterly confused by the reporting on this incident. It is evidently the case that these people didn’t go there ‘seeking out’ Starmer, and the comments about Savile were incidental rather than the focus of their shouting. If Johnson had walked out they’d have been shouting at him instead.

I’m all for calling out the Tories when they deserve it — plenty of opportunity for that in the last few weeks — but this honestly feels like a stretch.

They very well could have attacked Starmer regardless but that wasn’t my point, my point was that Boris should not have made remarks that could be used in such a manner. It could have been much worse and Boris absolutely should be held accountable for it, he shouldn’t have said anything that could fuel the situation.

 

[Typhoon]

It’s all an act - he’s nowhere near as daft as he makes out. This story from Jeremy Vine makes for interesting reading - https://reaction.life/jeremy-vine-my-boris-story/.

Personally, I think he's bone idle and, by coming across as fairly stupid or clownish, it means no one asks him to do hard work because they think it will get messed up when in fact it would never get done. He doesn't mind doing the odd bit of graft, newspaper articles on anything he liked, speeches when he can get away with not knowing anything about the subject, touring vaccine centres, building sites, schools - he was at a hospital yesterday doing a bit of elbow bumping. But none of that is strenuous. He gets caught out in the Commons because he doesn't do the prep; unfortunately many of his backbenchers would still cheer him if he recited the Greek alphabet backwards.

Incidentally, when I saw the pictures in #1484, I thought it was his brother (who some claim would have made a better PM).

 

[Cdd89]

They very well could have attacked Starmer regardless but that wasn’t my point, my point was that Boris should not have made remarks that could be used in such a manner

I absolutely agree with you there - awful thing to have said.

My comments were more about the media reporting of the attack. I watched the BBC News at Ten yesterday (a rarity for me!) and came away with the impression that the protests were purely as a result of / incited by the Savile remarks, with that being the small except broadcast.

 

[dgl]

Though as I understand it Ian Hislop does think Boris really is an idiot, and I trust Ian's view.

Also going by reports this moring Boris claims he has better/more important things to do than apologise to Starmer, really? In Boris' world an extra 30mins in bed is probably more important to him.

 

[brad465]

Now No 10 has spoken out and said Johnson has no intention of saying sorry, claiming he's got other stuff to be getting on with:

Keir Starmer: No 10 has no intention of apologising after protesters surround Labour leader

A No 10 source says Boris Johnson's "got other stuff to get on with", despite demands from his own MPs.

www.bbc.co.uk

No 10 has no intention of apologising for the PM's false claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile, after the Labour leader was targeted by protesters near Parliament.
Boris Johnson is facing fresh calls from Tory MPs to say sorry, after protesters were heard shouting about the sex offender, as well as protesting about Covid measures.
But a senior source told the BBC: "He's got other stuff to get on with today."
Mr Johnson did condemn the harassment.
In a tweet, he said the behaviour directed at Sir Keir on Monday afternoon was "absolutely disgraceful" and "completely unacceptable".
But a No 10 source said it was unreasonable to suggest that what happened on Monday "was Boris's fault and not the mob's fault".
At least seven Tory MPs later linked the incident to the PM's incorrect comment and demanded the prime minister said sorry.
However, Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis said the PM had made a "fair and reasonable point" about Sir Keir taking responsibility for the organisation he led, and nobody should use the remarks to "excuse behaviour from thugs".

Videos on social media showed Sir Keir being escorted into a police car on Victoria Embankment shortly after 17:00 GMT, close to Portcullis House - an office building used by MPs.
Protesters could be heard repeatedly shouting "traitor", while criticising the Labour leader for supporting Covid vaccinations and not "opposing the government" or protecting the working man.
Some protesters were seen holding signs opposing mandatory vaccinations and restrictions to curb the spread of Covid.
But there were also shouts about attacks on journalists, Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, and about protecting paedophiles, naming Savile.
Some MPs have linked these remarks to the false claim that Mr Johnson made in the Commons last week, when he said Sir Keir "spent most of his time prosecuting journalists and failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile".
Scotland Yard later said a man and a woman were arrested after a traffic cone was thrown at officers.

'Misconstrued'​

Technology Minister Chris Philip told BBC Breakfast there was "no way you can reasonably make a link" between what the protesters said and the PM's previous remarks.
He said Mr Johnson's comments in the Commons were "capable of being misconstrued", but that he had clarified in the following days that Sir Keir was not personally responsible for the case.
Criticism came from Tory MPs, including Commons defence committee chair Tobias Elwood who tweeted: "Let's stop this drift towards a Trumpian style of politics from becoming the norm."
And Labour MP Kim Leadbeater, who now holds the seat of her sister Jo Cox, who was killed while serving as a politician, said: "These things don't just happen. Words have consequences, leaders have a duty to behave responsibly and politics is not a game."
Julian Smith, a former Northern Ireland secretary under Mr Johnson, said it was important for democracy, as well as Sir Keir's security, that "the false Savile slurs made against him are withdrawn in full".
Senior Tory MP Sir Roger Gale - who has already called for the PM to resign over the Downing Street party row - also said he feared the "grim scenes" outside Parliament were "the direct result of the deliberately careless use of language in the Chamber".

Does he think an apology takes more than a few minutes at most?

 

[Cdd89]

Does he think an apology takes more than a few minutes at most?

It depends what the apology is for.

If it's for the "Savile slur", then we can all agree that's well overdue -- but also weeks old. I've no interest in the continued focus on this. Maybe other people do, that's fine.

But if it's for "his comments inciting a mob to attack Starmer", then no he shouldn't apologise for that. He didn't.