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When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

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The Ham

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The point about the Savile thing though is that Sir Kier was in charge of the CPS at the time. As leader, he had (and has to) take responsibility - and he rightly apologised for it at the time, just as Boris has apologised for parties he didn’t attend (as well as those he did).

The point I'd make is whilst Starmer does have to answer for that (and some would say that he's at least done so in part) why has Johnson brought it up now and not (say) in November 2021 when Reuters produced their fact check article?

Also, why are none of the Tories willing to repeat the statement outside of the Commons? As if it was so clear cut then why are they all being so coy?

I suspect that it's a "look over there" tactic (especially given that the lawyer who's clients were those impacted by SavIle has gone on the record on this and certainly isn't thanking Johnson, see the BBC fact check report and Newscast episode from 1st February), which Johnson often uses to get himself out of difficult situations, unfortunately it could leave him open to difficulties down the line. For example (and for clarification I'm not suggesting that this is the case) if it were to be found that in doing so he was found to have misled parliament.
 
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21C101

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I notice that everyone is talking about Starmer and Saville rather than Boris and Parties. As others say an effective distraction tactic that reminds me of a Lynton Crosby type effort.
 
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brad465

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I notice that everyone is talking about Starmer and Saville rather than Boris and Parties. As others say an effective distraction tactic that reminds me of a Lynton Crosby type effort.
Lynton Crosby of course who Johnson has been trying to get back to advise him in an attempt to appease his backbenchers. In terms of how much it was a dead cat though is debatable, in that since Johnson made that defamatory remark, some backbenchers have openly criticised him for saying that, the backbenches in the Commons at the time clearly were not happy, and at least 3 no confidence letters have been submitted today, all things that do not happen when a dead cat strategy is working.
 

Bayum

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9


Elwood is not alone in that respect. Ms Patel isn't exactly an easy person to like. Yet for some reason, Johnson seems to have been very, very reluctant to sack her.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



Except Starmer didn't try and dismiss the accusations against Savile in the same way that Johnson actually attended the parties.

Johnson knows he's the lowest of the low, and to counter this, is attacking others for the speck in their eyes compared to the whopping great plank in his own.
Except Priti ticks two very big boxes.
 

Busaholic

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It does look like all the Devon Tory MPs have got together and discussed the issue (well I assume Geoffrey Cox wasn't available as he might have been in the BV Islands).
Cox's letter to the 1922 Committee would have got lost in the post from the Virgin Islands! The S.W. (Devon and Cornwall) group of Tory MPs is quite close to each other, with the notable exceptions of Cox and George Useless, and still includes the non-whipped Anne-marie Morris. Neil Parish, MP for Tiverton and a farmer, is Chair of the Food, Agriculture etc Select Committee and recently gave both barrels to Useless Eustice when the latter appeared before that committee! BBC1's Sunday Politics SW programme is very entertaining these days.
 

Cowley

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Is this sarcasm? If not she's Nadine Dorries, who has been defending Johnson like her life depends on him in recent days/weeks (as her life in Cabinet probably does depend on him).

No it wasn’t sarcasm Brad. :lol:
I don’t generally watch the news as I’m more into audio stuff (podcasts, radio etc).
We don’t have a telly so I haven’t got a clue what half of these people even look like!
I’ve heard Dorries talk but I didn’t know what she looked like…

Who’s the bloke on the left with the silly hair then?

(That last bit was a joke by the way ;))
 

brad465

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No it wasn’t sarcasm Brad. :lol:
I don’t generally watch the news as I’m more into audio stuff (podcasts, radio etc).
We don’t have a telly so I haven’t got a clue what half of these people even look like!
I’ve heard Dorries talk but I didn’t know what she looked like…

Who’s the bloke on the left with the silly hair then?

(That last bit was a joke by the way ;))
Ah fair enough, I thought given her recent behaviour many more would know who she is,
What will happen if Carrie sees that photo?
If she'd looked up her husband's past she wouldn't be surprised, Johnson normally has a mistress "post" in place almost all the time.
 

Busaholic

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Lynton Crosby of course who Johnson has been trying to get back to advise him in an attempt to appease his backbenchers. In terms of how much it was a dead cat though is debatable, in that since Johnson made that defamatory remark, some backbenchers have openly criticised him for saying that, the backbenches in the Commons at the time clearly were not happy, and at least 3 no confidence letters have been submitted today, all things that do not happen when a dead cat strategy is working.
Yippee!! Crosby (if it is his work) has got it immensely wrong this time; just when Johnson had got away with the Downing Street fiascos as far as the majority of Tory MPs were concerned, thanks to his stooge placewoman Dick, reappointed for a further two years by him in a V sign to the people of London, particularly women, people of colour, gays, the disabled etc, he has cocked up massively in bringing this matter up. Starmer has nothing to answer for here, anymore than he did at the time. Johnson is flailing round in desperation, not waving but drowning. Any Tory MP with a brain (which limits the field, of course) now has to turn on him.
 

Typhoon

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"Love is in the air"
Is that the title of her next bestseller?

"The whole House was captivated as he gave another of his overpowering speeches. He turned and looked me straight in the eyes. I was transfixed."
 

ainsworth74

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Is that the title of her next bestseller?

"The whole House was captivated as he gave another of his overpowering speeches. He turned and looked me straight in the eyes. I was transfixed."
I will abuse my moderation powers if I have to to stop that line of posting in its tracks! :lol:
 

nw1

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No it wasn’t sarcasm Brad. :lol:
I don’t generally watch the news as I’m more into audio stuff (podcasts, radio etc).
We don’t have a telly so I haven’t got a clue what half of these people even look like!
I’ve heard Dorries talk but I didn’t know what she looked like…

Who’s the bloke on the left with the silly hair then?

(That last bit was a joke by the way ;))

I also will confess to not knowing what Dorries looks like, though (sadly) I have heard of her and her antics. So yes, I was about to ask the same question.

I was expecting her to look like Edwina Currie (which is a curious coincidence, given the subject matter...) maybe because she has the same kind of pompous, holier-than-thou air that Currie did.
 

The Ham

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I will abuse my moderation powers if I have to to stop that line of posting in its tracks! :lol:

I for one would fully support you in doing so, I sometimes read these threads when I'm eating and I wouldn't want to waste good food!!!
 

SuspectUsual

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I was expecting her to look like Edwina Currie (which is a curious coincidence, given the subject matter...) maybe because she has the same kind of pompous, holier-than-thou air that Currie did

that’s Andrea Leadsom I think
 

nw1

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that’s Andrea Leadsom I think

I know they're easily confused, but... aren't they both a bit like that? First time I came across Dorries was when she had a spat with Louise Mensch (who I don't much like either) and she came across very condescending.

Leadsom of course is even worse, after she seemed to imply that having children makes you a better Prime Minister. What year was the post-Cameron leadership contest, 1866?
 

brad465

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Wow:


Boris Johnson's head of policy has resigned over the PM's false claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute serial sex offender Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions.
Mr Johnson made the widely debunked accusation on Monday, sparking anger from MPs - including in his own party.
The PM backed down on Thursday, saying the Labour leader "had nothing to do personally with those decisions".
But Munira Mirza said he should have apologised for the misleading remarks.
In her resignation letter, published by The Spectator, she wrote: "You are a better man than many of your detractors will ever understand, which is why it is so desperately sad that you let yourself down by making a scurrilous accusation against the leader of the opposition."
A No 10 source confirmed Ms Mirza's resignation to the BBC.
Shortly after, No 10 sent out an email, confirming Tory MP Andrew Griffith had been named as minister for policy and head of the prime minister's policy unit in the Cabinet Office.
A Downing Street spokesman said: "We are very sorry Munira has left No 10 and are grateful for her service and contribution to government.
"[We] will work across government and with MPs as we continue to deliver and expand on our ambitious policy agenda."

Mr Johnson faced criticism on Monday where he accused Sir Keir of spending "most of his time" as director of public prosecutions (DPP) "prosecuting journalists and failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile", despite having no evidence to back up the claim.
Disc jockey and TV personality Savile was revealed to be a serial sexual abuser after his death in 2011, having attacked hundreds of women and children at various locations including hospitals, schools and the BBC.
The PM made the remark during a Commons debate on senior civil servant Sue Gray's report into Downing Street parties during lockdown, which saw him under pressure from all sides of the House over his conduct.
At Wednesday's Prime Minister's Questions, the Labour leader hit back, accusing the PM of fuelling conspiracy theories with his remarks.
But Mr Johnson replied that Sir Keir had taken "full responsibility for what had happened on his watch" as the DPP.
By Thursday, Mr Johnson appeared to have backed down, telling reporters he had not been talking about Sir Keir's "personal record" when he was DPP, adding: "I totally understand that he had nothing to do personally with those decisions.
"I was making a point about his responsibility for the organisation as a whole."
If ever proof was needed that Johnson's remarks backfired spectacularly, this is it. Mirza was also the one who oversaw a report investigating institutional racism that many believed to be a whitewash, and for one of his staff to jump ship before being thrown under a bus (because they were at one of the many No.10 parties), this will not help Johnson one iota.
 

Busaholic

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Typhoon

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I for one would fully support you in doing so, I sometimes read these threads when I'm eating and I wouldn't want to waste good food!!!
How do you think I felt? I read the synopses of a few of her books to get a feel for their content - and it was just after breakfast.

This sort of stuff is the staple of Libraries in the Tory shires. What is encouraging is that even though the county has stacks of copies of her books, most are loitering on the shelves.

This is the real beginning of the end, which I believe will now escalate out of Johnson's control. Sunak, asked to comment on Johnson's original charge, has this afternoon simply said ''I wouldn't have said it.'' He need say no more.

It would be somewhat ironic if all the words with which Starmer attacked Johnson haven't made a ha'pence worth of difference, but a few words with which Johnson attacked Starmer brought him down.
 

DynamicSpirit

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It would be somewhat ironic if all the words with which Starmer attacked Johnson haven't made a ha'pence worth of difference, but a few words with which Johnson attacked Starmer brought him down.

That would be ironic. And I think it's true, Starmer's attacks are making no difference. To be honest, I think a big problem Starmer has had is that Labour have basically been regularly finding excuses to call for Boris to apologize or to resign pretty much ever since he became Tory leader (with a bit of an interlude while politics was dominated by Covid). We now have a situation where calling for him to resign does look well justified, but Labour has spoiled it because they've already cried 'wolf' so many times that there's nothing really interesting in the fact that they are doing so again. If anything, I suspect the continual calls to resign from the opposition benches tends to make Tory MPs slightly more supportive of Johnson - the rallying-round-in-the-face-of-attacks effect. If Labour had been a bit more measured in its attacks in the recent past, so that calling for Boris to resign was a bit more unusual, then their attacks might have had a bit more impact.
 

Bayum

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Have to say. I’m LOVING this drip drip drip of **** coming out each day for BJ.
 

Typhoon

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That would be ironic. And I think it's true, Starmer's attacks are making no difference. To be honest, I think a big problem Starmer has had is that Labour have basically been regularly finding excuses to call for Boris to apologize or to resign pretty much ever since he became Tory leader (with a bit of an interlude while politics was dominated by Covid). We now have a situation where calling for him to resign does look well justified, but Labour has spoiled it because they've already cried 'wolf' so many times that there's nothing really interesting in the fact that they are doing so again. If anything, I suspect the continual calls to resign from the opposition benches tends to make Tory MPs slightly more supportive of Johnson - the rallying-round-in-the-face-of-attacks effect. If Labour had been a bit more measured in its attacks in the recent past, so that calling for Boris to resign was a bit more unusual, then their attacks might have had a bit more impact.
I agree there is a lot in what you have written. If Johnson had made the effort, he could have been prepared for most recent PMQs - he virtually knew what he was going to be asked. If they had mixed it up a bit, it might have caught him out when they returned to partygate. (I suppose he might never have resorted to the Savile jibe though if it hadn't been constant, though).

The other tactic which might catch Johnson (but few others) out more often, would be to ask him questions for which he has already rolled out 'inaccuracies' which have been fact checked. When Johnson gives the same inaccurate answer refer him to ONS (or whatever) data which gives contrary figures, or, if he changes the figures, ask which is right. Even better if the contrary data had been given by a cabinet member.
 

brad465

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It would be somewhat ironic if all the words with which Starmer attacked Johnson haven't made a ha'pence worth of difference, but a few words with which Johnson attacked Starmer brought him down.
Which goes to show, if you lie by the sword you die by the sword.
 

theblackwatch

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Wow:



If ever proof was needed that Johnson's remarks backfired spectacularly, this is it. Mirza was also the one who oversaw a report investigating institutional racism that many believed to be a whitewash, and for one of his staff to jump ship before being thrown under a bus (because they were at one of the many No.10 parties), this will not help Johnson one iota.
And now Jack Doyle, Director of Communications, has gone...
 

Gloster

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So what does Munira Mirza do now? Try to emulate Dominic Cummings, or maybe she will restart her old home of the Revolutionary Communist Party. More seriously: is she going to go quietly or will she spill the beans which she must know.
 

nw1

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So what does Munira Mirza do now? Try to emulate Dominic Cummings, or maybe she will restart her old home of the Revolutionary Communist Party. More seriously: is she going to go quietly or will she spill the beans which she must know.

An ex-Revolutionary Communist being (former) adviser to the very personification of inherited wealth and privilege. Strange how these people in politics change so radically...
 
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Typhoon

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So what does Munira Mirza do now? Try to emulate Dominic Cummings, or maybe she will restart her old home of the Revolutionary Communist Party. More seriously: is she going to go quietly or will she spill the beans which she must know.
From the tone of her letter of resignation, I don't expect her to be Cummings mark II. A very professional resignation letter. I don't think she will struggle to get further employment
 
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