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When the heritage line is in the way...

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MarkyT

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Don't blame the builder. More likely that a bunch of plonkers (councillors) gave permission to do so. In fairness, we were all plonkers in those days. No one envisaged the rail renaissance in 1965.
I have read that prior to the Blair Government, local authorities were not permitted to use planning procedures at all to safeguard trackbeds for future rail use, unless they already had funded plans for reopening them. They WERE, however, allowed to protect routes for unfunded new road aspirations. The rules were undoubtedly formulated specifically to scupper future rail reopenings, as in built up areas once a vital station site is blocked by a just a dozen executive detached homes, costs and politics often mean the route is thence forever blocked for all but a major scheme of national importance with bottomless pockets, even if 95% of the rest of the alignment remains clear. In many towns, there is simply no other viable route around such an obstruction. The danger for councils was that if they attempted to refuse a development to protect an alignment, on appeal the rules would be applied strictly by a Government inspector to overturn the decision and allow the development, with the authority then incurring legal costs and often having to pay compensation to the developer. So much for local democracy, their hands were tied in this respect.
 
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HowardGWR

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I have read that prior to the Blair Government, local authorities were not permitted to use planning procedures at all to safeguard trackbeds for future rail use, unless they already had funded plans for reopening them. They WERE, however, allowed to protect routes for unfunded new road aspirations. The rules were undoubtedly formulated specifically to scupper future rail reopenings, as in built up areas once a vital station site is blocked by a just a dozen executive detached homes, costs and politics often mean the route is thence forever blocked for all but a major scheme of national importance with bottomless pockets, even if 95% of the rest of the alignment remains clear. In many towns, there is simply no other viable route around such an obstruction. The danger for councils was that if they attempted to refuse a development to protect an alignment, on appeal the rules would be applied strictly by a Government inspector to overturn the decision and allow the development, with the authority then incurring legal costs and often having to pay compensation to the developer. So much for local democracy, their hands were tied in this respect.

Agreed. Having been a 'plonker' myself, in my experience, it's perhaps just a little more involved, in the matter of funding. One could only refuse planning consent for dwellings if the site concerned was reserved in the Local Plan for something else. If a road scheme was mooted and land reserved, it would be protected, regardless of available funding at that point, as you point out. The difference lies in the Local Plan process. If someone put forward a scheme for a rail reopening or a road scheme, to a Local Plan Inquiry (and anyone could and can), the Inspector would require evidence that there was a realistic chance of it being constructed. In the case of roads, since the 1960s, support for such schemes has been present in every local council, most of whose Members drive to meetings, as indeed I did. Thus an Inspector would report that the road scheme enjoyed support at District and County level (perhaps National too) and would recommend it be shewn on the Local Plan, as it would be possible to envisage that funding would eventually be found in the queue for funding.

Now contrast with the rail scheme. The only proponents until recently would have been from the enthusiast circles or environmentally conscious people; certainly not from BR or its successors. Their evidence would find no support from the local authorities other than perhaps a parish council where often one person can dominate proceedings (easily done at that level). The evidence would be poorly prepared and come over as a hand-waving rant. That, unfortunately is still often the case, although the Inspectors themselves have become more environmentally conscious, as the rest of society has.

I think it is possible that the 'Thatcher years' did indeed have a down on rail, but that wasn't difficult, as it reflected the majority of society, when the car was king. In most local councils outside city areas, the car still is king.
 

billio

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I suppose it boils down to political will. Disused railway lines are most likely to be blocked in metropolitan areas where the need and justification for re-opening is probably highest . It might be painful and very unfortunate to people having to leave the
What were the main issues? I would have thought that there would be demand during peak times. I commute along the M66 every day and there is plenty of Manchester bound commuter traffic
If the Bury - Heywood - Castleton line was used for heavy rail, there could be a park and ride station at Heap Bridge just off Junction 2 with services running into Victoria and beyond.
(If such a service ran, it might also be worth considering a park and ride station at the end of the A627M spur to Rochdale Road for commuters coming from Yorkshire on the M62/A627M .)
In my opinion north Manchester needs a serious review of the future development of the heavy rail network.
 

B&I

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There's little unobstructed trackbed remaining on the old Brixham branch. The Terminus and about 1km on approach is completely built over. At the Churston end the first 350m is obstructed by expensive exclusive housing next to the golf course. That leaves about 1.5km across some fields, with no views and no main line connection. Hardly a great attraction for tourists or enthusiasts .

Quite. It's a fully commercial operation. The company also operates a large network of commercial summer leisure boats around Torbay and along the Dart as well as the Dartmouth - Kingswear passenger ferry.


Well that kibboshes that particular relocation. Shame as Brixham is one of the nicest small towns I've ever visited
 

Chester1

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I suppose it boils down to political will. Disused railway lines are most likely to be blocked in metropolitan areas where the need and justification for re-opening is probably highest . It might be painful and very unfortunate to people having to leave the

If the Bury - Heywood - Castleton line was used for heavy rail, there could be a park and ride station at Heap Bridge just off Junction 2 with services running into Victoria and beyond.
(If such a service ran, it might also be worth considering a park and ride station at the end of the A627M spur to Rochdale Road for commuters coming from Yorkshire on the M62/A627M .)
In my opinion north Manchester needs a serious review of the future development of the heavy rail network.

Freight flows are not sufficiently reliable to be the basis of a business case for reopening a line. In the case of Bolton-Bury the line could be reopened as part of Metrolink with very limited demolition work and a triangular junction would allow Bolton-Manchester trams for intermediate journeys. A light rail reopening would also maintain the importance of Bury interchange and not require any changes to the ELR.

Bury-Heywood-Castleton is a different matter because of the low cost of reintroducing a heavy rail service. It would be possible to segregate the tracks and platforms at Bury Bolton Street to have only one connection between Bury-Heywood and the rest of the ELR to enable complete seperation Monday to Friday or Saturday. I suspect any return of NR services would be dependent on the Metrolink line exceeding its capacity. If the proposed Crumpsall-Middleton line is built then it will make 15tph between Crumpsall and Bury unlikely due the cost of new city centre capacity. If 10tph becomes insufficient then extending a DMU service from Victoria to Bury Bolton Street and upgrading part of the ELR would be a cheap option.
 

Journeyman

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Reopenings are so woefully rare, the situation hasn't arisen.

Really? There's been quite a few in Scotland recently, including Airdrie - Bathgate and the Borders Railway.

If the Wealden Line Campaign got their way, the Spa Valley and Lavender Lines are in the way.
 

AndrewE

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I would guess that the Avon Valley Railway must be one at risk. It's ironic that Bristol city's green agenda will be bound to put more rail access up the agenda and another Bath to Bristol line would fit the bill.
Anyway, as others have said, as most heritage lines are single track and as most reopenings are done on a shoe-string then 2 parallel single lines should be able to be fitted in, with dynamic loops on the new real railway sited appropriately. Bike paths can be squeezed in too, as shown by the Airdrie reopening...
 

Chester1

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On the topic of commuter traffic to Rawtenstall and impact on the ELR:

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/16...act-of-rail-plans-on-east-lancashire-railway/

Might just be noisy associates of mine, but I've seen a lot of Facebook discussion about rail/tram to Rossendale (or rather lack of).

The chances of trams or tram trains on the ELR is virtually nil due to the capital costs. Heavy rail is possible if commuting into Manchester continues to grow. Several years ago the business case for heavy rail services was killed by the economic benefits that the ELR brought to the area. Any proposal to use the whole line would need to require keeping herritage services in some form e.g. sole use of line at weekends. A good start would be extending DMUs terminating at Victoria to Heywood. The southbound junction is out of use and the old double track formation could be used to provide a single track link to a single platform station at Heywood without interfering with ELR opperations. GMCA wants to link Middleton, Leigh and Heywood to either Metrolink or NR. A business case and plans are being written for Crumpsall to Middleton Metrolink extension. Leigh got the guided busway as an interim measure and hopefully will get a Parkway station or link line to Chat Moss in the long term. A heavy rail link to Heywood would be much cheaper than Metrolink and would link into DfTs strategy of reducing the number of services terminating at Victoria. 2tph turning around at Rochdale and 2tph at Stalybridge is already insufficient.
 

DelW

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On the topic of commuter traffic to Rawtenstall and impact on the ELR:

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/16...act-of-rail-plans-on-east-lancashire-railway/

Might just be noisy associates of mine, but I've seen a lot of Facebook discussion about rail/tram to Rossendale (or rather lack of).
There is an example of shared modern tram and heritage railway operations, though not in this country.

At Nordhausen in (former East) Germany, the town trams are extended to run over part of the southern section of the Harz Mountain railway (HSB), which is a tourist-orientated heritage steam and diesel line (though I think it's run as a commercial / local government supported operation rather than by a volunteer preservation group). Their line is not electrified, so a small number of trams serving the relevant route are fitted with an on-board diesel engine and generator set to provide power over the HSB section. It seems to work in providing a regular commuter and public transport service fitting in between the less frequent HSB trains.
 

markindurham

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Just a thought - any potential reopenings of routes that are presently in the cold, dead hands of Sustrans - I can see problems there, public transport or not. Once Sustrans get hold of something, they are reluctant to release it, as I recall
 

yorksrob

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Really? There's been quite a few in Scotland recently, including Airdrie - Bathgate and the Borders Railway.

If the Wealden Line Campaign got their way, the Spa Valley and Lavender Lines are in the way.

Exactly. Reopenings beyond the dreams of avarice up in Scotland. Squat all down here in England as usual.
 
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