When schools return - impact on buses

[MotCO]

School chidren in England will soon be going back to school. Prior to lockdown, the local buses (not School Specials, but ordinary buses) were rammed. Given that buses now have much reduced capacities, how will children get to school? Will they be relying on parents to drive them, will there be extra buses laid over the normal schedules just for school children, or what will happen?

I think I am right in thinking that children in Scotland return earlier than their English counterparts; if so, what is happening in Scotland?

 

[BJames]

I'm not sure 1) if this is definitely the plan (I assume it is but haven't found the TfL statement they're referring to in the article) or 2) if this has been mentioned elsewhere yet. But this popped up on my Facebook feed the other day: https://www.mylondon.news/news/local-news/london-bus-coronavirus-travel-rules-18788777

Transport for London has announced a drastic change to London buses when children return to school in September.

Commuters will be banned from boarding every other bus on some busy rush-hour routes in the capital in order to give schoolchildren priority.

This will mean longer wait times at bus stops for adults from next month.

Pupils and students in London made around 1.5million bus journeys every day before lockdown.

Plans include dedicating a number of buses for school travel on those high-frequency routes that TfL has forecasted to be the busiest.


With school starting again in September, TfL is making plans for the surge in demand for buses, with more than 200 extra dedicated school buses on some routes.

More surprisingly, the buses will also be able to be completely full - with schoolchildren allowed to sit on all the seats rather than socially distance.

In a statement TfL said: "Government guidance allows for all available seats to be occupied on dedicated school services, increasing the capacity of these buses.

More than 3,000 schools have been advised on encouraging active travel and staggered start and end times, with bespoke plans for those schools served by the busiest bus routes for school travel.

A new dedicated webpage for education providers gives the latest advice and useful resources for schools to encourage safe and sustainable travel among their pupils.

What do people think of this, if this is TfL's plan going forwards?

Just to add: Although initially sceptical I think it probably makes the most sense with the amount of vehicles and drivers they've got available especially with lower levels of commuting at the moment. The only real other option is just to let schoolkids board all buses, losing social distancing and commuters and other passengers would have to just deal with it. You can't get all kids dropped off at school, many parents (especially in London) don't have cars, or I suspect some are using their cars for commuting rather than public transport at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==

Oh, and for the record, yes, Scottish kids have gone back already. According to gov.scot:

During term-time, school age childcare services regularly care for children from a range of different schools. In many cases, the children are transported to the school age childcare service using private service operators, while other services rely on school buses to transport children, particularly in rural areas.

Dedicated transport used by the service should be regarded as an extension of the premises and physical distancing measures between children attending the service are not necessary (subject to continued low levels of infection within Scotland).

But that's only for private school buses. If you're looking at general public transport services frequented by school children:

Providers should ensure that local arrangements and advice to staff, parents, carers and children and young people for travelling to and from their setting is consistent with the latest national guidance. Elements that could be considered include:

• encouraging staff, parents, carers and children and young people to plan their journey to and from the setting, and to minimise pressure on public transport and the road network through walking or cycling where possible;
• encouraging children and young people and parents/carers to follow physical distancing when travelling to and from the setting as advised in the above guidance;
• encouraging staff and children and young people to wash or sanitise hands before and after travelling;
• options to minimise the number of staff and children and young people travelling at peak times, for example through staggering start and finish times;
• when travelling on public transport or in a taxi or private hire vehicle or when in a bus or railway station, passengers over the age of five must wear a face covering unless they have a condition for which a face covering would be inappropriate.

Which doesn't clear up much really. I'd be interested to hear from our Scottish residents if anyone's aware of how this is (or isn't) working out in practice for school journeys at the moment.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I haven't seen for myself what's happening in Dundee, but from what I've heard one operator is turning kids away once the "advisory capacity" (19 on a single, 32 on a decker) is reached, but the other doesn't have an "advisory capacity" and so isn't bothering. Most teens are wearing their masks as chin ornaments, if at all, when sat on the bus - drivers don't have the power to enforce this, of course. Parents have suggested the headteacher enforces it - but it's not really his business either. There's no priorities given - first come first served basically (as pre-COVID).

A few home-to-school transport operators have mandated face coverings (no clue why, as they're basically schools on wheels , but if it makes people "feel safer"...), but the majority haven't. Distancing isn't required on these services, as quoted above by @BJames, so no capacity issues here.

I'll try and report if I hear anything else, but I'm doing my best to avoid public transport at school times so won't be able to give much first hand info.

 

[johnnychips]

On my commute from Doncaster to where I work, there are three secondary schools after where I get off. There are extra services to these schools from far-flung areas which are theoretically open to the public, but practically are just full of kids. However from the centre of Doncaster the normal ‘service’ buses which I catch are usually rammed in the direction of these schools with, I would say, 90% kids and 10% adults. It will be interesting to see how this works

 

[MotCO]

Commuters will be banned from boarding every other bus on some busy rush-hour routes in the capital in order to give schoolchildren priority.

The only way I can see this working is if the buses display the normal route number, but have School Special in the destination box, so the buses only carry school children. However, I think every other bus is too many - maybe one School Special per route and see how it goes.

 

[_toommm_]

The only way I can see this working is if the buses display the normal route number, but have School Special in the destination box, so the buses only carry school children. However, I think every other bus is too many - maybe one School Special per route and see how it goes.

Or by running dedicated school versions of that route with either a suffix or a prefix - say the letter ‘S’, or put the number in the 6xx series. Don’t advertise it at the bus stops so adults don’t know about it. That’s what South Yorkshire did when Brightbus still existed, and it worked rather well.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

School chidren in England will soon be going back to school. Prior to lockdown, the local buses (not School Specials, but ordinary buses) were rammed. Given that buses now have much reduced capacities, how will children get to school? Will they be relying on parents to drive them, will there be extra buses laid over the normal schedules just for school children, or what will happen?

I think I am right in thinking that children in Scotland return earlier than their English counterparts; if so, what is happening in Scotland?

My local company, Go-Ahead Metrobus (based in Crawley, West Sussex, England) will run some journeys where only school children are allowed on board, but with no social distancing whatsoever.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

My local company, Go-Ahead Metrobus (based in Crawley, West Sussex, England) will run some journeys where only school children are allowed on board, but with no social distancing whatsoever.

Stagecoach South and Stagecoach South East will also be doing the same.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Locally (Stoke-on-Trent) some D & G timetables have now appeared with some journeys replaced by 's' suffixed journeys ie creating a gap in service for non-schoolchildren passengers (1, 1A). On other routes (16, 16A), previous 'sch' journeys - essentially duplicates which diverted to schools and would only have carried schoolhildren, have been removed from the public timetable altogether - I guess they will still run. On another route (317), a journey is shown as 's' for schoolchildren only and special fares apply. There is also reference to 'another bus following closely behind, operated by another (unknown / unnamed) operator'.

 

[Busaholic]

The only way I can see this working is if the buses display the normal route number, but have School Special in the destination box, so the buses only carry school children. However, I think every other bus is too many - maybe one School Special per route and see how it goes.

The idea doesn't fit well with the Hoppa concept, especially if your first bus has had its routeing cut back on the basis that you could change within the hour to a second route, to find you're forbidden to get on that second bus and have to pay again when you are finally allowed to board. It's tremendously detrimental to getting bus passenger levels back up to pre-pandemic levels, and probably contravenes disability anti-discrimination legislation.

 

[MotCO]

I think the London Omnibus Traction Society has answered the question as to how it will apply to London:

" Operators are currently trying to get around 200 extra buses onto TfL services to provide extra capacity at school times from the September term. These would be identified by a V-prefix to the route number and are expected to be restricted to school pupils only. Mostly they would be sourced from what would normally have been withdrawn stock although in some cases some inbound loans will be needed." http://www.lots.org.uk/

 

[alex397]

In my area there are still a number of commuters who use local bus services, and I used to be one of them. Some morning journeys are often very busy, with standing passengers - mostly school children, but also a small percentage of commuters. Of course, many of these commuters may no longer use the bus as they are working at home (or made redundant!), but this will be a further off-putting for that group of people.

This will become especially difficult for infrequent services. Regent Coaches, the operator of Kent County Council route 620, has announced this: "From Tuesday 1st September 2020. THE FOLLOWING JOURNEYS CAN NOW ONLY BE USED BY CHILDREN ATTENDING SCHOOL. NO ADULTS CAN TRAVEL ON THESE JOURNEYS: Service 620: 0734 Hastingleigh to Canterbury 1535 Canterbury to Hastingleigh" ( Link here ) . With this route as a case study, any adult will no longer be able to use the 0734 morning peak journey, so will have to find another way in (but would be able to use the return post-school peak afternoon journey). The amount of people using such routes to reach work will be very minimal, if there are any at all, but in the past I have observed this particular route having workers using it (perhaps 1-2, but still). This lightly-used route perhaps isn't the best case study, but I can imagine there will be better examples across the country. This will particularly penalise disabled people who travel to work, who have no other choice. (I can't think of a better way to do this though, unless you put more buses on, which obviously is not going to always be possible).

While many bus routes are 'closed door', so don't have to worry about adult passengers, many other routes are 'public', including routes aimed at school children (such as the many schoolday-only routes Stagecoach South East operate). Those schoolday-only public routes won't be so much of a problem, but its those ordinary routes which have school children using them which may be problematic.

It shall also be interesting instructing teenagers to only get on certain buses....

Hopefully everything will largely work smoothly, but I feel for the drivers who already have a busy job in early September every year as it is...

 

[Andyh82]

In West Yorks, Metro have now published a long list of services that will be duplicated at school times, those that pass schools where kids use the public network

Also many extra journeys that were basically ran as extras for schools anyway have been formalised into school buses

 

[travis4NM]

School chidren in England will soon be going back to school. Prior to lockdown, the local buses (not School Specials, but ordinary buses) were rammed. Given that buses now have much reduced capacities, how will children get to school? Will they be relying on parents to drive them, will there be extra buses laid over the normal schedules just for school children, or what will happen?

I think that they gonna return the buses, but also gonna create some restrictions and rules, how to keep a distance, etc. And talking of which, I'm pretty curious how do best private schools in england resolve this type of problem? Yes, I understand that most of the pupils and students don't have problems with transport while they study in expensive schools, but some of them still use it.

 

[Huntergreed]

In Scotland (where I live) extra buses have been put on, and pupils have been allocated a certain bus where it’s a public service bus to ensure distancing can be kept. Masks are mandated on both school special buses and service buses for all over 5.

 

[PG]

Masks are mandated on both school special buses and service buses for all over 5.

AFAIK this is not currently the situation (in Scotland) in respect of dedicated school buses but will be from Monday.

 

[clockend]

Government guidance allows all seats on school only buses to be used, so thats why they’re dedicating buses.

 

[island]

The idea doesn't fit well with the Hoppa concept, especially if your first bus has had its routeing cut back on the basis that you could change within the hour to a second route, to find you're forbidden to get on that second bus and have to pay again when you are finally allowed to board. It's tremendously detrimental to getting bus passenger levels back up to pre-pandemic levels, and probably contravenes disability anti-discrimination legislation.

Section 15 (1) (b) of the Equality Act 2010 will protect them from a contravention of same.

I suspect missed Hopper fares can be claimed back from the helpline if one is affected – bearing in mind that many frequent bus travellers will hit daily and/or weekly caps regardless.

 

[Geordie driver]

I have just read the UK govt. " Transport to school guidance". There is almost nothing in it about the safety of drivers, the only bit I could see was this

" Drivers and passenger assistants will not normally require PPE on home to school transport, even if they are not able to maintain a distance from the children and young people on the transport. This is because, as set out above, children and young people with symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) must not board home to school transport."

So they should be safe as no one with symptoms will board? Does anyone really believe this?

It's worth a read and is clearly written by someone with little idea of the real world and no care for drivers. Are they still in one of the highest risk groups?

 

[Yew]

I have just read the UK govt. " Transport to school guidance". There is almost nothing in it about the safety of drivers, the only bit I could see was this

" Drivers and passenger assistants will not normally require PPE on home to school transport, even if they are not able to maintain a distance from the children and young people on the transport. This is because, as set out above, children and young people with symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) must not board home to school transport."

So they should be safe as no one with symptoms will board? Does anyone really believe this?

It's worth a read and is clearly written by someone with little idea of the real world and no care for drivers. Are they still in one of the highest risk groups?

I think statistically it's fairly unlikely due to the current combination of prevalence rate, exposure time, self isolation and (hopefully) existing or newly fitted screens to protect the driver.

 

[BJames]

I have just read the UK govt. " Transport to school guidance". There is almost nothing in it about the safety of drivers, the only bit I could see was this

" Drivers and passenger assistants will not normally require PPE on home to school transport, even if they are not able to maintain a distance from the children and young people on the transport. This is because, as set out above, children and young people with symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) must not board home to school transport."

So they should be safe as no one with symptoms will board? Does anyone really believe this?

It's worth a read and is clearly written by someone with little idea of the real world and no care for drivers. Are they still in one of the highest risk groups?

That might as well just say nobody needs to wear face masks or distance anymore because everyone with coronavirus symptoms is isolating and not leaving their house - so life should go back to normal for everyone except those with symptoms... guess asymptomatic transmission is no longer a problem then...

The message keeps changing and doesn't make sense.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I have just made the stupid mistake of going out at schools out time... First bus was 10 minutes late, and drove past around 60 school kids as it was "full" (there were still 6 or 7 double seats upstairs). I got off, the second bus arrived with a handful onboard, did not adhere to the advisory capacity (of 32) and piled the majority of kids on (upstairs, filling back to front) and departed full. The bus behind then picked up the remaining 10-15 kids, then also departed full.

So that is 3 buses on a 15 minute frequency (usually 10 minute) all departing full. The passengers at the stop directly after the school would have waited at least 45 minutes. It will be interesting to see what happens in early October when the University returns.

 

[johnnychips]

Waited 40 minutes for a bus as one after another went past ‘bus full’. The problem is that even though there are dedicated school services, many students use ‘service’ buses, which are running at half capacity.

 

[Geordie driver]

Waited 40 minutes for a bus as one after another went past ‘bus full’. The problem is that even though there are dedicated school services, many students use ‘service’ buses, which are running at half capacity.

Indeed, but they can't be forced into the school specials. Refuse them travel and mummy will be in the local rag the next day with her " vunerable" little darlings and the driver will be getting it in the neck.

 

[geoffk]

Government guidance allows all seats on school only buses to be used, so that's why they’re dedicating buses.

I've had an e-mail from First which states - "As confirmed by the Department for Education, social distancing will not be required on board school-only services, as they will be sharing a bus with others from their school, and not with members of the public. These buses will operate at almost full capacity, the 50% capacity restrictions do not apply."

So, while social distancing (and masks) will be required where scholars and adults share the same bus, they will not be required on dedicated school buses. Clearly therefore more kids can be carried on dedicated buses as they can fill all the seats. This must also apply to trains, according to the separate thread about the Oban train, where it's stated that any members of the public must transfer to a minibus when the scholars get on, in effect making it a school-only train.

A few points here -
Scholars entitled to free transport may have a "closed contract bus" provided, or they may be issued with a season ticket for a service bus, tram or a train. Those not entitled to free transport may use public buses/trains or else are taken by car. The Covid rules add another dimension to an already complex situation from which I'm glad to have retired!

School transport provided by a "closed contract" is, by definition, restricted to scholars only. Most of these would be of little use to the general public. But many scholars are carried on registered local bus services which can, and often do, carry the general public. Some are marked "schooldays only" in the timetable. We could see a trend towards excluding the public from these in order to avoid running with empty seats.

Will the Oban situation arise on trains elsewhere? Worcester, Exeter and Whitby come to mind as having a large school movement by train. I did surveys in Worcester some years ago and there were large numbers of kids on several trains.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I've had an e-mail from First which states - "As confirmed by the Department for Education, social distancing will not be required on board school-only services, as they will be sharing a bus with others from their school, and not with members of the public. These buses will operate at almost full capacity, the 50% capacity restrictions do not apply."

So, while social distancing (and masks) will be required where scholars and adults share the same bus, they will not be required on dedicated school buses. Clearly therefore more kids can be carried on dedicated buses as they can fill all the seats. This must also apply to trains, according to the separate thread about the Oban train, where it's stated that any members of the public must transfer to a minibus when the scholars get on, in effect making it a school-only train.

A few points here -
Scholars entitled to free transport may have a "closed contract bus" provided, or they may be issued with a season ticket for a service bus, tram or a train. Those not entitled to free transport may use public buses/trains or else are taken by car. The Covid rules add another dimension to an already complex situation from which I'm glad to have retired!

School transport provided by a "closed contract" is, by definition, restricted to scholars only. Most of these would be of little use to the general public. But many scholars are carried on registered local bus services which can, and often do, carry the general public. Some are marked "schooldays only" in the timetable. We could see a trend towards excluding the public from these in order to avoid running with empty seats.

Will the Oban situation arise on trains elsewhere? Worcester, Exeter and Whitby come to mind as having a large school movement by train. I did surveys in Worcester some years ago and there were large numbers of kids on several trains.

I would have thought that the Oban situation is unique. That train essentially (am and pm) operates as a shuttle service, rather than the full length of the line and in an area with very sparse population. So it has limited use to the general public (I admire the forum user keen to leave Glasgow at 0520!). On the other hand, the Whitby service, certainly the afternoon service, is heavily used by day-trippers returning up the Esk Valley and to Middlesbrough. My limited experience suggests more ordinary passengers than schoolchildren.

As to bus services, a 'schooldays only' service would generally have little attraction to the general public, with it not operating for 13 or so weeks per year. One problem would be where there is a 'sch' and a 'nsch' variant of the same journey ie similar route / times. If the 'sch' journey were to be made 'closed contract', that would leave regular users out on a limb. Certain services locally have just done that and a large gap has appeared in the afternoon timetable - just at the time people may be returning home from shopping / leisure trips. That is a feature of many bus timetables nowadays (pre-COVID) where the bus is borrowed to provide a vehicle for a school-run (alternatively the bus is efficiently utilised to provide a service at marginal cost between profitable school runs).

The local First company (Potteries) has made clear where schoolchildren will be expected to share their journey with other passengers, and will have to mask up and socially distance accordingly.

 

[geoffk]

Just thought of another issue - what happens if a scholars-only bus is shared by pupils from more than one school? Will the "no social distancing needed" rule still apply? Or where staggered school hours allow the same bus to do two runs, each serving a different school? Will it have to be thoroughly cleaned between runs?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Just thought of another issue - what happens if a scholars-only bus is shared by pupils from more than one school? Will the "no social distancing needed" rule still apply? Or where staggered school hours allow the same bus to do two runs, each serving a different school? Will it have to be thoroughly cleaned between runs?

An absolute minefield!

Kids are meant to remain in their school bubbles, but obviously a 'classroom bubble' will be a different set of pupils from a 'schoolbus bubble', different again from a 'two-schools, same bus bubble'.

Certainly lots of North Yorkshire contracts see the same vehicle being used for different schools in immediate succession - with no time to clean between runs. The answer is to clean the children rather than the vehicle?

Walking past a local coach operator yesterday (Copelands), they have acquired a number of double-deckers (at least four), presumably for the newly issued closed contracts. They have never had double-deckers before that I know of. Unless the buses were being stored / prepared for use for another operator.

 

[geoffk]

A colleague tells me that, last October, the morning peak for the local University required 14 double deckers and passengers were still being left at stops. Can University buses be designed as school buses to exempt them from the social distancing rules?

 

[PTR 444]

A colleague tells me that, last October, the morning peak for the local University required 14 double deckers and passengers were still being left at stops. Can University buses be designed as school buses to exempt them from the social distancing rules?

I think Bournemouth’s Unibus network (operated by Go South Coast) used to be for students only, so it could be possible in certain towns and cities provided that there is an alternative service available for the rest of the general public.