When rail travel for disabled people goes wrong

[deltic]

Rather depressing but not surprising BBC item on disabled passengers left stranded

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-ouch-26875081

Stranded on trains, denied an accessible loo and forced to be carried through step-filled stations. Disabled rail travellers tell 5 live Investigates what happens when the system designed to help them doesn't work.

"Does the other end know I'm coming?"

This is the refrain wheelchair-user Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson repeats time and again to staff on every train journey.

It may sound overzealous but Grey-Thompson says that while it makes for a stressful trip, lots of people who write to her about travel experiences do the same. Many disabled travellers worry that they won't be met with the help they need at the other end.

"I've been left on a train at 01:00, with no ramp to help me off," she tells 5live Investigates.


The crossbench peer works in London and lives in the Northeast of England. She travels regularly between the two by train, arranging help in advance via Passenger Assist, a specialist booking system for disabled people to reserve seats and arrange extra help at stations.

When no ramp materialised for Grey-Thompson that night, she says, "I had to get out of my chair onto the floor near the toilet, crawl off and push my chair off."

Baroness Grey-Thompson goes public when things go wrong, tweeting and writing about her experiences, "to make it better for other people", she says.

Speaking again of the night she was left stranded, she says, "If I'd been in a situation where I wasn't as mobile as I am, I'm not sure how long I would have been stuck on that train."

A report critiquing the Passenger Assist service by the watchdog Passenger Focus says that despite booking help in advance, there was no assistance for disabled mystery shoppers to help them get off the train in 21% of cases.


The survey highlighted issues that are only too real for some disabled travellers. Claire Jones from Leeds, who uses a mobility scooter, recently booked assistance but a no-show meant that rather than alight at Birmingham as planned, she was forced to travel on to Cheltenham, 40 miles down the line.

"When you have a disability like mine, which affects your energy levels, there is only a certain amount of time you can sit in a scooter. It determines how much time you can travel."

Another issue uncovered by the recent investigation into the Passenger Assist Scheme was disabled travellers not being given all the information they needed about a journey. There were instances where the mystery shoppers who'd been testing the system found that stations were less accessible than they were led to believe.

Wheelchair user Paula Moulton tells 5 live that on one occasion she'd been made aware that a station's platforms weren't accessible via ramp, but decided that she could manage this in her manual chair by careful manoeuvring.

However, a "bizarre surprise" awaited her on arrival. "What they didn't tell us was that there were two flights of stairs and a bridge to get over to the other side. Some really nice guys picked me up and carried me, which I hate happening, but I hadn't got an option."


In the past, lack of information has left Tanni Grey-Thompson without an accessible toilet for up to five hours.

"Disabled people are used to making lots of decisions about how they travel," she says. If given the right information about the loo situation, "you don't drink for an hour and a half before you get on the train to make sure you don't need to use the bathroom".

But what Baroness Grey-Thompson says challenges her most is that these "aren't decisions any non-disabled person has to make".

Having to book help a day in advance to guarantee assistance is a particular gripe of hers. "Disabled people just want to make decisions to meet a friend for lunch, or to just do something different. We don't always know 24 hours in advance what time we want to travel."


A spokesperson for the Department for Transport said, "The Passenger Assist Scheme is a vital service and we expect train operating companies to ensure it is working well. That is why we helped to fund a study into the system, and we will look to the rail industry to take forward any recommendations."

A spokesperson for the Rail Delivery Group, which speaks on behalf of the industry said:

"We apologise to anyone who hasn't had the service they expect. The industry has worked hard to improve facilities for disabled passengers which are better now than they've ever been with record numbers choosing to travel by train.

"While the UK recently came top of Europe's seven major railways for accessibility, the industry is always looking to improve and to provide the best experience possible to disabled passengers."

Minister of State for Transport, Baroness Kramer, tells 5 live Investigates that fining companies for failing to provide assistance is the wrong approach. She says that instead we have to "culturally embed, from the top of the company down to the humblest person that (they) have as much of a duty to serve a disabled person as anybody else."

Grey-Thompson says that getting assistance right and making trains and stations more accessible is important because "changes to welfare support mean that people who might have had a motability car in the past won't - so there will be more people taking public transport".

 

[jonty14]

Unbelievable that this is still happening in this day and age. Disabled people have many problems to deal with. They don't need these ones as well. I

 

[Greenback]

There is clearly still room for improvement. Disabled passengers who book assistance are entitled to expect that the assistance will appear at the right time and in the right place.

 

[ainsworth74]

I experienced this at Eton and Windsor Central (or Riverside, whichever is the FGW served one from Slough). Wheelchair user and their carer boarded at Slough with no problem using a ramp provided by platform staff. On arrival at the other end everyone got off, apart from these two, as they waited for a someone to put down the ramp to help them off. This never showed up and in the end I had to carry the wheelchair off the train or they would have ended up being taken back to Slough!

 

[LBSCR Times]

Unfortunately, what happens too often with unbooked / short notice advice, is that a station will help a disabled passenger on board the train, then try and phone the station they are travelling to, to let them know they are coming. Then, when they cannot get hold of them, phone Control and expect them to sort it out.......

 

[Greenback]

Exactly, Ainsworth, and it's something I've also seen myself. Disabled people should not be put in the position where they have booked assistance which has not been provided, and so have to rely on others for help instead.

Naturally, no system is ever 100% perfect with the best will in the world, but this sort of thing is happening far too often.

 

[w0033944]

As a disabled person, though not a user of the national rail network, my perception, which seems to be supported by situations such as this is that, until attitudes change, such schemes are likely to be haphazard and unreliable.

As regards those attitudes, the mindset of many seems to be that people with all manner of disabilities are being awkward* by expecting better treatment than everyone else - the term "why do they think they're entitled to preferential treatment?" is asked by well-meaning people who have never imagined themselves in a similar position. I've even read similar here on RailUK. Of course, the point is that the so-called "preferential treatment" is merely an adjustment to level the playing field a bit. We're used to adapting our attitudes and expectations in other situations (the concept of handicapping in golf wouldn't exist without such realisation), but the idea that attitudes and approaches may need to be modified to help disabled people seems anathema.


*I agree of course that, as with any other section of the general population, the ranks of disabled people contain several awkward and unreasonable individuals who do expect mountains to be moved when it's simply impracticable to do so.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I will say this and then duck sharply, note, I not deliberately staff bashing or anything but I am not in the least bit shocked at the problems Ms Tompson has experienced - in my many experience, Kings Cross have even since the haydays of GNER been universally Rubbish at providing the service in the 1st place and getting it rite on the rare occasions when they do.


↲since the demise of Nat X East Coast the KGX levels of crappyness have spread up the ECML with previous ↲Strongholds of good service like York and Newcastle falling victim.at my local station Edinburgh, East Coast now provide assistance for all 5 TOCs and even jobs booked miles ahead are often not done, staff make it look like a huge effort and anyone without a booking may as well forget it and expect a bit of verble to boot, sadly staff at other stations atempting to deal with them get this also.

As to the Passenger Assist system itself its a bit hit or miss depending on quite a number of things. Some TOCs use Foreign Call Centres or call centres with staff unfamilior with the TOC, its route, rolling stock or stations and its not unknown for a warning to flash up on there screen (which im told its ment to do) about an unstaffed or potentially inaccessible station and be ignored. The online booking works when it feels like it and is not clever with many details often being wrong. The best experiences iv had have iether been at stations or with certain TOCs, East Coast not being one. Scotrail, Virgin and Northern stand out as good examples sorry to be so frank but its true.

 

[Merseysider]

While not disabled myself, I've noticed Merseyrail seem to do a pretty good job of assisting disabled passengers; having used them for over 10 years I cannot recall one instance where a disabled passenger did not receive assistance getting off the train. Even if the boarding station has only one ticket booth and no TVM, I've seen the clerk on duty ring ahead to 'the other end' and leave the booth to make sure the passenger gets on the train safely, sticking a notice up for customers to pay at the other end. (Even when it appears assistance has not been booked).

It's impossible to reserve seats on Merseyrail but I've seen staff ask other passengers to budge so the wheelchair user gets some space. The passengers are normally more than happy to budge. And the staff always appear really happy to be helping said passenger. And there's a ramp stored at every station on the network.

Why can't we see this sort of approach nationwide?

 

[Greenback]

In my experience, gained when working on the railway, it was more likely a systemic problem rather than a staff problem. The difficulties arose more with the booking system, and incorrect or inaccurate information being passed down to station level. Although I admit that there were occasionally problems caused by insufficient staff resource being available. These instances were usually at times of great disruption, with trains running late and staff unable to be in two or even three places at once.

 

[Blindtraveler]

There is clearly still room for improvement. Disabled passengers who book assistance are entitled to expect that the assistance will appear at the right time and in the right place.

Agreed and despite my above rant many good examples exist with again VT, Norther and Scotrail generally good and LM deserving of praise with short notice/unbooked assists/delays/altered journey plans etc. The areas for major improvement, other than the problems and atitudes mentioned above are the quality of info given to travelers and training for staff.

For an example of the former on my last lads holiday to Blackpool we observed a wheelchair board the TPE 185 from Waverley which like us changed at Preston. The passenger was traveling on towards Polton but the opperater who had made the booking clearly wasnt aware that Transpenine wernt the soul opperater on that line and, yess, you guessed it, in pulls a bus seat 142! Q angry passenger and a taxi, the next guaranteed accessible unit being some time away! The lady in question had been told that only TPE worked this line, meaning the chances of anything other than a 185 dropping on it were remote!

An example of the latter is that very few opperaters seam aware that if you have a guide dog, it is possible, subject to availabilitty to book an entire table of 4 so you and dog can be accommodated with dog under the table. Manys the time me and the wife have ended up on tipup seats in the disabled area, denying travel to wheelchairs and in many cases not cumfortable.anyway enough winging from me, I just hope things improve and am happy to help them do so!

 

[Urban Gateline]

From a staff point of view at Watford, we do try hard to make assistance work. Quite often unbooked wheelchair users appear at the barriers 2mins before a train to where they want to go (mainly London Euston).

One of us rushes over to the London bound platform which is not always staffed and dispite the wheelchair user needing to use the lift to get to the Platform, we manage to get them onto the train in that short time frame.

I immediately call the station where the person is going to ensure they are met there (we have internal and mobile numbers for nearly each served station so rarely have problems contacting them!) After that we rely on the other station to meet the assistance though. I guess it would be harder with smaller stations with no/part time staffing or who have staff on restricted duties so cannot use ramps/operate stairlifts.

There is also one LM route where Platform staff are sent onboard the train with a ramp to help with any booked wheelchair assistances as the conductors refuse to do it and stations on that line are unstaffed...

 

[TUC]

There is clearly still room for improvement. Disabled passengers who book assistance are entitled to expect that the assistance will appear at the right time and in the right place.

Agreed and despite my above rant many good examples exist with again VT, Norther and Scotrail generally good and LM deserving of praise with short notice/unbooked assists/delays/altered journey plans etc. The areas for major improvement, other than the problems and atitudes mentioned above are the quality of info given to travelers and training for staff.

For an example of the former on my last lads holiday to Blackpool we observed a wheelchair board the TPE 185 from Waverley which like us changed at Preston. The passenger was traveling on towards Polton but the opperater who had made the booking clearly wasnt aware that Transpenine wernt the soul opperater on that line and, yess, you guessed it, in pulls a bus seat 142! Q angry passenger and a taxi, the next guaranteed accessible unit being some time away! The lady in question had been told that only TPE worked this line, meaning the chances of anything other than a 185 dropping on it were remote!

An example of the latter is that very few opperaters seam aware that if you have a guide dog, it is possible, subject to availabilitty to book an entire table of 4 so you and dog can be accommodated with dog under the table. Manys the time me and the wife have ended up on tipup seats in the disabled area, denying travel to wheelchairs and in many cases not cumfortable.anyway enough winging from me, I just hope things improve and am happy to help them do so!

TPE always offer to book two adjacent seats for my wife and her guide dog-not, I hasten to add, for the dog to sit on the seat but rather to create floor space for him. Four seats would be excessive though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unfortunately, what happens too often with unbooked / short notice advice, is that a station will help a disabled passenger on board the train, then try and phone the station they are travelling to, to let them know they are coming. Then, when they cannot get hold of them, phone Control and expect them to sort it out.......

Northern Rail seem to operate their whole assistance system on the basis of just ringing ahead once the passenger is on the train, even when the passenger has pre booked the assistance. Quite why they can't operate a proper organised system like most other TOCs is beyond me, but this is Northern Rail we're talking about ...

 

[EssexGonzo]

I've witnessed a wheelchair a few times on GA in the rush hour and the staff and system seem great, even when the train is packed.

They put them in the front carriage of a 321 where the fold away seats are, make sure they're holding some paperwork and regularly ask around that end of the carriage if anyone's getting off at the same station as the disabled passenger. They'll then cheerfully ask if one of them could mention the wheelchair to a member of staff "just in case the person at the other end hasn't had my email, phone call and booking form"!

There's invariably someone with a ramp waiting at the right door of the right carriage to sort things out. Once when there wasn't, two passenengers with the consent of the wheelchair user, lifted it onto the platform just as the member of staff was running across with the ramp.

I'm sure it's not always like this but it is nice to see the effort that quite rightly goes into helping out.

There's also a blind chap and his dog who commutes into the city from the street next to me. He's totally mobile, knows the route and everyone knows him.

I once got on to the same carriage as him and a group of regular passengers from previous stations clearly always save an aisle seat for him (rush hour from Shenfield is pretty much standing room only) so he can sit down next to his dog, which I thought was nice. I'm sure some would whine "why should he get a seat" but I'm sure the chap in question would choose sight over a seat on the 7.53.

 

[LowLevel]

Providing passenger assistance was simultaneously the best and worst part of my job at a station. I used to love getting to know my regulars and was genuinely sad to move on and leave them. There were some inspirational people, like for example the bloke who totally lost his eyesight to shrapnel in his early teens in WWII and had just got on with it all of his life because 'back then, a lot of people just didn't come back, so I always thought I was lucky' and even in his late 80s was still being independent and going about the local area to meet up with friends and family having worked all his life. I used to go right out of my way to try and make sure everyone was alright (even at one point making a detour to a shop to buy some earphones for a blind lady who had a device that spoke what was on her phone to her but had lost them during the journey while she waited to change trains). I also had a regular chap who used a wheelchair who bought a first class open return to London at least once a week and was so down to earth it was wonderful - on one occasion before I'd even started my shift I was coming down from the shop with my breakfast and found him in the drop off area. He carried my shopping for me while I gave him a boost down to the platform so he could get his train as he was running late and we shook hands on my final shift.

The other side of the coin was when it was busy it was so stressful trying to keep up with everything and everyone's needs as well as doing whatever other jobs I had to do. I could end up helping 40 people in a 7 hour shift which was no joke trying to get them all on the right trains or met appropriately, and if it required more than one person it was a nightmare. This while writing all the details down and phoning them through. I'm a dab hand at pushing a wheelchair while pulling a case at the same time but trying to juggle 3 of them on your own was difficult but if everyone co-operated, staff and people requiring assistance, you generally could manage. This again though was more down to the staffing levels in question rather than being any fault of the people needing help - they just tended to get caught up in the crossfire.

I'm a guard now and if I have a wheelchair user on the train I always make sure I have the ramp available in case the station staff don't turn up.

 

[AngusH]

I guess eventually the train will have a built-in powered ramp like the newer buses do? Which may make life a bit easier...

Does anyone know if this is planned for the next generation of vehicles?

 

[LowLevel]

I doubt it as the platform dimensions still vary significantly. The current in vogue thing seems to be to alter platforms where possible for level access.

 

[infobleep]

It's amazing to think we are of top of league when it comes to the 7 countries with the largest railway networks, yet we still only do well in 80‰ of the cases.

I wonder how bad the other 6 countries are?

I've not seen anyone have major problems from Guildford but where was disruption at one point in the last year and I seem to remember they were trying to help a blind person with their dog. Perhaps they had connections to make or happened to board a different train to the one staff had expected them to be on. Two trains to Waterloo arrived in close together. It can't be easy when trains get delayed. How are staff informed of disabled people missing connections?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[DownSouth]

I doubt it as the platform dimensions still vary significantly. The current in vogue thing seems to be to alter platforms where possible for level access.

If platform dimensions vary, wouldn't that just necessitate the design process including a comparison between GPS locators, ultrasonic sensors, laser sensors and stop-on-contact operation? Shouldn't be hard stuff for a working group of young ambitious engineers so long as they have sufficient security guards to keep bureaucrats at a safe distance.

Continuing to progressively fix up platforms shouldn't be stopped purely on account of automatic ramps becoming available as it is surely a good thing to have platforms at the correct height for everybody whether they use a ramp or not. Routes due to get ramp-equipped trains could have all but the heaviest-used stations shuffled further down the priority list for having the platforms fixed.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

..... Northern Rail seem to operate their whole assistance system on the basis of just ringing ahead once the passenger is on the train, even when the passenger has pre booked the assistance. Quite why they can't operate a proper organised system like most other TOCs is beyond me, but this is Northern Rail we're talking about ...

I have had two instances of 'booked assistance' from the national helpline, The first requested assistance for a train that arrived two hours after staff (myself) were due to finish duty (NRES has information about staffing times) I phoned the assistance helpline who said they would contact the traveller to make alternative arrangements.

The second was a booked wheelchair user, but they didn't fax or email the details, so the first I heard about them was when the origin station phoned along to check I was aware the passenger was coming. I had no problem meeting the train, I knew the guard had access to a ramp to get the passenger onto the platform. What I didn't have was a ramp to get the passenger up the 30+ steps from the platform! So I had to phone control to arrange a taxi from another station, in this case it was one stop further down the line, I had to phone that station to tell them the passenger was coming and I had to meet the train to tell the passenger there was a change of plan.

Now if you want to believe that systems that rely on technology are better than using than the old 'dog and bone', respectfully, I disagree.

 

[sarahj]

Down here on Southern you find most wheelchair uses work on a turn up and go on most services. Quite a few are regulars. If they book in advance, you get it now on your diagramme, but TBH i'd say about 3 out of 5 dont appear on your train. Most times you just put them on and take them off yourself. Some stations that are manned, will get them on, and say I'll phone it through'. But its always good practice to be ready just in case. Today I had a passenger that needed the buggy at Victoria. Departing station said they would phone, but no buggy at Victoria. I called vic help point on arrival and waited with the passenger until it arrived.
Fun and games happen when you have two chairs on, one in coach 2, the other in coach 11. I just assure one that just to be patient, I will get them off. You sometimes get other passengers going 'there is a wheelchair you have forgotten' as I'm hading there. The wheelchair user meanwhile is all calm, knowing that I have told them I will be there, just give me time.

BTW, in the main article there was one user who was told there was no ramp and access to/from the platform, went anyway, then moaned.

 

[gingerheid]

Hmm. That's roughly the percentage success rate my mum gets. She thought it was because she has a hidden disability...

 

[Blindtraveler]

In response to both
TUC
and
Hairyhandedfool
I have to agree with the latter that the phone it through method does in many cases work best! Ok there are some instances where booking helped e.g. The case of the unstaffed station however my earlier point Re Staff training and not looking at the computer at time of booking stands for both examples given. ↲↲↲
Low Level
I wish more staff on stations cared as much, same goes for
Urban Gateline.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Woops just remembered
Low Level
is a guard now, its again refreshing to hear the likes of you and
Sarahj
and any iv doubtless missed, care, as do many others but sadly theres a few what dont!↲

 

[TUC]

..... Northern Rail seem to operate their whole assistance system on the basis of just ringing ahead once the passenger is on the train, even when the passenger has pre booked the assistance. Quite why they can't operate a proper organised system like most other TOCs is beyond me, but this is Northern Rail we're talking about ...

I have had two instances of 'booked assistance' from the national helpline, The first requested assistance for a train that arrived two hours after staff (myself) were due to finish duty (NRES has information about staffing times) I phoned the assistance helpline who said they would contact the traveller to make alternative arrangements.

The second was a booked wheelchair user, but they didn't fax or email the details, so the first I heard about them was when the origin station phoned along to check I was aware the passenger was coming. I had no problem meeting the train, I knew the guard had access to a ramp to get the passenger onto the platform. What I didn't have was a ramp to get the passenger up the 30+ steps from the platform! So I had to phone control to arrange a taxi from another station, in this case it was one stop further down the line, I had to phone that station to tell them the passenger was coming and I had to meet the train to tell the passenger there was a change of plan.

Now if you want to believe that systems that rely on technology are better than using than the old 'dog and bone', respectfully, I disagree.

Part of the problem seems to be that, as I understand it, although the assistance details are loaded onto a national database, the specific details are sent by fax to each station. It would surely be preferable for stations to be able to access the database directly ( in terms of the details of that day's customers) so that they can put the information in the format most useful to them (i.e to be able to list all wheelchair users together and so anticipate when a ramp is needed, produce specific lists for each member of staff in terms of their assistance duties, spot conflicts when several assistance jobs are needed at the same time etc.) What's the point of having a database and not taking advantage of it?

 

[bunnahabhain]

The issue is and always will be communication and human error. When I know I've got a wheelchair onboard for a particular station I write on my job card "WC" as a prompt to remember I need to sort the ramp. What does rather nark me off is when you arrive at a MAJOR station and the booked assistance isn't there. I tend to find that you're more likely to get assistance if you ring through and confirm it direct with the DSM.

 

[thelem]

Wheelchair user Paula Moulton tells 5 live that on one occasion she'd been made aware that a station's platforms weren't accessible via ramp, but decided that she could manage this in her manual chair by careful manoeuvring.

However, a "bizarre surprise" awaited her on arrival. "What they didn't tell us was that there were two flights of stairs and a bridge to get over to the other side.

I don't understand the complaint about inaccurate/incomplete information here. If a station's platforms aren't accessible by ramp/lift, then I would assume there would be two staircases and a bridge/subway to transfer between platforms. Have I misunderstood something?

Regarding the 21% of assistance not turning up, 21% seems high but there's always going to be an element of that with a human-based system, due to messages not getting through etc. Longer term we should be (and are) focusing on increasing the number of stations where assistance isn't even needed.

 

[transmanche]

Longer term we should be (and are) focusing on increasing the number of stations where assistance isn't even needed.

And this means spending money on improving accessibility - despite some people's objections.

I don't have mobility issues, but if i did I'd rather not have to rely on assistance being provided. I'd prefer accessibility to be built in. And with our railway mainly originating in Victorian times, that takes time and money.

 

[scotsman]

I always do what I can for disabled passengers. In the past I've rearranged assistance for them, due to them being booked to change trains at a station where their connection wasn't on the same platform, for one that was.

 

[DownSouth]

Regarding the 21% of assistance not turning up, 21% seems high but there's always going to be an element of that with a human-based system, due to messages not getting through etc. Longer term we should be (and are) focusing on increasing the number of stations where assistance isn't even needed.

I don't think it's appropriate for the system to fail 21% of the time, keeping in mind that people requiring assistance in the first place is already a failure.

Imagine if the majority of people who don't rely on assistance were given equivalent treatment, with 21% of trains arbitrarily running past stations or doors not opening. The mob would be at the gates in no time.

 

[EM2]

TUC - as far as I know, stations can access the database. Or at least my station can, so I can see no reason why others can't.
We extract all the relevant information, transfer it onto a spreadsheet and print that for the staff that are doing assistance.