When is an advance journey using multiple tickets protected against cancellation/late running?

[redcaboose]

I regularly travel between Salisbury & Luton.

Sometimes I will ticket this by purchasing two advance tickets; SWR SAL-WAT & EMR STP-LUT. I use the bus to travel between WAT & STP (I have a bus pass), and always allow a minimum of 90 mins for this connection.

I have to book this as two journeys, but do this at the same time and collect CSST's from a machine, usually well before the journey date. It's done on a single booking reference, paid for in one transaction, and the tickets all come out together.

My question is this: if the first train is delayed to the point that I miss the second, can I then get the next available train, or do I need to buy a new ticket for the second leg?

It's not happened yet, and if it's looking tight, I might just use contactless on the tube to try to save a few minutes, but I'd like to know what I need to do if it did.

 

[Watershed]

I regularly travel between Salisbury & Luton.

Sometimes I will ticket this by purchasing two advance tickets; SWR SAL-WAT & EMR STP-LUT. I use the bus to travel between WAT & STP (I have a bus pass), and always allow a minimum of 90 mins for this connection.

I have to book this as two journeys, but do this at the same time and collect CSST's from a machine, usually well before the journey date. It's done on a single booking reference, paid for in one transaction, and the tickets all come out together.

My question is this: if the first train is delayed to the point that I miss the second, can I then get the next available train, or do I need to buy a new ticket for the second leg?

It's not happened yet, and if it's looking tight, I might just use contactless on the tube to try to save a few minutes, but I'd like to know what I need to do if it did.

I would suggest it's legally ambiguous because for it to count as a single journey, the NRCoT require that:

the train services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.

And obviously you aren't using a train service, or any other mode of transport recognised by industry data feeds or journey planners, when "splitting" at Waterloo or St Pancras.

TrainSplit will, however, offer you the option of making a single booking for your end-to-end journey, with splits such that you pay for the cross London transfer separately.

I would say that if you book such a set of splits through them, you would have a stronger case in the event of a missed connection caused by late-running on the way into London. The fact that a licensed retailer had sold the combination to you would imply that it is regarded as a through journey even if it wouldn't necessarily be the case if you did a "DIY" split.

 

[Adam Williams]

TrainSplit mentions Delay Repay in the documentation for that feature

 

[Haywain]

if it's looking tight, I might just use contactless on the tube to try to save a few minutes,

I think that would be very wise. Using a bus when you had sufficient time to make the connection using the underground could be seen as deliberately delaying yourself.

 

[redcaboose]

And obviously you aren't using a train service, or any other mode of transport recognised by industry data feeds or journey planners, when "splitting" at Waterloo or St Pancras.

What if you're just walking between two stations to make a connection?

Dorchester South - Dorchester West, for example, where there's no other meaningful way of doing it (unless going via Upwey).

Euston - St Pancras is one where I'd walk in all but the most inclement weather. On a nice day, even if I've a Maltese Cross ticket, I'll sometimes choose to walk between Waterloo & Blackfriars, simply because it's a nice walk.

And it's perfectly feasible to walk between Waterloo & St Pancras with a 90 min connection time' though sadly I'm getting a little old for that sort of thing.

I always thought that NRCoT condition was to stop folks using splits on trains just passing through (unless one ticket is a Rover).

 

[Haywain]

Dorchester South - Dorchester West, for example, where there's no other meaningful way of doing it (unless going via Upwey).

There's a fixed link in the industry data based on walking between them. There isn't an equivalent for Waterloo to St Pancras. The same applies for Euston to St Pancras but the tube time is much the same as walking because the tube connections are so far from the NR platforms.

 

[yorkie]

I regularly travel between Salisbury & Luton.

Sometimes I will ticket this by purchasing two advance tickets; SWR SAL-WAT & EMR STP-LUT. I use the bus to travel between WAT & STP (I have a bus pass), and always allow a minimum of 90 mins for this connection.

Taking the bus means it's not officially supported as a through connection, however in practice, if the bus doesn't cause a missed connection, you're fine.

I have to book this as two journeys, but do this at the same time and collect CSST's from a machine, usually well before the journey date. It's done on a single booking reference, paid for in one transaction, and the tickets all come out together.

You absolutely can buy this is a through journey!

Using the forum's ticketing site, go to advanced options and tick the option to use your own cross-London ticketing and also specify additional interchange time at STP (whatever value you add is added to the minimum)

My question is this: if the first train is delayed to the point that I miss the second, can I then get the next available train, or do I need to buy a new ticket for the second leg?

It's not happened yet, and if it's looking tight, I might just use contactless on the tube to try to save a few minutes, but I'd like to know what I need to do if it did.

It is better to get a through itinerary than book separately, but you would still be covered and yes if your first train arrives late, then make sure you take the tube.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 18:28 ==

What if you're just walking between two stations to make a connection?

Dorchester South - Dorchester West, for example, where there's no other meaningful way of doing it (unless going via Upwey).

Please create a new thread if you have a query relating to a journey via Dorchester.

Euston - St Pancras is one where I'd walk in all but the most inclement weather. On a nice day, even if I've a Maltese Cross ticket, I'll sometimes choose to walk between Waterloo & Blackfriars, simply because it's a nice walk.

Where the fixed link is "tube" then if you don't take the tube and do your own thing, the customer is responsible for ensuring that they do not exceed the time that the "tube" was booked to take.

So if you can do a walk within that time, fine, but if you got lost it would be your own risk to take.

You wil only get "walk" fixed links between most NR terminal stations at times when there is deemed to be no "tube" services running, as per the data shown on sites such as brtimes.com

And it's perfectly feasible to walk between Waterloo & St Pancras with a 90 min connection time' though sadly I'm getting a little old for that sort of thing.

I always thought that NRCoT condition was to stop folks using splits on trains just passing through (unless one ticket is a Rover).

I don't understand what you mean by this, but it may be best in a separate thread, to keep this one foussed on the question in the opening post.

 

[Watershed]

What if you're just walking between two stations to make a connection?

Dorchester South - Dorchester West, for example, where there's no other meaningful way of doing it (unless going via Upwey).

Some stations have recognised walking links between them, e.g. these two.

Euston - St Pancras is one where I'd walk in all but the most inclement weather. On a nice day, even if I've a Maltese Cross ticket, I'll sometimes choose to walk between Waterloo & Blackfriars, simply because it's a nice walk.

I agree and I would do the same, but these unfortunately don't have recognised walking links.

That's not to say you can't walk, but if you decide to walk, don't have tickets that cover the "gap", and didn't book it as a through journey using the likes of TrainSplit, then you may encounter difficulties on your onward journey if you miss your connection due to disruption coming into London.

And it's perfectly feasible to walk between Waterloo & St Pancras with a 90 min connection time' though sadly I'm getting a little old for that sort of thing.

I always thought that NRCoT condition was to stop folks using splits on trains just passing through (unless one ticket is a Rover).

That's the main purpose of it, I agree, but if you want to be cautious then it is best to make sure you have dotted the I's and crossed the T's, so to speak.