When First Class Is Standard Class ?

[LM 170]

Which timetabled trains are Standard Class ONLY trains but there is First Class available on board but is conceded as Standard Class ?

 

[Bishopstone]

Southern 'Metro' services operated by class 377, and likewise when they work certain Coastway services*: but always check the timetable to confirm re. your intended train.

*Generally, Brighton to Lewes & to Hove shuttles; to Seaford and to West Worthing are timetabled as Standard only.

 

[All Line Rover]

18:57 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly (which only operates on Thursdays and Fridays). 'Standard Class only' mentioned in the timetable and on departure boards, First Class is reserved throughout with Standard Class ticket holders, and the 'Train Manager' announces before departure that the entire train is Standard Class only.

Almost every First Class seat on that service is taken (just as in Standard Class), some stand and there is no catering, so it is not comparable to ordinary First Class, but there are many 'oohs' and 'aahs' by passengers, with some asking the TM which other services are like this!

 

[LM 170]

Are there any First Great Western services like this ?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Southern 'Metro' services operated by class 377, and likewise when they work certain Coastway services*: but always check the timetable to confirm re. your intended train.

*Generally, Brighton to Lewes & to Hove shuttles; to Seaford and to West Worthing are timetabled as Standard only.

Brighton - Ashford International, worked by two car Class 171s, are also timetabled as standard only.

 

[Class377/5]

Most FCC services around the Wimbledon Loop are standard class even if there is first class provided. The one train that has first class is one Bedford - Sutton train a day.

 

[TEW]

Are there any First Great Western services like this ?

In normal situations I can't think of any no. The only time would be when an HST is used on a service normally worked by a 15x unit, which does happen from time to time, but more so in the Summer.

 

[dvboy]

Which timetabled trains are Standard Class ONLY trains but there is First Class available on board but is conceded as Standard Class ?

None of London Midland's. They don't take the same view as other companies mentioned above.

 

[6Gman]

None of London Midland's. They don't take the same view as other companies mentioned above.

When the Birmingham - Liverpools were 170s it was nice to relax in the Fist Class seats on the Standard Class Only service.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Liverpool St to Cheshunt and to Hertford East too.

However why is it the first and last trains are not declassified?

 

[Temple Meads]

In normal situations I can't think of any no. The only time would be when an HST is used on a service normally worked by a 15x unit, which does happen from time to time, but more so in the Summer.

The 21:31 Paignton - Newton Abbot more often than not has Standard Class locked out of use by the TM, although it is still listed as having first class accommodation in the timetable, so isn't officially declassified .

 

[CNash]

If you're unsure, it's always best to ask the guard (if available) whether 1st has been declassified. They may even thank you for asking before sitting there!

 

[bnm]

Are there any First Great Western services like this ?

Services between Cheltenham and Swindon, with extension to Southampton once a day, have regularly seen the use of a hired in SWT Class 158 which has 1st Class accommodation. Declassified as the timetabled services are Standard Class only.

 

[class303]

Liverpool St to Cheshunt and to Hertford East too.

However why is it the first and last trains are not declassified?

Liverpool st to Chingford and Enfield Town services too are often worked by 317s. There is talk on here that you can be "done" for sitting in 1st class but good luck (in the very rare event of RPI checks on these lines) that they manage to take all 30 people sitting in "1st class"'s details.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Liverpool st to Chingford and Enfield Town services too are often worked by 317s. There is talk on here that you can be "done" for sitting in 1st class but good luck (in the very rare event of RPI checks on these lines) that they manage to take all 30 people sitting in "1st class"'s details.

I thought they were declassified too?

I carry the timetable that shows this, whee is the contention?

 

[Be3G]

First class is unequivocally not provided on trains terminating/originating at Cheshunt or Hertford East as per this webpage:

First Class accommodation is not provided on the London suburban lines to Enfield Town, Cheshunt, Chingford, Hertford East, Gidea Park and Shenfield

The difficulty is that that quote suggests you'd be fine sitting in first class from London to Cheshunt on a Cambridge train, because you'd be travelling on the ‘suburban line to Cheshunt’, but an RPI wouldn't see it that way.

As for first/last trains confusion, it's related to the issue of destinations – e.g. the first southbound train on the Southbury loop on a Saturday started at Cambridge.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In normal situations I can't think of any no. The only time would be when an HST is used on a service normally worked by a 15x unit, which does happen from time to time, but more so in the Summer.

Or when a SWT 158 unit is used instead of a FGW 15x unit.

 

[Deerfold]

First class is unequivocally not provided on trains terminating/originating at Cheshunt or Hertford East as per this webpage:

Which website is that quote from?

 

[Be3G]

Hah, whoops, got confused with my copy-and-pasting. Fixed now.

 

[bb21]

Or when a SWT 158 unit is used instead of a FGW 15x unit.

... whose First Class seats are less comfy than the Standard ones.

 

[VauxhallandI]

First class is unequivocally not provided on trains terminating/originating at Cheshunt or Hertford East as per this webpage:



The difficulty is that that quote suggests you'd be fine sitting in first class from London to Cheshunt on a Cambridge train, because you'd be travelling on the ‘suburban line to Cheshunt’, but an RPI wouldn't see it that way.

As for first/last trains confusion, it's related to the issue of destinations – e.g. the first southbound train on the Southbury loop on a Saturday started at Cambridge.

Oh yes indeed I wouldn't use it on a Cambridge service and rightly so.

Thanks for the tip on the early and late ones, I should have worked that out.

 

[class303]

Just to add to this. Was on an evening Chingford service to Liverpool Street service last night and got RPI checked between Clapton and Hackney Downs. I and about 10 others were sitting in 1st class. Accepted my, and everyone else's (touched in) oyster without question.

The refurbished 317s are actually quite nice in 1st!

317s with declassified 1st can also be found on Romford to Upminster services.

 

[MKD]

First Class seats but service sold as all 2nd = last year the Class 158 trains from Inverness Far North up to Thurso/Wick and across to Kyle of Lochalsh - I produced some seating plans to help as ScotRail regarded them as a state secret - on the Rail Britain site.

 

[redbutton]

My regular commute involves a FCC Orpington-St. Albans service that is timetabled as Standard Only but often arrives with a declassified First cabin.