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When do you give up? Are equal opportunities really equal?

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Reh1988

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I've been trying to get in for about 2 years now. I've had interviews with Cross country and First Great Western. I have been put on hold with FGW as a result.

My problem has been lately any job that I'm really interested in keeps getting withdrawn and I find that more disheartening than someone else getting the position.

However my colleague's father is a train driver. She has had less success than I have.

Either way the nepotism in railway can't be as bad as how it is in my current workplace. The majority of staff here got jobs based on being a family member or friend of someone...
 
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Greenback

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Agree totally, the key is to find a positive, figure out where you went wrong and come back a better positive.

people forget it is actually a rarity to get a job on the railway first, second or even third time of asking........especially the top jobs.

All the jobs that I went for had a lot of interest and therefore a lot of competition. The last one had interviews covering two days in Swansea, there were at least twenty people in the session that I attended. Previous ones were similar from what I could see. Even a pretty senior role had three assessment sessions timetabled with eight people invited to each. Those of us who passed the assessments were then invited to a more formal interview.

I knew I was up against some very good people, but it's still disheartening to fail to get in. I wish I could say that I failed because some of the other applicants were internal or had relations in the company, but that wouldn't be true as far as I could tell.
 

red2005

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All the jobs that I went for had a lot of interest and therefore a lot of competition. The last one had interviews covering two days in Swansea, there were at least twenty people in the session that I attended. Previous ones were similar from what I could see. Even a pretty senior role had three assessment sessions timetabled with eight people invited to each. Those of us who passed the assessments were then invited to a more formal interview.

I knew I was up against some very good people, but it's still disheartening to fail to get in. I wish I could say that I failed because some of the other applicants were internal or had relations in the company, but that wouldn't be true as far as I could tell.


sorry to hear about your misfortune so far mate but you are definitely doing the right thing in persevering!........think of the satisfaction you're going to get when you DO get there knowing you've worked your backside off!

i honestly believe mate that luck plays a huge part in getting a job on the railway! both good and bad!..........yes ability is key but you can have all the ability under the sun but if you take the tests on the wrong day at the wrong time or have the spawn of satan interviewing you on friday when the better person was interviewing on the day prior it can all have an affect! (very mystic meg i know)

when i got my job it was advertised internally 2 weeks after i failed a final interview with Greater Anglia and the email alert popped up whilst i was on a 2 hour PNB. I thought to myself can i take another kick in the teeth after getting so far before and failing at the final hurdle?(the furthest i had got in 7 years of applying)

a colleague who was sat next to me said "you'd be stupid not to" so i filled it in and was literally pressing submit on my ipad as i was walking out the mess room door on route to my next train...........long story short........within 2 months i had the job.....on my doorstep and not having to move to the other side of the country as i would have with Anglia!

keep going mate you WILL get there!
 

Greenback

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Thanks for the encouragement! I do beliebve that luck plays a part in getting any job!
 

red2005

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Thanks for the encouragement! I do beliebve that luck plays a part in getting any job!

you're welcome mate!

I agree that's why people shouldn't take it so personally!......it plays a part in any job let alone job's where anywhere up to 50 plus people apply PER position!

it's not always a conspiracy :)
 

Greenback

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Having worked in recruitment myself, I know how disappointed people can be not to get a job. It's often difficult for them not to take rejection personally. During my periods of unemployment it has been very discouraging not to get anywhere time after time. The worst part of my recruitment job was having to speak to people who had been unsuccessful. The next worst part was defending the recruitment process to those who thought they had been unfairly treated in some way!
 

455driver

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My earlier post might have made it sound much worse than I think it actually is, I have got to be a train driver from square one off my own bat, I knew nobody on the railways when I started out and got here all by myself so it is possible, in fact it's probably more possible now than it has ever been.
 

talltim

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At my workplace, there used to be quite a few company 'families' (at least 20 people related to someone else out of 250ish employees). Now there only 6 I can think of, one pair met at work and married so that probably doesn't count. There are two sisters who job-share, they look very similar, it can be confusing!
 
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red2005

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Having worked in recruitment myself, I know how disappointed people can be not to get a job. It's often difficult for them not to take rejection personally. During my periods of unemployment it has been very discouraging not to get anywhere time after time. The worst part of my recruitment job was having to speak to people who had been unsuccessful. The next worst part was defending the recruitment process to those who thought they had been unfairly treated in some way!

Oh it's never nice to fail!.....you very much question yourself and your abilities etc and it doesn't feel nice.....i had nearly 8 years of it :(

i can't imagine that being a very nice job to have when you have to upset people especially if they were very close but missed out on something minor!

yes i can imagine it being VERY discouraging mate but at least you did something about it! do you do any volunteer work in relation to the railway? or do you work on it in some capacity already?
 

Greenback

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yes i can imagine it being VERY discouraging mate but at least you did something about it! do you do any volunteer work in relation to the railway? or do you work on it in some capacity already?

I used to work for FGW (1998-2001) in the booking office. I left for various reasons, and I don't regret doing so, but whenever I saw a job with ATW that has more money or something that I just thought I'd enjoy more, I had a go!

I can't work at all at the minute because of health reasons, but I hope to get back into some sort of work, maybe even on the railway again, at some point!

Hence the encouragement is especially welcome!
 

red2005

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I used to work for FGW (1998-2001) in the booking office. I left for various reasons, and I don't regret doing so, but whenever I saw a job with ATW that has more money or something that I just thought I'd enjoy more, I had a go!

I can't work at all at the minute because of health reasons, but I hope to get back into some sort of work, maybe even on the railway again, at some point!

Hence the encouragement is especially welcome!

oh right! well that experience will always come in handy eh!

well take your time and get your health right! the railway will always been here and they seem to be recruiting as regular as they ever have done! :)
 

plastictaffy

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Unfortunately, Maps has stopped.
people forget it is actually a rarity to get a job on the railway first, second or even third time of asking........especially the top jobs.

True story. It took me 15 years, applying for, on average, two jobs a year. I've applied for carriage cleaning, on train cleaner, driver, guard, ticket office, catering, the lot. I got this job on my fourth application to my local. I've even lost a job over taking time off to attend railway interviews in the past. When I applied as a guard this time, I had vowed that if I didn't get it, I'd give up. The Domestic Authority begged me not to apply for any more jobs after I'd lost the well paid job because of the interview. I applied for the final time in absolute secrecy - no-one knew!!

OP - you must get the feedback when you've failed and act on it. If they said you hesitated, get some interview practice. If they said your presentation wasn't great, invest in a suit.

You CAN get the job you want - please don't give up!!
 

red2005

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True story. It took me 15 years, applying for, on average, two jobs a year. I've applied for carriage cleaning, on train cleaner, driver, guard, ticket office, catering, the lot. I got this job on my fourth application to my local. I've even lost a job over taking time off to attend railway interviews in the past. When I applied as a guard this time, I had vowed that if I didn't get it, I'd give up. The Domestic Authority begged me not to apply for any more jobs after I'd lost the well paid job because of the interview. I applied for the final time in absolute secrecy - no-one knew!!

OP - you must get the feedback when you've failed and act on it. If they said you hesitated, get some interview practice. If they said your presentation wasn't great, invest in a suit.

You CAN get the job you want - please don't give up!!

absolutely spot on!

if you don't get feedback and just keep going back time after time without knowing where your weaknesses are you are your own worst enemy in my opinion.

there really are fine margins between success and failure within the railway recruitment process so it's vital you give yourself any edge you can.

If you fail there is a reason for it,you might not agree with it but what does that matter? the opinion of the candidate is of very little relevance through the process it is theirs that counts.........if your car failed an M.O.T you'd want to know what it failed on so you could fix it.......you wouldn't keep sending it back without knowing the fault just so it could fail over and over again costing you a fortune each time.......this is no different.
 
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Berries

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I read a few of these posts earlier on in the thread. These are my experiences:

I was once passed over for an internal candidate in the rail company I applied to. The candidate had been groomed for the position for months. While my experience is phenomenal in so many key areas, I couldn't compete with this internal candidate's actual experience in the rail industry. My job was to convince two of the most senior members of that company, that I was the best person for the job, and I failed to do that. I remember the moment when their body language changed, and I remember the answer I gave to elicit that response. My mistake, my personality and my poor response.

I was however, invited back to apply for a more junior role, which I applied for, and got to the very last stage. Again, I failed to convince the jury that I was the best person for the job. While I had a great deal of transferable skills, I still wasn't the best person for the job.

Through every stage, I was given a fair chance. I passed most of the stages, where I outstripped many internal candidates, but I didn't make the grade at the last stage. I am not bitter, I just wasn't the best for that particular job, and possibly not the right fit for that company, despite wanting to be...more than anything else in the world.

I applied to three more companies. Their HR processes were all a very similar experience. The way the tests, assessments and interviews were structured, I very much doubt that anyone would risk their careers or reputations to further the ambitions of nepotism.

In my opinion, a great deal of money goes into the recruitment process, to hire the best person for the job. The competition is such, that the hiring anything less than the best, just doesn't make business or career sense. The underlying structure doesn't seem to have much allowance for the level of objectivity, that would risk HR's lifelong career in a well-regarded, highly-competitive industry.

The reason I say this, is because I have worked in an industry where quid pro quo is absolutely rife. By comparison, the rail industry is on the opposite end of the scale. There are other things I have noticed:

The safety critical aspect is absolutely, well and truly foremost in mind. There's no messing about with safety. If you cannot convince your interviewers 100% that you have a safety critical mindset, then you are not worth the risk to them.

Time is another huge factor. If you can't do the job to a very high standard, with a great deal of speed, then you are also not worth the risk to an industry that pays heavy penalties for lateness, and as a result, ticket reimbursements. If you cannot, for example, get the perfect wording to a public sign change in under a minute, then every second you dither, has huge implications for the public, and the company haemorrhaging money as you take the time to learn new skills.

This is my opinion, based on my experiences over the last few months. I take a great deal of inspiration from one of our members, who through sheer tenacity, has recently landed a job in the rail industry, after great effort and determination.

Never give up!
 

falcon

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The examples of nepotism are getting fewer and further between. At least where I am, in NR, there is a concerted effort to eliminate it. There certainly hasn't been any in our recent hiring.

I entered NR as an external candidate, with zero connections. I have a good CV, a good cover letter, and I perform well in interview. I'm also good at what I do. That has got me this far and will allow me to advance.

People complaining about opportunities not being equal smacks of sour grapes to me in the majority (I'm not saying nepotism never happens, but it always will in all industries).

2 Pieces of advice:

If you lack the skills and experience, go out and get them. Get relevant jobs or qualifications. Volunteer.

If you have all the prerequisites, and struggle to communicate them, learn how.

I think it is as simple as that. If you can't do either of those two things, then you're relying on luck. And in this job environment, you'll need a lot of it.

Mind you can get your head through the doorway on the way out!
 

red2005

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Mind you can get your head through the doorway on the way out!

If you've got no confidence in yourself or your abilities there's no point in showing up for a railway interview.

If you walk round thinking you're better than everyone else they'd see that a mile off and you'd get nowhere , but they do want to see that you have made the effort, are forthcoming and are confident in your own ability like tomboyd is.

From what I've seen there are very few people that are shy, reserved and show low self confidence that get through the recruitment process. It's a fine line
 
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455driver

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From what I've seen there are very few people that are shy, reserved and show low self confidence that get through the recruitment process.

I managed to get through despite being all those things! ;)
 

GingerRH

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Well turns out you should never give up. Received a call today from SWT HR informing me of my success of the interview I had 4 weeks ago, I have my medical on Tuesday and a start date of November 9th.
May have taken me over a year of applying and getting knocked back, but the best roads have the toughest gates, and now I can see the start on the horizon. Just hope the medical goes well, I don't drink or take drugs and think I'm healthy so should be fine.

Sorry for the lack of responses in the thread, my laptop is off being repaired and is taking longer than expected.
 
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