When did train codes cease to be displayed on trains?

[Ash Bridge]

I remember that in January 1976 and at the time wondered why all trains were displaying 0O00. Shortly after the class 52 Westerns used to display the loco number instead of 0O00 and also class 50s, minus one of the zeros in the number. Although with the 50s I’m not sure how long this continued as I remember by the summer of 1976 was the first time I saw a 50 with the display plated over with two lights replacing the headcode.

Yes exactly. It was a bit different for us back then without the modern media we take for granted nowadays and it wasn’t until my next copy of the Railway Magazine was purchased that I learned what was actually going on. I understood about the 52s but what you mentioned about the 50s I never knew, interesting!

 

[nw1]

Sorry for the late reply but I've just found this photo of a 309 in 1981 on Wikipedia:

British Rail Class 309 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Seems to show that reporting codes were still being displayed by the ER into the 80s, suggesting they continued with the practice many years after it had been generally discontinued. I did suspect this after seeing (undated) photos of ER units showing codes in a 1982 Ian Allan 'Multiple Units' book, as stated above.

 

[Mojo]

GWR still displays route code nowadays in front of the train, like 03 for Reading - Redhill / Gatwick Airport and 51 for Cardiff - Portsmouth.

Similarly as do Chiltern.

AIUI these are more like the Southern Region two digit codes, in that rather than to act as a headcode to identify a service, they instead refer to the destination (and stopping pattern?) of said service.

 

[nw1]

Similarly as do Chiltern.

AIUI these are more like the Southern Region two digit codes, in that rather than to act as a headcode to identify a service, they instead refer to the destination (and stopping pattern?) of said service.

Yes, that's true, they are more like the SR route codes. I was unaware they were still being used TBH, though I do remember them from early days of Turbo operation.

Notable 51 is being used for Cardiff-Portsmouth. If they wanted to be properly old-school, they could choose 89.

 

[Class800]

Similarly as do Chiltern.

AIUI these are more like the Southern Region two digit codes, in that rather than to act as a headcode to identify a service, they instead refer to the destination (and stopping pattern?) of said service.

Yes that's what it is - and I say lots of those route and stopping pattern identifier numbers on Southeastern growing up and can still reel the numbers off to this day!

 

[miklcct]

Yes that's what it is - and I say lots of those route and stopping pattern identifier numbers on Southeastern growing up and can still reel the numbers off to this day!

It will be much more user friendly if we can resuscitate these codes, make them nationwide, and show on system maps, making the National Rail network map feel like a larger version of tube map. Then we can refer the routes to e.g. TL 12, etc (which are actually used internally anyway) like taking buses and coaches.

Both National Rail and tubes are commuter trains. The experience taking them should be the same as well.

 

[Class800]

It will be much more user friendly if we can resuscitate these codes, make them nationwide, and show on system maps, making the National Rail network map feel like a larger version of tube map. Then we can refer the routes to e.g. TL 12, etc (which are actually used internally anyway) like taking buses and coaches.

Both National Rail and tubes are commuter trains. The experience taking them should be the same as well.

Although we are unlikely to have such a rail educated population that we could announce just "Platform 1 for the UP 14.30 route 80 service" - we'd have to say the train to London Charing Cross via Greenwich - which to me sort of defeats the point of the route codes. I learnt all the SE metro route ones and many of the SE country ones. I'd know if I was on the correct train just from UP/DOWN and route code

 

[swt_passenger]

It will be much more user friendly if we can resuscitate these codes, make them nationwide, and show on system maps, making the National Rail network map feel like a larger version of tube map. Then we can refer the routes to e.g. TL 12, etc (which are actually used internally anyway) like taking buses and coaches.

Both National Rail and tubes are commuter trains. The experience taking them should be the same as well.

This has been suggested numerous times.

But back then they didn’t have the ability to put changing words on the side displays, so route codes were overcoming a problem of their time. There’s no likelihood of them coming back generally.

 

[nw1]

It will be much more user friendly if we can resuscitate these codes, make them nationwide, and show on system maps, making the National Rail network map feel like a larger version of tube map. Then we can refer the routes to e.g. TL 12, etc (which are actually used internally anyway) like taking buses and coaches.

Both National Rail and tubes are commuter trains. The experience taking them should be the same as well.

It would definitely be nice to relive my childhood and youth and see them back. I'd imagine for instance that 377s could easily display them, and there might be space on Desiros on the 'side of train' indicators.

But to be honest there are things from my younger, and not-so-younger (up to 2019), past days I'd like back first, such as a proper full timetable and a peak!

 

[Class800]

This has been suggested numerous times.

But back then they didn’t have the ability to put changing words on the side displays, so route codes were overcoming a problem of their time. There’s no likelihood of them coming back generally.

The removal of route codes has led to me boarding the wrong train 4 times - so the problem is not just 'of their time' - but sadly I agree they aren't coming back. Reintroducing them would probably cut revenue

 

[joncombe]

It would definitely be nice to relive my childhood and youth and see them back. I'd imagine for instance that 377s could easily display them, and there might be space on Desiros on the 'side of train' indicators.

But to be honest there are things from my younger, and not-so-younger (up to 2019), past days I'd like back first, such as a proper full timetable and a peak!

At least in the early days of the Desiros some guards did used to set the side display to show the 2 digit headcode and destination. I have a photo of one somewhere. I think they had to override it to some sort of manual mode to do it however. The practice fairly quickly died away, whether due to management not approving or simply lack ok knowledge of the codes, perhaps by new staff members, not sure. I haven't seen it for a long time now.

Frankly these codes would still be useful. For example a train showing Guildford might be going via Epsom, Cobham, Woking etc and be fast or slow, and if you just get to the platform in time at somewhere like Clapham Junction determining that from the fixed display on the train rather than waiting for the PIS to scroll can be the difference between getting it or missing it.

 

[nw1]

The removal of route codes has led to me boarding the wrong train 4 times - so the problem is not just 'of their time' - but sadly I agree they aren't coming back. Reintroducing them would probably cut revenue

Not sure it would cut revenue but I guess they think that they are not of benefit to enough people to make it worthwhile. However on some of the more complex suburban networks with many route variations, such as the Southern or South Eastern networks in particular, I can see they may be of significant benefit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2022 ==

At least in the early days of the Desiros some guards did used to set the side display to show the 2 digit headcode. I have a photo of one somewhere. I think they had to override it to some sort of manual mode to do it however. The practice fairly quickly died away, whether due to management not approving or simply lack ok knowledge of the codes, perhaps by new staff members, not sure. I haven't seen it for a long time now.

Frankly these codes would still be useful. For example a train showing Guildford might be going via Epsom, Cobham, Woking etc and be fast or slow, and if you just get to the platform in time at somewhere like Clapham Junction determining that from the fixed display on the train rather than waiting for the PIS to scroll can be the difference between getting it or missing it.

Yeah, true, it's easy to know your 75 from your 42. In many ways they are like bus route numbers.

 

[Class800]

Not sure it would cut revenue

It would cut penalty fares and route excesses

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, true, it's easy to know your 75 from your 42. In many ways they are like bus route numbers.

Most Takt countries now use that sort of metro style numbering. To be fair, though, none of the UK metro systems do, so we are not used to it other than on buses. It only really works properly where you have simple routes and consistent calling patterns, which the WCML does but other lines generally not.

To be fair Virgin Trains did before they lost XC.

 

[miklcct]

To be fair, though, none of the UK metro systems do

They have even been abolished on London Trams, which were previously numbered!

 

[nw1]

Most Takt countries now use that sort of metro style numbering. To be fair, though, none of the UK metro systems do, so we are not used to it other than on buses. It only really works properly where you have simple routes and consistent calling patterns, which the WCML does but other lines generally not.

To be fair Virgin Trains did before they lost XC.

Maybe, though the calling patterns are fairly consistent (certainly off-peak) but with some peak variations, and you can certainly glean some things from them. For example if you are at Clapham Junction you can be pretty sure that a 71-74 will take you to Guildford and Haslemere, an 81-84 will take you to Portsmouth Harbour, or a 63 or 93 will take you to Farnborough and Fleet. You can be fairly sure an 82 will call at Farncombe, Liphook and Liss, while an 81 will not.

Admittedly more fine-tuning could have taken place (some 81s stop at Godalming, some do not; some 72s terminate at Haslemere, some at Portsmouth and Southsea) but I'd imagine the problem was they only had 109 possible combinations (1-99, plus 00-09) so not enough space to cover everything to fine-grained detail. Three-digit headcodes?

 

[D1537]

40162 retained working headcode panels until its withdrawal in December 1982, which were occasionally used, although the one at No.2 end fell into some disrepair towards the end.

Photo from May 82, headcode is correct.

40162 Blackpool North

2P64 1315 ex Manchester Victoria 'Popex' Monday 31st May 1982 ....

www.flickr.com

 

[AzureOtsu]

When I was at Paddington a class 345 was displaying its headcode on the PIS located on the side of the carriage next to the destination. I can't remember what it was but it was the full 4 didget headcode.