When did queuing in turn cease in the UK?

[Ivor]

I use public transport a fair bit in London & Sussex but particularly in London & for a number of years now the queuing system at a bus stop is non existent. No consideration is given by the majority towards fellow travellers re age, gender, disability etc when boarding. A free for all sounds a bit dramatic but you’ll get my drift.

I’m a born & bred Londoner & lived there 60 years although the last 10 years in Sussex which in bigger towns as Brighton, Worthing etc can also not be great although you have to wait for passengers to exit before boarding. I’m not saying it never happened back in the day but it was rare not to join a queue at the back.

London buses nowadays passengers leave by one door & we join the bus by another which should make it smooth even though when there is only about a dozen getting on a half empty double decker bus there is still queue jumping & sometimes quite robust.

The underground which is constantly busy & sometimes manic as doors open has never been great. Trains also but again these modes of transport it’s a case of wait on the platform & head for the closest door.

My post was prompted as yesterday at Clapham Junction waiting for the bus with about 15 people as the ‘rush’ to the door started a young guy of about 25 said to me “go ahead mate you were before me” maybe he could see I’m now an ‘oldie’ but anyway I was pleasantly surprised.

Mind you even queuing or lack of at busy take aways can have similar issues & I’m sure at other areas of business.

My mini rant is over but I wonder in your neck of the woods if it’s the same scenario? I’ve used bus as the worst example but posted here as I’m sure there are many other instances outside of public transport.

 

[Iskra]

I think it's a London thing, rather than a UK thing. Order and decorum prevail up here still. I think there is an ever increasing cultural gap between London and the rest of the UK.

 

[birchesgreen]

Not sure about that, the queue behaviour has been like that in Brum for decades.

 

[Haywain]

My post was prompted as yesterday at Clapham Junction waiting for the bus with about 15 people as the ‘rush’ to the door started a young guy of about 25 said to me “go ahead mate you were before me”

I find this sort of thing happens all the time. However, the other side of the coin is that I have noticed the recent emergence of queueing at bars in pubs and, for me, that really goes against the grain.

 

[75A]

I find the bigger the place, the bigger the general ignorance of everything to do with manners is.

 

[87electric]

Slightly off topic, but queuing in pubs to be served. Bartenders frustrate many people by not noticing the order of the “queue”. In America, the bartenders are on it correctly, and that all comes down to wanting to be tipped.
No arguments, the bartender is always spot on.

My pet hate concerning rail queues is the muppets that won’t let passengers off the train first.
All comes down to manners which seem to be disappearing rapidly in this “me me me first“ nasty culture.

 

[birchesgreen]

My pet hate concerning rail queues is the muppets that won’t let passengers off the train first.
All comes down to manners which seem to be disappearing rapidly in this “me me me first“ nasty culture.

Its sheer stupidity isn't it, in such a rush to get on the train they won't actually let other people off first.

 

[Haywain]

Bartenders frustrate many people by not noticing the order of the “queue”.

In my experience (on both sides) they generally do the best they can. And sometimes customers help by being honest about who is next.

 

[prod_pep]

People don't queue for the bus as such throughout much of Merseyside and haven't for many a year, except in Southport where it is still common. There is at least a degree of decorum on Merseyside, however, with the less able generally let on first.

My pet hate concerning rail queues is the muppets that won’t let passengers off the train first.
All comes down to manners which seem to be disappearing rapidly in this “me me me first“ nasty culture.

Absolutely; I can't stand this, and it happens ever more frequently.

 

[Ivor]

However, the other side of the coin is that I have noticed the recent emergence of queueing at bars in pubs and, for me, that really goes against the grain.

Yep & the longer the wait to be served the thirstier we get don’t you find?

My pet hate concerning rail queues is the muppets that won’t let passengers off the train first.
All comes down to manners which seem to be disappearing rapidly in this “me me me first“ nasty culture.

I think you’ve summed up today’s society.

Another pet hate of mine is opening a door in shops for a ‘lady’ without so much as a thank you (not all I should say) yet fellas in the main seem to acknowledge, with that said it’s not everyone with bad manners sometimes I’m pleasantly surprised.

Think I’ve hit the age now where I’m entitled to have a moan about the human race when I want

 

[yorkie]

I use public transport a fair bit in London & Sussex but particularly in London & for a number of years now the queuing system at a bus stop is non existent.

How would one queue when at a stop served by multiple bus routes?

No consideration is given by the majority towards fellow travellers re age, gender, disability etc when boarding. A free for all sounds a bit dramatic but you’ll get my drift.

Again, how would you do this? Is there a particular pecking order you'd propose for those groups?

Also people matching a particular demographic who may be seen by some as being worthy of being given 'priority boarding' by others may not necessarily want others to treat them differently for that reason.

There isn't any easy answer to any of this, and any answers will be very much subjective.

 

[Ivor]

How would one queue when at a stop served by multiple bus routes?

Again, how would you do this? Is there a particular pecking order you'd propose for those groups?

Also people matching a particular demographic who may be seen by some as being worthy of being given 'priority boarding' by others may not necessarily want others to treat them differently for that reason.

There isn't any easy answer to any of this, and any answers will be very much subjective.

Bus stop of multiple routes:
One queue will be the case & people step out of the queue to board their particular bus as always has happened.

Pecking order:
No pecking order other than passengers common sense as examples…. the older frail person let them board sooner rather than later or the visually impaired person same would apply.

 

[GusB]

I generally find that most people are polite and wait their turn, but you're always going to find someone who demonstrates a lack of manners. At the bus stop I'll usually stand back and let those who arrived before me board first. Having said that, sometimes the bus will stop a bit further back (if there's a vehicle parked at the stop, for example) and it's quicker to just get on and head to the back while others are shuffling towards the door.

When I've worked in bars I've always tried to make a mental note of who was there first and I'll nod to someone to acknowledge that I've seen them, but again you're always going to get the MeMeMe types who don't care. My instinct is to ignore them and make them wait their turn but, unfortunately, they're the ones who will complain loudly so it's better just to serve them and get them out of the way.

Now, when those same people push in and then turn to their mates to ask what everyone is drinking, that's when I start to get irritated. The annoyance dial goes up to 10 when the last drink they order is a pint of Guinness!

 

[Segedunum]

In Newcastle its extremely variable. The queue is religiously followed for my local routes out of Haymarket and St Mary's Place, despite four routes serving one stop at the latter.

Meanwhile, the bus stops for some Stagecoach routes to the west end turn into a confused clump and everyone just seems to do whatever.

London I've been borderline shoved by people trying to get on a bus before me. As far as I've observed, queueing just doesn't happen.

 

[dangie]

In Austria a few years ago I witnessed a party of Japanese (I think) politely letting others onto the bus. The bus was rammed full. They never got on ☹️

 

[route101]

Edinburgh was a place where people queued for buses at the stops. Not sure if this still happens but there it didn't really happen in Glasgow.

I have been to a few places abroad where people shove in and skip queues- , seems to be the way!

 

[Hadders]

Worst place I've ever seen for lack of queueing is the Manchester Metrolink. I've had to physically push people out of the way who were trying to barge on as I was exiting a very busy tram.

 

[Strathclyder]

Edinburgh was a place where people queued for buses at the stops. Not sure if this still happens but there it didn't really happen in Glasgow.

In my experience, queing seems to be the order of the day in Clydebank, particularly at Clydebank and Singer stations where many bus routes use the same stop and where buses often stack up/arrive all at once. Many a time I've let and been let on ahead by other folk.

 

[DC1989]

Slightly off topic, but queuing in pubs to be served. Bartenders frustrate many people by not noticing the order of the “queue”. In America, the bartenders are on it correctly, and that all comes down to wanting to be tipped.
No arguments, the bartender is always spot on.

This is a real pet peeve of mine! Especially when you've been waiting for ages and then the barman looks and you and the guy that's just that second turned up and says "Who's next?" - You tell us!!!

 

[The exile]

Edinburgh was a place where people queued for buses at the stops. Not sure if this still happens but there it didn't really happen in Glasgow.

I remember the Edinburgh extension of the principle at shelterless bus-stops in the rain. Everyone would find shelter in shop doorways etc but knew exactly what the order of the queue was when the bus arrived. With middle exit doors and exact fare only, boarding was then usually a very quick affair!

 

[75A]

This is a real pet peeve of mine! Especially when you've been waiting for ages and then the barman looks and you and the guy that's just that second turned up and says "Who's next?" - You tell us!!!

There's where I have the advantage in being 6 foot 7, a look is usually enough to discourage the newcomer.

 

[The exile]

I use public transport a fair bit in London & Sussex but particularly in London & for a number of years now the queuing system at a bus stop is non existent. No consideration is given by the majority towards fellow travellers re age, gender, disability etc when boarding. A free for all sounds a bit dramatic but you’ll get my drift.

I’m a born & bred Londoner & lived there 60 years although the last 10 years in Sussex which in bigger towns as Brighton, Worthing etc can also not be great although you have to wait for passengers to exit before boarding. I’m not saying it never happened back in the day but it was rare not to join a queue at the back.

London buses nowadays passengers leave by one door & we join the bus by another which should make it smooth even though when there is only about a dozen getting on a half empty double decker bus there is still queue jumping & sometimes quite robust.

The underground which is constantly busy & sometimes manic as doors open has never been great. Trains also but again these modes of transport it’s a case of wait on the platform & head for the closest door.

My post was prompted as yesterday at Clapham Junction waiting for the bus with about 15 people as the ‘rush’ to the door started a young guy of about 25 said to me “go ahead mate you were before me” maybe he could see I’m now an ‘oldie’ but anyway I was pleasantly surprised.

Mind you even queuing or lack of at busy take aways can have similar issues & I’m sure at other areas of business.

My mini rant is over but I wonder in your neck of the woods if it’s the same scenario? I’ve used bus as the worst example but posted here as I’m sure there are many other instances outside of public transport.

Currently standing at a bus stop which on itself causes the problem. Seats under a shelter about 3 yards away - so where’s the queue supposed to start?

 

[Ivor]

Currently standing at a bus stop which on itself causes the problem. Seats under a shelter about 3 yards away - so where’s the queue supposed to start?

When I’ve been at a stop where there’s a bench seat I believe many have a mental note of who was there on arrival but with that said to many it doesn’t matter a jot as even if they turn up when people are boarding they go straight to the door & on.

Looking at responses it looks like a ‘London thing’ in the main albeit decades ago queuing did work.

 

[dk1]

It didn’t. We are British. I see orderly queues in my local Wetherspoonat breakfast. So satisfying to witness.

 

[Bayum]

London is awful for it. I appreciated
that at many stops, there may be more than one bus route calling but even in Leeds we take note of who is queuing and making sure that whoever was in the queue first, joins that bus first. I could be stood holding onto the bus stop in London and still be pushed past for boarding. Never seen it anywhere else.

 

[Springs Branch]

Slightly off topic, but queuing in pubs to be served. Bartenders frustrate many people by not noticing the order of the “queue”
. . . . All comes down to manners which seem to be disappearing rapidly in this “me me me first“ nasty culture.

In my experience (on both sides) they generally do the best they can. And sometimes customers help by being honest about who is next.

My first experience of the breakdown of social order was in the "good old days" of the late 1970s.

I was making a cross-London rail journey, final destination Cambridge, which involved taking a weekday PM peak train out of Liverpool Street.

I arrived at Liverpool Street with enough time for a sneaky pint in a nearby pub before the train was due.

Being used to the system "oop north" - whereby you might not always get served at a busy bar in precise order, but it wouldn't be too far off your turn - I was totally unprepared for the competitive bear pit of a crowded City pub just after 5pm.

I was dressed in pin-stripe suit and tie, so wasn't obviously a misfit, but the pub was like one of those old-school trading floors at the Stock Exchange, Metals Exchange etc. Blokes in suits (only men in there) were bellowing orders at the bar staff, elbowing into you, waving a £5 note over your shoulder etc. A real case of survival of the strongest & no attempt by bar staff to serve anyone in any sort of order. The meek may well inherit the Earth, but they would never get a drink in a City of London pub in rush hour.

After many minutes of getting nowhere, I left the pub drinkless. I think I bought a can of McEwans on the station to drink in the relative calm of the rush hour train.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I use public transport a fair bit in London & Sussex but particularly in London & for a number of years now the queuing system at a bus stop is non existent. No consideration is given by the majority towards fellow travellers re age, gender, disability etc when boarding. A free for all sounds a bit dramatic but you’ll get my drift.

I broadly agree with what you've said, but honestly a "free for all" certainly is the case in some areas of London. Try boarding the 112 at Ealing Broadway in the evening for instance - not helped by the fact it's a single decker and of course everyone wants a seat, but you will quite literally be shoved out of the way.

Outside of London, I'll usually tend to let those who are older or disabled, or those who were already at the bus stop, board first where feasible. Sometimes, if the bus stops a bit further down and I'm the closest to the door, then I'll board first - particularly if the bus is already late - as it's just more convenient for everyone.

Although I have received abuse for doing this in Manchester when the bus rolled up a good 20 minutes late and it would've simply wasted more time to let those who were already at the bus stop walk all the way up to the door, whereas I could've boarded and paid before they had even reached the door...

 

[ChrisC]

London is awful for it. I appreciated
that at many stops, there may be more than one bus route calling but even in Leeds we take note of who is queuing and making sure that whoever was in the queue first, joins that bus first. I could be stood holding onto the bus stop in London and still be pushed past for boarding. Never seen it anywhere else.

Yes, I think just crowding onto a bus without queuing is definitely mostly a London thing. If you did that in many other parts of the country you would very soon be spoken to by other passengers quite harshly. Even in the village where I live, although people don’t queue, but stand in a group around the bus shelter usually chatting, once the bus arrives people board in the order that they arrived at the bus stop. I was in London a few weeks ago and found it very strange, and to me bad manners, to be able to arrive at a bus stop and get on before people who may have been waiting some time.

 

[Busaholic]

Re buses in London, traditionally i.e. before opo became the norm:-

1) Where many bus routes traversed a particular street there were more stops than usually exist now, there being so much less 'street furniture' getting in the way of such things. The downside for the less abled was that you might have to choose which stop to stand at should you have a choice of route to your destination.

2)Stops that served many routes had instructions as to which side you queued, so you had tywo queues in effect.

3) The conductor on the arriving bus had the responsibility of managing how many, and who, got on their bus, and their word was gospel. Longserving clippies were particularly adept at this, and often had their husband as driver in the unlikely event of trouble. Other people in the queue would verbally turn on attempted queuejumpers and shame them, a scenario that today would only lead to trouble.

4) The introduction of the bendybus on Central London routes around the turn of the century with boarding at all three doors and a driver who had no responsibility for collecting fares was the beginning of the end to 'civilised' boarding and continued when Boris Johnson replaced them with the so-called New Routemaster, again with three entrance/exits.

These factors, plus the 'anonymity' of London meaning there'll be totally different people waiting at some stops from day to day suggest to me why London might now be an outlier, rather than the norm.

 

[Ivor]

The conductor on the arriving bus had the responsibility of managing how many, and who, got on their bus, and their word was gospel. Longserving clippies were particularly adept at this, and often had their husband as driver in the unlikely event of trouble. Other people in the queue would verbally turn on attempted queuejumpers and shame them, a scenario that today would only lead to trouble.

Oh those were the days, I remember it well, well done for bringing that back to mind for us old enough to remember