when can I get my pre-court settlement letter?

[Lucy99]

I took train from Olton to Birmingham today and didn't buy the ticket. When I arrived and realized I didn't buy it, I opened my trainline and was going to buy it as need ticket to go barries, but I met the ticket inspector. Since I never met this situation before, as well as just esperienced a fraud case recently, so anexity about my personal information. When he asked me where did I travel from, I gave him a wrong place. After I realised he was the real ticket inspector, I quickly bought the 2 different tickets online which are both anytime day single (one is from the wrong place to birmingham, one is from Olton to Birmingham which is the real one), but he was unpolited the whole time. As he kept saying he would take me to the police and I was lying to him, so we were arguing a lot. "Finally" the police came, the ticket inspector even said "you were in trouble, because the police already knew my name!". I am so anxiety now, he got all my details I don't mind to pay any pentaly as I haven't bought the ticket before my journal(just 2 pounds tho), but will I be in trouble as police got my name and will I get any criminal record? Thanks in advance!

 

[spag23]

Welcome to the forum.
As other members will undoubtedly confirm, everyone must buy a ticket before boarding a train, unless there are no facilities at your starting point to do so. It is too late trying to buy one (or two!) at your destination when you realise there's a barrier to go through.
You haven't told us whether there were no such purchasing facilities at Olton. And if so, why you could not buy one online before boarding.
Your initial assessment of the ticket inspector as somehow being "unreal" perhaps needs explaining.
And you haven't explained why you then bought an online ticket from the "wrong" place before buying a ticket from the "real" place. Did you select the wrong place by mistake?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You haven't told us whether there were no such purchasing facilities at Olton. And if so, why you could not buy one online before boarding.

Olton station (next station towards Birmingham Moor Street / Birmingham Snow Hill after Solihull) is a West Midlands Railways managed station and I understand has a ticket office which is advertised by WMR as being open 0800-2000 on Saturdays. Also apparently has a ticket machine.

 

[185143]

Where was this "wrong place" you said you travelled from?

If you said Dorridge, for example, that would likely be looked on more favourably than if you'd said Solihull.

 

[Lucy99]

Where was this "wrong place" you said you travelled from?

If you said Dorridge, for example, that would likely be looked on more favourably than if you'd said Solihull.

Hi, I said Small Health, just quickly said it was Small Health without any consideration.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Small Heath is usually the last station inbound to Birmingham Moor Street / Birmingham Snow Hill, when travelling in from Olton.

 

[Lucy99]

Welcome to the forum.
As other members will undoubtedly confirm, everyone must buy a ticket before boarding a train, unless there are no facilities at your starting point to do so. It is too late trying to buy one (or two!) at your destination when you realise there's a barrier to go through.
You haven't told us whether there were no such purchasing facilities at Olton. And if so, why you could not buy one online before boarding.
Your initial assessment of the ticket inspector as somehow being "unreal" perhaps needs explaining.
And you haven't explained why you then bought an online ticket from the "wrong" place before buying a ticket from the "real" place. Did you select the wrong place by mistake?

Hello, I forgot to buy the ticket as I thought I have already bought it online in the morning, but didn't pay sucessfully
I bought 2 tickets because I thought he could let me go easily in this way, as I have already said I was from 'Small Health'. I bought ticket from Small Health at first, and bought ticket from Olton in 1 min.
The ticket inspector said I would explain the situation to others later, I am not sure how to explain this clearly. It was my mistake to travel without valid ticket and I don't mind to pay any fine, just too worried about others

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2022 ==

Small Heath is usually the last station inbound to Birmingham Moor Street / Birmingham Snow Hill, when travelling in from Olton.

yeah, just this station came to my mind firstly, so I quickly said this station. He didn't wear the bright vest as the staff in the station, so I was worried that he wasn't the real one, especially when he asked my address. I thought if he was the real one, he would charge fines in person rather than writing down my information, and I just met the fraud situation on Friday, the man tried to use my information to transfer my money from bank.

 

[AlterEgo]

The sum total of what’s happened is as follows:

- didn’t buy a ticket
- lied about where you travelled from, the closest station to Moor Street, with clear intent to evade the fare
- the police were called after an argument (do you say you are known to the police or did you mistype that? It’s not clear.)

It all looks rather bad.

It may therefore take some time for you to hear from West Midlands Trains, who, as a matter of course, will look at your online purchasing history to see how often you have purchased tickets from Small Heath or other very close stations.

The non-sequitur about “some man tried to transfer money from my bank” should be left to one side. That has nothing to do with the situation at the station, or your decision to avoid paying for the fare, or your decision to lie about your origin station. There is no good reason why you would think a uniformed member of staff working on the barrier line was somehow not authorised to deal with your fare evasion, so I advise you leave this line of defence out of any discussions with WMT.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It's a bit difficult to understand exactly what has happened from your opening post. That said you must purhcase a ticket before boarding the train, if you do not do this you commit a criminal offence. There are a few exceptions such as if there is no ticket machine or open ticket office at the station where you start your journey but Olton station has a ticket office and a ticket machine so it is unlikely that you would be unable to purchase a ticket before boarding the train.

In terms of next stspes you are likely to receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. The letter can take up to six months to arrive but 4-6 weeks is more likely. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you lied about where you had started your journey, and there also seems to have been an altercation resulting in the police being called. These make it less likely, although not impossible, that the train company will want to offer an out of court settlement.

Feel free to post a copies of the letter you receive in this thread (with personal detauls redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Lucy99]

The sum total of what’s happened is as follows:

- didn’t buy a ticket
- lied about where you travelled from, the closest station to Moor Street, with clear intent to evade the fare
- the police were called after an argument (do you say you are known to the police or did you mistype that? It’s not clear.)

It all looks rather bad.

It may therefore take some time for you to hear from West Midlands Trains, who, as a matter of course, will look at your online purchasing history to see how often you have purchased tickets from Small Heath or other very close stations.

The non-sequitur about “some man tried to transfer money from my bank” should be left to one side. That has nothing to do with the situation at the station, or your decision to avoid paying for the fare, or your decision to lie about your origin station. There is no good reason why you would think a uniformed member of staff working on the barrier line was somehow not authorised to deal with your fare evasion, so I advise you leave this line of defence out of any discussions with WMT.

I checked my online purchasing history, there isn't any purcahsed tickets from Small Health or other very close stations.
The uniformed memeber wasn't on the barrier line, he was just on the stairs.
I called the police, not him, as he asked about my information and I was worried that he wasn't the member. He said the police already knew my name in this situation and I would be in trouble.
Can I contact with West Midlands Trains to explain and get my fine now? I am anxiety that they won't give me any opportunities about pre-court settlement.

 

[Hadders]

Authorised revenue protection staff carry ID. Why didn’t you ask to see this rather than calling the police?

 

[Lucy99]

Authorised revenue protection staff carry ID. Why didn’t you ask to see this rather than calling the police?

Just never met this before and he was unpolite when I was confused why I need to provide my address. (Genuinely I thought he would charge any penalty rather than asking my address, I know it seems so stupid now) He said if I rejected to provide the address he would call the police, and I saw the police near us, so I just went to police and asked why he asked my address.

If I receive any letter from them to explain this matter, should I just say 'I am sorry I didn't buy the ticket in advance and offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter' rather than explaining any details what happened yesterday? Thanks a lot!

 

[Hadders]

If I receive any letter from them to explain this matter, should I just say 'I am sorry I didn't buy the ticket in advance and offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter' rather than explaining any details what happened yesterday? Thanks a lot!

Read the advice I gave in post #9. Keep the reply short and concise.

You’ve no automatic entitlement to a out of court settlement, the train company can (and may well decide to) prosecute you in the magistrates court.

It is a criminal offence not to give your name and address when asked to do so by an authorised member of railway staff so this is a further aggravating factor in your case.

 

[Lucy99]

Read the advice I gave in post #9. Keep the reply short and concise.

You’ve no automatic entitlement to a out of court settlement, the train company can (and may well decide to) prosecute you in the magistrates court.

It is a criminal offence not to give your name and address when asked to do so by an authorised member of railway staff so this is a further aggravating factor in your case.

thanks so much! So what can I do now is waiting for railway reply right? Also, it is more likely to prosecute me in the magistrates court and I will have criminal record? Can I email them with genuine apology now? I gave my address quickly after the police explained the situation, is it still a criminal offence?

 

[185143]

thanks so much! So what can I do now is waiting for railway reply right? Also, it is more likely to prosecute me in the magistrates court and I will have criminal record? Can I email them with genuine apology now? I gave my address quickly after the police explained the situation, is it still a criminal offence?

I'll leave it to others to confirm either way, but essentially you had concerns as to the authenticity of the RPI, summoned the Police over who explained they were legit and immediately complied when you knew they were?

If so, then I'd expect you're probably not guilty of *that* offence, but you've still failed to buy before you boarded and then lied about your origin, specifically giving one much closer to your destination.

 

[Hadders]

thanks so much! So what can I do now is waiting for railway reply right? Also, it is more likely to prosecute me in the magistrates court and I will have criminal record? Can I email them with genuine apology now? I gave my address quickly after the police explained the situation, is it still a criminal offence?

There really isn’t anything you can do now except wait for their letter. There’s no point sending a separate email to the train company at this stage, they are busy enough already without dealing with unsolicited correspondence.

If all we were talking about was boarding a train without a ticket then I would be very confident that you would be offered an out of court settlement.

Unfortunately in your case we’re also talking about claiming you travelled from a different station and failing to give your name and address to a member of staff (resulting in the police being called, albeit by you). Neither of these go in your favour and the train company may well decide that they want to send your case to the magistrates court.

I’m not saying that you won’t be able to get an out of court settlement, just that it will be much more difficult.

If you are found guilty by a court then you will have a criminal record. The criminal record is ‘spent’ after a set length of time, normally a year for this sort of stuff but for some bylaw offences it is spent immediately.

 

[Lucy99]

I'll leave it to others to confirm either way, but essentially you had concerns as to the authenticity of the RPI, summoned the Police over who explained they were legit and immediately complied when you knew they were?

If so, then I'd expect you're probably not guilty of *that* offence, but you've still failed to buy before you boarded and then lied about your origin, specifically giving one much closer to your destination.

Thanks! Yep after the police explained I immediately complied and answered all the questions.

If I am not able to get an out of court settlement, will I wait more than 6 months and get the response by local court directly? Otherwise if they offer me any out of court settlement, can I get reply shortly, 4-6 weeks normally?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks! Yep after the police explained I immediately complied and answered all the questions.

If I am not able to get an out of court settlement, will I wait more than 6 months and get the response by local court directly? Otherwise if they offer me any out of court settlement, can I get reply shortly, 4-6 weeks normally?

The train company will write to you asking for your version of events.

You reply to them and they will either offer you a settlement or tell you they will be sending the case to the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement then you must pay the amount without delay and that will be the end of the matter.

If they send the case to court you will receive a summons from the court giving details of when the case will be heard, and asking if you intend to plead guilty or not guilty.

 

[AlterEgo]

I realised yesterday the OP probably won’t be dealing with WMT but Chiltern as she appears to have it into trouble at the barrier line. This is not good news for her if she wishes to settle, as they ordinarily prosecute for even Bylaw offences.

 

[6Gman]

I realised yesterday the OP probably won’t be dealing with WMT but Chiltern as she appears to have it into trouble at the barrier line. This is not good news for her if she wishes to settle, as they ordinarily prosecute for even Bylaw offences.

I confess to finding the whole sequence of events here confusing. Has the OP actually said where the incident happened? From the reference to stairs I assume Snow Hill?

 

[t_star2001uk]

I confess to finding the whole sequence of events here confusing. Has the OP actually said where the incident happened? From the reference to stairs I assume Snow Hill?

Probably platform 1 at Moor Street...

 

[Hadders]

I realised yesterday the OP probably won’t be dealing with WMT but Chiltern as she appears to have it into trouble at the barrier line. This is not good news for her if she wishes to settle, as they ordinarily prosecute for even Bylaw offences.

That's a good point. If the OP was stopped at Moor Street then it will probably be Chiltern dealing with the case. Chiltern use Transport Investigations Limited and with them it normally takes a couple of letters before they will consider a settlement.

 

[Lucy99]

Hi guys, I finally received this letter and paid £110 already, is it meaning I got out of court and won’t have any criminal records? Thanks

 

[Hadders]

That's a very decent result in the circumstances. Thank you for letting us know.

 

[Lucy99]

That's a very decent result in the circumstances. Thank you for letting us know.

Thanks, do I need to reply anything? Or just paid the amount and all done?

 

[Hadders]

As long as you've paid the amount due as per the instructions in the letter you don't need to do anything else.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's a very decent result in the circumstances. Thank you for letting us know.

Especially if considering the bit in the letter about April 2019 - Aug 2022, which didn’t actually come up initially…

 

[Lucy99]

Especially if considering the bit in the letter about April 2019 - Aug 2022, which didn’t actually come up initially…

Honestly, I also didn’t pick up any record about April 2019- Aug 2022, but anyway is it ok paid the amount and all done right

 

[SuspectUsual]

That's a very good result considering its TIL, but my word that's an atrociously written letter.