Lampshade
Established Member
Stupid decision based on a video only showing half the story 
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Wheelchair passenger not allowed to board
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jimrbrobinson
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What is decidedly fishy to me about this, is that the alleged incident only happened on Saturday evening (21st August 2010), and he's already gone to the press, posted footage on You-Tube, etc. long before the operator have had any sort of reasonable opportunity to receive a complaint and investigate the matter thoroughly. Sorry but looking at the YT footage, there is more to this before the camera started rolling and he's deliberately out for something (thinking compo, maybe?). No other reason to be putting footage out so rapidly other than to get public/media pressure on and sympathy on his side. I see this happening frequently with a very small number of disabled people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder and think the entire planet should revolve around them and them alone.
If I was in the situation my first thought on arriving home would not be "I know I'll write a thread on Digital Spy to drum up ill-feeling against the company" followed by "I know, lets now phone Granada Reports." My first action, after a cuppa, would be to WRITE A LETTER of compaint to the relevant company's head office, which I would post recorded - signed for. I would then await their response. Certainly I wouldn't be whingeing to the press in under 72-hours.
As to the conductor if he's innocent of wrongdoing, let's hope the truth will come out under investigation. Unforetunately, the manner of the complainants way of handling the complaint has virtually forced Northern to remove him from duty pending investigation, partially for his own safety if some of the comments on DS and YT are anything to go by.
If I was in the situation my first thought on arriving home would not be "I know I'll write a thread on Digital Spy to drum up ill-feeling against the company" followed by "I know, lets now phone Granada Reports." My first action, after a cuppa, would be to WRITE A LETTER of compaint to the relevant company's head office, which I would post recorded - signed for. I would then await their response. Certainly I wouldn't be whingeing to the press in under 72-hours.
As to the conductor if he's innocent of wrongdoing, let's hope the truth will come out under investigation. Unforetunately, the manner of the complainants way of handling the complaint has virtually forced Northern to remove him from duty pending investigation, partially for his own safety if some of the comments on DS and YT are anything to go by.
OMGitsDAVE
Member
Quite obviously not the full story.
At the end of the video he mentions "Im quite scared to use the train now..."
If he had followed guidelines and actually warned staff that he would need the ramp, the train guard could have been ready WITH sufficient time for the service to depart on time.
At the end of the video he mentions "Im quite scared to use the train now..."
If he had followed guidelines and actually warned staff that he would need the ramp, the train guard could have been ready WITH sufficient time for the service to depart on time.
asylumxl
Established Member
What about a petition?
moonrakerz
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Whilst totally agreeing that there is a LOT more to this than the TV and Daily Wail show, I do feel that the guard was acting like a grade A pillock and certainly wasn't helping himself in the slightest.
The "don't touch me, that's assault" line sounded very rehearsed - and used before ?.
I was waiting for the "you're only picking on me because............" line, but the whole thing seemed to be too stage-managed even for that !
The "don't touch me, that's assault" line sounded very rehearsed - and used before ?.
I was waiting for the "you're only picking on me because............" line, but the whole thing seemed to be too stage-managed even for that !
the beauty of a boycott is that it requires no actual effort on my part. (although next year's ALR will require some serious re-jigging)
a petition sounds like hard work. but if someone does it, Ill sign it.
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what did the guard do wrong?
He stood his ground and did his job in the face of an abusive, threatening passenger.
OMGitsDAVE
Member
I Quote "Don't touch me, its assault!"
When the guard was actually explaining - thats a very upfront approach. I have a feeling this is a ride for sympathy, right now.
When the guard was actually explaining - thats a very upfront approach. I have a feeling this is a ride for sympathy, right now.
Just viewed the video, and I'm very curious to know what happened beforehand now. Part way through he explains to his male colleague that the gentleman needs to go on the bigger train. Did he explain this to the customer prior to filming?
One thing I can say though is that after he'd continued to film when he'd been asked not to and gibbered on about the First driver being sacked, that would be enough for me to be justified in refusing him travel *at this point*. If somebody can't do as they are told at the station, you can't trust them to do as they are told in an emergency on the train, so there's no way he'd have travelled with me after that. It's also pretty clear that the gentleman concerned was attempting to intimidate the Guard, by continuing to film and by mentioning the bus driver that was sacked. All in all, while I think the Guard could've handled things better (of course, we don't know what was said prior to filming - and if he explained his reasons then, that's enough), the wheelchair user comes out with zero credibility whatsoever now.
One thing I can say though is that after he'd continued to film when he'd been asked not to and gibbered on about the First driver being sacked, that would be enough for me to be justified in refusing him travel *at this point*. If somebody can't do as they are told at the station, you can't trust them to do as they are told in an emergency on the train, so there's no way he'd have travelled with me after that. It's also pretty clear that the gentleman concerned was attempting to intimidate the Guard, by continuing to film and by mentioning the bus driver that was sacked. All in all, while I think the Guard could've handled things better (of course, we don't know what was said prior to filming - and if he explained his reasons then, that's enough), the wheelchair user comes out with zero credibility whatsoever now.
MidnightFlyer
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So people on here feel the TM was doing the correct thing, and the passenger partially was wrong to do what he did (involve the media) so quickly. I do
Geezertronic
Established Member
I am always wary when things like this end up in the media so quickly. I have not been able to view the video yet so I'll reserve any further judgement until I do but from what you all have said, there is a lot of other factors going on to question the given story
That's part of it. Not sure the Guard explained the reasons to the passenger properly either, but I can't believe that some appear to condone the blatant attempt to wind the Guard up by filming him and ranting about the bus driver getting sacked. Not sure anybody comes out of it with much credit to be honest!
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
The Digital Spy thread makes great reading, and the wheelchair user's argument is well and truly picked apart.
Well, by some it is! Of course, there are also those that think the OP can do no wrong!
MidnightFlyer
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Can someone post a link to the Thread (if its in Forum rules), as i cant find it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys 
jimrbrobinson
Member
Link to DS thread here: http://www.digitalspy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333391&page=17 Hope it is ok! 
MidnightFlyer
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Just seen the Daily Mail's article on this - all the reader cooments say sack the guard, it's a disgrace, i hope all involved lose their jobs. God save us. We here know more about the darker corners of why the TM was just doing his job etc, yet DM readers who have no experience or reasoning behind their thoughts think they are right. At least we know what we are talking about 
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Its ok thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Link to DS thread here: http://www.digitalspy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333391&page=17 Hope it is ok!
Its ok thanks
I felt obliged to get involved!! I haven't made any reference to this thread, but did ask the question about the different class of trains as I think this is where we'll eventually find the answer.
My hunch is that he perhaps DID get them to use the ramp at his destination, possibly with the same guard. There may have been a fuss, perhaps as he didn't state clearly where he wanted to get off and caused problems because of the train type and the ramp design (note, he said the station has loads of ramps as if that makes a difference - but am I right in thinking the ramp for this train is unique and kept ON the train?).
This time, he was told he can't do it - perhaps with the guard reminding him about the last time (the poster did mention previous run-ins, although when pushed played it down) and that started an argument. At some point the guard says enough is enough and refuses to talk to him anymore. This is about when the video starts, which pretends that it all started from then onwards.
But, the guard still acts like a prize idiot - especially once he is aware of the fact he's being filmed. That isn't going to help him whatsoever.
Incidentally, First Capital Connect has since phoned me regarding my penalty fare incident, and they asked what I was looking to get out of any investigation. I said I wanted nothing other than an assurance it wouldn't happen again.
Now I think I should have been asking for compensation, while lining up my TV appearances and calling Max Clifford (he'll be along in a minute, no doubt!).
Lampshade
Established Member
Correct
I'm also in that thread on DS (different username, joined years ago) to see how this pans out.
I imagine he knows that the ramp is on the train, so I wonder why he's posted that there were about 20+ at the station, when it's seemingly irrelevant.
What tipped things for me was when I could see he was showing interest in legal action for discrimination and thinking about compensation. He lost almost all respect from me there and then.
He's also been on recently and ignored any comments or questions that would be tough to answer. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he may wish to take some time to answer properly and honestly, but now it seems that he's just trying to quote messages that support him - and give the impression he has complete support.
He is losing support now, especially when he can't say quite clearly that he's used that class of train at Guide Bridge station with a ramp and with no problems.
I think he has to consider that while some media might not do any subsequent follow-up investigations of their own, or make any corrections, I think the BBC may well bring up the issue of different train classes and then get very close to 'solving the puzzle'. I think the train class, and a previous incident, will finally allow the truth to be known.
What tipped things for me was when I could see he was showing interest in legal action for discrimination and thinking about compensation. He lost almost all respect from me there and then.
He's also been on recently and ignored any comments or questions that would be tough to answer. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he may wish to take some time to answer properly and honestly, but now it seems that he's just trying to quote messages that support him - and give the impression he has complete support.
He is losing support now, especially when he can't say quite clearly that he's used that class of train at Guide Bridge station with a ramp and with no problems.
I think he has to consider that while some media might not do any subsequent follow-up investigations of their own, or make any corrections, I think the BBC may well bring up the issue of different train classes and then get very close to 'solving the puzzle'. I think the train class, and a previous incident, will finally allow the truth to be known.
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CarterUSM
Established Member
I'm not really sure about this whole incident . Couldn't the wheelchair user just have got on and alighted at a station close to his destination station whereupon he could have been taxi-ed to it ? ScotRail do this regularly.
Or waited a whole 12 minutes for the next service which was a 323.
CarterUSM
Established Member
I know, but it could've saved the hassle thats now on the go, but perhaps not...........
It says in one of the newspaper reports he got the bus home, why???
MidnightFlyer
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Why didn't he get the bus or a taxi in the first place, and save the embarrasssment he caused himself and the grief he caused the guard, station staff and Northern Rail?
CarterUSM
Established Member
That is what i mean! Sound a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
I suggest (to all) reading the thread on Digital Spy in which he has been answering questions rather than asking them here and being given answers by third parties
What I don't get is the real malicious feeling against the Guard,TOC's and Railways in general from some people on various websites, obviously the Guard could have handled it better but people wanting the guard as ridiculed as possible, the train companies taught a lesson and so on? Where is this coming from?
The video is very one-sided and DOES make the guard look like a t**t. Even though I have my own personal suspicions and hunches, the video is what convinces Joe Public to make a decision without thinking.
It seems that the passenger must be innocent as he's wheelchair bound, while the guard is evil because he works for an evil privatised, fat cat, train operator. So much for equality!
If the passenger had been young, female and cute, it would be shown all over the world now and the guard would probably be under police guard. As it stands, the media still has something valuable to them, and the passenger has confirmed the Daily Mail simply re-wrote the story from the BBC without even speaking to him!
It seems that the passenger must be innocent as he's wheelchair bound, while the guard is evil because he works for an evil privatised, fat cat, train operator. So much for equality!
If the passenger had been young, female and cute, it would be shown all over the world now and the guard would probably be under police guard. As it stands, the media still has something valuable to them, and the passenger has confirmed the Daily Mail simply re-wrote the story from the BBC without even speaking to him!
jimrbrobinson
Member
I think it's similar to the feelings of resentment a lot of the same people have about public sector workers. All the time ill-informed people criticise the pay, benefits, pensions, etc. of all public sector workers based on 30-year-old dogma which is no longer accurate. I wonder how many of these people now taking any opportunity to have a go at guards, TOC's etc actually have ever twigged what privatisation actually meant. Fact is they criticise and berate ANY service industry whether it is private or publicly funded simply because they live in their own little world where they expect everything to always be perfectly how they want it to be, and anything that upsets that image is evil and wrong and must be attacked. Whenever I read the news-based comments pages and forums I often think that many people are against taxpayer-funded services AND against private or 'pay as you use' services in equal measure, though what alternative that would leave is beyond me! Am I making any sense here?? I'm confused. :P
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I see it all the time. Councils wasting money... should sack lazy staff...
Same people then say the council isn't investing enough in local services, aren't spending enough money on having more staff to collect rubbish or whatever.
I think what people want is a council that only serves them, and doesn't waste money on services that they currently don't use. It's why you even see people saying they should get a refund of national insurance if they're not sick.
Same people then say the council isn't investing enough in local services, aren't spending enough money on having more staff to collect rubbish or whatever.
I think what people want is a council that only serves them, and doesn't waste money on services that they currently don't use. It's why you even see people saying they should get a refund of national insurance if they're not sick.
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