Wheel Flats

[Windcutter]

Is there any regulation on the degree of wear in regards to wheel flats on coaching and wagon stock

 

[driver9000]

A total of 60mm is the limit for wheel flats.

 

[captainbigun]

A total of 60mm is the limit for wheel flats.

For passenger carrying vehicles. Fulll details in GMRT2466 @ rgsonline.co.uk

 

[Yew]

Is it more for freight? I've had some go past that really made a thump!

 

[BestWestern]

I once had a call from control while working a unit with flats so bad that a signaller had heard it go by and got on the phone about it! A couple of weeks later and it was still out there. It's not at all uncommon to find plenty of flats knocking about during the slippery season, and they often have to stay that way for a while since there just isn't the flexibility to have them all out being tyre turned as soon as they need it. The passengers sometimes complain about the harsh vibrations in the saloon and the noise in the vestibules, but it's the damage it does to the railhead which is surely most concerning, can't be good when every other wheelset is hammering the hell out of it!

 

[driver9000]

For passenger carrying vehicles. Fulll details in GMRT2466 @ rgsonline.co.uk

The Rulebook (TW5) doesn't differentiate between a passenger or a freight vehicle. I was unaware of the 80mm allowance for freight wagons.

 

[captainbigun]

Biggest set of flats I've seen were on the FL86 that was stopped at MK a couple of years back. On brand new wheelsets too, they were MASSIVE!!

 

[Temple Meads]

I've heard far too many HST's with wheelflats this winter, travelled in a fair few as well

 

[driver9000]

Biggest set of flats I've seen were on the FL86 that was stopped at MK a couple of years back. On brand new wheelsets too, they were MASSIVE!!

I took a 142 out of service with big flats after loooong slide a few years ago. After examining the wheels I decided they were big enough to be a 20mph job and they went with an unpleasant sounding thud.

 

[142094]

There was a consist of preserved locos going to the NYMR a few years back and someone IIRC had left the brakes wound on a 31 - wonder what the wheels looked like after that.

 

[pendolino]

A couple of weeks later and it was still out there. It's not at all uncommon to find plenty of flats knocking about during the slippery season, and they often have to stay that way for a while since there just isn't the flexibility to have them all out being tyre turned as soon as they need it.

I suspect it's more likely that flats won't get rectified (other than at exams that include tyre turning) unless a driver reports them, which, because flats are so common during low adhesion, tends not to happen too often. Basically because fleet won't have a clue they're there unless they're reported by a driver.

 

[millemille]

I suspect it's more likely that flats won't get rectified (other than at exams that include tyre turning) unless a driver reports them, which, because flats are so common during low adhesion, tends not to happen too often. Basically because fleet won't have a clue they're there unless they're reported by a driver.

Rubbish, wheels are subject routine inspection for tread damage as part of level 4 planned maintenance on every piece of rolling stock operated on the infrastructure.

 

[pendolino]

Rubbish, wheels are subject routine inspection for tread damage as part of level 4 planned maintenance on every piece of rolling stock operated on the infrastructure.

Yes, as part of level 4 maintenance. But in between?

 

[millemille]

Yes, as part of level 4 maintenance. But in between?

You said that flats would go unnoticed unless train crew reported them or the wheels were subject to scheduled tyre turning and that "fleet" won't have a clue what state their wheels are in.

No TOC or FOC would be granted a Safety Case if this were the case.

The tread inspection periodicity is based upon many factors, including the inherent reliability of the WSP system.

Whilst drivers do report wheel damage, the vast majority of damage is found on examination or as a result of other faults being identified that prompts the tread to be looked at out of course.

 

[pendolino]

You said that flats would go unnoticed unless train crew reported them or the wheels were subject to scheduled tyre turning and that "fleet" won't have a clue what state their wheels are in.

By 'an exam that includes tyre turning' I was thinking of any occasion when tyres will be inspected, but didn't make that clear, fair enough.

The daily prep in the depot is very unlikely to do pick up a set of flats, as a lot of flats only become apparent at speed. So unless they're reported by a driver or picked up on the next exam that includes tyre inspection it's unlikely that fleet will know about them. I've rung fleet in the past to report bad flats and been thanked for letting them know.

As you said, most flats are only picked up at an exam or if drivers report them - but in my experience very few drivers do, that's precisely the point I was making.

(No idea why you put fleet in inverted commas - maybe it's not a term your TOC uses, but it is for mine)

 

[TGV]

Systems like Mermec pick up wheel defects including flats as the train enters a depot - on every wheelset while it's moving.

 

[millemille]

Systems like Mermec pick up wheel defects including flats as the train enters a depot - on every wheelset while it's moving.

And you've got Wheelchex at various locations on the network measuring rail impact forces.

 

[9K43]

As a long time train preparer, when ever a set of trucks leaves a siding, it must be prepared; eg the shunter/guard/trainman/driver has to ensure that the train is fit to go out onto the railway.
Normally the TP will couple the loco to the vehicles, connect the air pipes, shorten couplings and check for anything untoward on the vehicles.
In conjunction with the driver, the TP will perform a brake test, and check that the last 3 vehicles brakes have applied on the train.
I would then walk upto the driver and give him a signed Tops sheet/drivers slip.
When it was time for the train to depart you stand in a place of safety and watch the train depart. This is called a roll by, and you check no hand brakes are rubbing and the wheels are rotating freely.
On some occasions you encounter train formations with vehicles with wheel flats.
it depends on the severity of damage to the tyres . If the tyres are scaled up, you would shunt the defective vehicle out of the train, if the vehicle has a slight burn on the tyre, you can let it go into service.
Safety in these conditions is paramount.
As a TP you have to stamp the tops sheet with your personal stamp , so when the train leaves your name goes with it.
When you knock a cripple out of a train, you put a green card onto the vehicle with fault of why you have knocked it out. eg bearing running hot.
The details are then wired onto tops, and they will arrange for that vehicle to come out of traffic for the fault to be seen to.
For a TP to let a train into traffic with glaring defects on it, is the passport to getting sacked.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I took a 142 out of service with big flats after loooong slide a few years ago. After examining the wheels I decided they were big enough to be a 20mph job and they went with an unpleasant sounding thud.

I call that walking with a limp.

 

[Crossover]

Only had the one train where I suspect we had a wheel flat. On a 322 on a North Berwick run last year. Sat at the driving end heading to North Berwick there is a constant knocking sound which increased with speed to the point it became less noticeable as we got to line speed. On returning to Waverley on the same unit, we moved to the drivers end again which was completely silent in that respect

 

[Windcutter]

As a long time train preparer, when ever a set of trucks leaves a siding, it must be prepared; eg the shunter/guard/trainman/driver has to ensure that the train is fit to go out onto the railway.
Normally the TP will couple the loco to the vehicles, connect the air pipes, shorten couplings and check for anything untoward on the vehicles.
In conjunction with the driver, the TP will perform a brake test, and check that the last 3 vehicles brakes have applied on the train.
I would then walk upto the driver and give him a signed Tops sheet/drivers slip.
When it was time for the train to depart you stand in a place of safety and watch the train depart. This is called a roll by, and you check no hand brakes are rubbing and the wheels are rotating freely.
On some occasions you encounter train formations with vehicles with wheel flats.
it depends on the severity of damage to the tyres . If the tyres are scaled up, you would shunt the defective vehicle out of the train, if the vehicle has a slight burn on the tyre, you can let it go into service.
Safety in these conditions is paramount.
As a TP you have to stamp the tops sheet with your personal stamp , so when the train leaves your name goes with it.
When you knock a cripple out of a train, you put a green card onto the vehicle with fault of why you have knocked it out.
The details are then wired onto tops, and they will arrange for that vehicle to come out of traffic for the fault to be seen to.
For a TP to let a train into traffic with glaring defects on it, is the passport to getting sacked.



Excellent Explanation, Many thanks

 

[driver9000]

I call that walking with a limp.

Brilliant, I'm going to remember that one

 

[Yew]

That reminds me of the time I thought I could hear a kettle coming into lincoln around xmas, turned out it was a 153 with a flat :/

 

[9K43]

When I first started, I was up at Neville Hill looking at a TTA 45 tone tank waggon, that had been pulled for a very long way with an hanbrake down.
The wheel set had worn so much that the Timken roller bearing had started to melt.
I saw with me own eyes a needle out of the bearing that had nearly melted away, and the Sewedish Steel had turned blue with the heat from the wheel.
The journal ends were just a couple of miles away from melting off.
Also with 45 tons of petrol on board you got some worries on your hands.
Also I had a train in the days of Brake Vans ran hot going through Castleford enroute to the Mill.
With a hot box you can smell the boiling oil in the BV.
Passing Cass Box, I gave the bobby ad red one from me brardic and the Bobby threw the signal on.
I went down to inspect the truck, and it was know cooling down.
The Driver came up and did the only thing we could do, we both had a pee on the wheel as a token jesture.
After that we ran at 5mph the short distance back to the Mill and the smell from the burning oil cooled off, and that was the end of that little saunter.
This would have been in about 1983, and the Driver was called Danny Kaye who had a name of Johnny Opposite, as every thing you said he would turn it round.
He retired in November 1995, with over 45 years service.
You will be lucky now to serve that long in one job.