What's happened to the cheap advances?

[supervc-10]

So now that things are opening up again, I'm travelling more. Since the lifting of restrictions I've been completely unable to get any cheap advance fares. Normally this would be Avanti for Manchester-London, but I'm also planning a trip to Edinburgh at the end of the month and the advance offerings on TPE are only saving a fiver over the regular open return tickets. Normally pre-Covid I'd be able to get reasonably cheap tickets 2 weeks out but it seems like availability is very restricted, and weekends seem to be completely unavailable.

Is this some post-covid way to try to get increased ticket prices? Or reduced the amount sold to prevent overcrowding (despite advance tickets being reserved seating!)? Or have I just been unlucky with my timings?

 

[221129]

So now that things are opening up again, I'm travelling more. Since the lifting of restrictions I've been completely unable to get any cheap advance fares. Normally this would be Avanti for Manchester-London, but I'm also planning a trip to Edinburgh at the end of the month and the advance offerings on TPE are only saving a fiver over the regular open return tickets. Normally pre-Covid I'd be able to get reasonably cheap tickets 2 weeks out but it seems like availability is very restricted, and weekends seem to be completely unavailable.

Is this some post-covid way to try to get increased ticket prices? Or reduced the amount sold to prevent overcrowding (despite advance tickets being reserved seating!)? Or have I just been unlucky with my timings?

These trains are busy. Probably all been sold.

 

[87 027]

Like the OP I have noticed the disappearance of the cheaper advances on the Avanti London-Manchester route more recently. Even the LNWR alternative via Crewe isn't offering prices as low as in the spring. I am sorry to say that I have reverted to using the car for this journey as the timing is comparable (around 4 hours suburb to suburb) as each round trip would now cost me around double by train

 

[realemil]

These trains are busy. Probably all been sold.

Exactly this, everybody wants to travel and get out and about - look a few months in advanced and you'll find bargains.

I found £5 advanced tickets for Queen Street - Aberdeen looking a month in advanced (granted it's a ScotRail and not TPE / AWC service)

 

[Watershed]

Leisure traffic, particularly on mainlines like the WCML and ECML, has picked up massively. In certain areas there is now more demand than before Covid!

So it's no surprise that the cheapest Advances either aren't being released, or are limited in number and therefore snapped up long before the date of travel.

 

[supervc-10]

I'm unsure if they're any busier than they were before the pandemic though. They're a lot busier than they were in, say, May time, but they're no less busy than they were in October 2019.
I'm not expecting the £20 advance fares to be available a week before- but when either there is nothing available or it's only a few pounds cheaper a month in advance, it feels like something has changed!

 

[XAM2175]

I'm unsure if they're any busier than they were before the pandemic though. They're a lot busier than they were in, say, May time, but they're no less busy than they were in October 2019.

On many lines though there are still fewer trains running than there were in October 2019.

 

[Bald Rick]

Avanti are still operating a reduced service, and many of their trains are selling out - even at times of the day / week you might not expect them too. It’s fair to say that the pricing you see reflects what the market is prepared to pay.

The leisure market nationwide is effectively back at pre Covid levels, although this does vary by route around the country.

 

[221129]

They're a lot busier than they were in, say, May time, but they're no less busy than they were in October 2019.

But there are a lot more leisure travelers than there were before.

 

[Haywain]

On many lines though there are still fewer trains running than there were in October 2019.

Yes, LNER and GWR still affected by the cracking problems on the trains, and most others by staffing problems of one sort or another - not just COVID but training backlogs and the like.

 

[SHFTraveller]

I've been keeping an eye on LNER fares, DON-KGX in particular and unless I've missed all of the cheaper advances I haven't been able to find instances of sub £73.50 for any train due to arrive into KGX before 9am Mon-Thu. Pre Pandemic I'm sure £49.50 was generally possible when booking greater than 5 Weeks out.

 

[Starmill]

The thing is that the trains at times that are unpopular with leisure travellers didn't used to be the cheap ones because they used to be able to charge significantly more for them. There's greater caution about lowering those prices thsn there is about raising the prices on previously less high yield trains, so some trains are very expensive and very empty. The trains at the times you're likely looking at for a weekend away will almost certainly genuinely be full, even at much higher rates than before the pandemic.

Manchester to Edinburgh trains can no longer have six or eight coaches as they used to, only five. Manchester to London is still seeing a very significant cut in capacity.

 

[gray1404]

I do wonder to what extent the Book With Confidence scheme has effected availability of cheap advances. In a nut shell, it is possible to book Advances and get them refunded (as an e-voucher) up to 18.00 the day before travel. I wonder if this has caused Advances to be purchased "just in case." As cancellation only needs to be requested the night before travel, this availability is not actually being released back into the system.

 

[Starmill]

Like the OP I have noticed the disappearance of the cheaper advances on the Avanti London-Manchester route more recently. Even the LNWR alternative via Crewe isn't offering prices as low as in the spring. I am sorry to say that I have reverted to using the car for this journey as the timing is comparable (around 4 hours suburb to suburb) as each round trip would now cost me around double by train

The Super Off Peak Return at £35.00 and the Off Peak Return at £45.00 are still available from Manchester to London.

Kidsgrove or Stoke-on-Trent to London is also still available at £30.50 Super Off Peak Return and £43.00 Off Peak Return.

Obviously there were cheaper Advance tickets than that previously, but these aren't too bad.

There's an Off Peak Return from Manchester Airport, Manchester, Bolton and a handful of other places to Edinburgh on Avanti West Coast and Northern Only. This is £64.40 and probably cheaper than getting any Advance tickets.

 

[extendedpaul]

So now that things are opening up again, I'm travelling more. Since the lifting of restrictions I've been completely unable to get any cheap advance fares. Normally this would be Avanti for Manchester-London, but I'm also planning a trip to Edinburgh at the end of the month and the advance offerings on TPE are only saving a fiver over the regular open return tickets. Normally pre-Covid I'd be able to get reasonably cheap tickets 2 weeks out but it seems like availability is very restricted, and weekends seem to be completely unavailable.

Is this some post-covid way to try to get increased ticket prices? Or reduced the amount sold to prevent overcrowding (despite advance tickets being reserved seating!)? Or have I just been unlucky with my timings?

If you're prepared for a longer journey time from Manchester to London there's still a decent saving splitting at Crewe. Using the lowest tier advance tickets on Northern from Manchester to Crewe, and same on West Midlands Railway from Crewe to Euston, the total cost can be under £13.

My next journey with senior railcard from Euston to Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe is costing £8.40 (£6.10 + £2.30)

 

[Andrew1395]

If commuting and business travel fail to get back to pre covid levels, we may see a blurring of peak and off peak. You never know GBR may even result in fewer extremes between very high and very low prices.

 

[Bald Rick]

If commuting and business travel fail to get back to pre covid levels, we may see a blurring of peak and off peak. You never know GBR may even result in fewer extremes between very high and very low prices.

Quite likely in my opinion. Although even now, the peak is busier than off peak on most routes.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Avanti do still have cheap advances, and some are available relatively close to the date of travel. I got Edinburgh to Preston for under £15 four days before I travelled

 

[Starmill]

Avanti do still have cheap advances, and some are available relatively close to the date of travel. I got Edinburgh to Preston for under £15 four days before I travelled

They're definitely more widely available for non-London.

 

[williamn]

The Super Off Peak Return at £35.00 and the Off Peak Return at £45.00 are still available from Manchester to London.

Kidsgrove or Stoke-on-Trent to London is also still available at £30.50 Super Off Peak Return and £43.00 Off Peak Return.

Obviously there were cheaper Advance tickets than that previously, but these aren't too bad.

There's an Off Peak Return from Manchester Airport, Manchester, Bolton and a handful of other places to Edinburgh on Avanti West Coast and Northern Only. This is £64.40 and probably cheaper than getting any Advance tickets.

It's super hard to get a booking engine to show that Super Off Peak return - the only place I found to tell me it existed was Train Split.

Using it today in fact!

 

[Starmill]

It's super hard to get a booking engine to show that Super Off Peak return - the only place I found to tell me it existed was Train Split.

Using it today in fact!

Yes it's really tricky.

If not using trainsplit I ask for the ticket at the ticket office right before boarding. I've had success with this once I mention that I'd like the one that costs £35 return or £45 return as a relevant.

 

[kieron]

It's super hard to get a booking engine to show that Super Off Peak return - the only place I found to tell me it existed was Train Split.

Quite a few web sites provide a way to search for specific tickets, so you shouldn't feel that you have to use any in particular. On tfwrail.wales (as an example), selecting "Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available" takes you to a page where you can select a ticket and have the site look for trains you can use with it.

If you enter a one way journey, it will also let you search for bottom tier advance tickets.

Different web sites do things in different ways, but most of them have some way to find tickets like those ones.

 

[williamn]

Quite a few web sites provide a way to search for specific tickets, so you shouldn't feel that you have to use any in particular. On tfwrail.wales (as an example), selecting "Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available" takes you to a page where you can select a ticket and have the site look for trains you can use with it.

If you enter a one way journey, it will also let you search for bottom tier advance tickets.

Different web sites do things in different ways, but most of them have some way to find tickets like those ones.

Yes I did try this but couldn't get any way for other sites (I tried LNER and London North Western) to show me the ticket. And I'm a relative railway spod, so how on earth is joe public going to find it?

 

[Llandudno]

Yes I did try this but couldn't get any way for other sites (I tried LNER and London North Western) to show me the ticket. And I'm a relative railway spod, so how on earth is joe public going to find it?

Perhaps it’s intentional that they don’t want the general public to find those elusive Advance tickets..!

 

[Wallsendmag]

It certainly isn’t on our part at least, if you go through the NRE site you can specify change points before being handed off to a TOC site to book.

 

[yorkie]

If you're prepared for a longer journey time from Manchester to London there's still a decent saving splitting at Crewe. Using the lowest tier advance tickets on Northern from Manchester to Crewe, and same on West Midlands Railway from Crewe to Euston, the total cost can be under £13.

My next journey with senior railcard from Euston to Manchester Piccadilly via Crewe is costing £8.40 (£6.10 + £2.30)

Trainsplit should generally find these automatically (you may need to select cheap mode); other things that can force it would be to exclude Avanti from the search and/or force a change at Crewe, all of which are possible in the advanced options.

Yes I did try this but couldn't get any way for other sites (I tried LNER and London North Western) to show me the ticket. And I'm a relative railway spod, so how on earth is joe public going to find it?

I think a lot of price-conscious passengers are becoming aware of Trainsplit; I certainly spread the word when I can. It's not just for splitting but also good at finding slower itineraries.

(I think train companies in general feel that people should simply pay the higher price or not travel and have no real interest in growing the market or offering fares to people on a budget as they feel they are already filling many trains nicely and of course they have no real revenue risk any more as taxpayers will always foot the bill. That's a whole new topic in it's own right, though!)

 

[Haywain]

Perhaps it’s intentional that they don’t want the general public to find those elusive Advance tickets..!

I think the problem is more that those who set the fares don’t have sufficient understanding of how booking engines work.

 

[nanstallon]

... (I think train companies in general feel that people should simply pay the higher price or not travel and have no real interest in growing the market or offering fares to people on a budget as they feel they are already filling many trains nicely and of course they have no real revenue risk any more as taxpayers will always foot the bill. That's a whole new topic in it's own right, though!)

Just like the old BR mentality - "I work for the government, I've got a job for life and the public can get stuffed'.

 

[Starmill]

I think the problem is more that those who set the fares don’t have sufficient understanding of how booking engines work.

There's very little doubt there I agree.

 

[RT4038]

(I think train companies in general feel that people should simply pay the higher price or not travel and have no real interest in growing the market or offering fares to people on a budget as they feel they are already filling many trains nicely and of course they have no real revenue risk any more as taxpayers will always foot the bill. That's a whole new topic in it's own right, though!)

There are also people to be found (both in and out of the industry) who believe that having different fares for the same journey (based on when you book and/or when you travel) is manifestly unfair.