What would you sacrifice?

[daodao]

Yep - the Hull to Man Airport can terminate at Victoria in the peaks if needed.

I am opposed to peak hour variations in the routes, as this causes confusion and is disruptive to smooth working.

For example, all Southport and Wigan services should run to Victoria.

 

[HST43257]

I am opposed to peak hour variations in the routes, as this causes confusion and is disruptive to smooth working.

For example, all Southport and Wigan services should run to Victoria.

I was thinking just to fit in with Option C plans

 

[Ianno87]

Given how busy the CrossCountry Class 170's can also be, perhaps have the Cambridge terminators and starters run to and from Audley End and Stansted Airport at peak times?

That was my idea - not running the standard hour service there basically saves one train (for strengthening elsewhere) by turning back at Cambridge; running early/late services only (i.e. everything up to and including the 0721 from Stansted, and starting from the 1822 Birmingham-Stansted in the evening) would just be "marginal time".

That covers the demand for early/late Cambridge-Stansted journeys for early flight departures and late flight arrivals (Greater Anglia providing the interpeak service).

 

[Glenn1969]

Calder Valley

Not actually sure how this route and corridor is best served. We currently do very badly for north-south and express connectivity given how busy some of the stations are but given the infrastructure and the "Bradford reversal penalty" what else can you do

Not sure I would sacrifice anything

 

[TheWalrus]

Split the Bedwyn-Paddington service at Newbury putting on just a 2 car DMU for Newbury-Bedwyns rather than overkill 5-car IETS. Or transfer Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn to the two hourly semi-fast Exeter, although I think Hungerford deserves an hourly service. That’s what I would sacrifice to my local service which I never Use because it’s absolutely no use to me.

 

[GingerSte]

Kidderminster to Birmingham: Post-covid I'd sacrifice one of the 3 trains per hour for a 2 per hour off-peak service but one of those being fast, stopping only at Stourbridge Junction, taking no more than 30 minutes (i.e. back to 1958 timings!) and being a 6 car unit. Better to have fewer but faster trains than frequent slow trains in my opinion.

I also commute (in non-COVID times) on this line, from Rowley Regis instead of Kiddie.

I would be willing to sacrifice some of the off peak (10:00-15:00 and after 19:00) services on this line, in order to allow some single line running, if this allows some engineering access to the lines. One of the things that costs so much is limiting possessions to a few hours per midweek night and Saturday nights.

Less impactful for me, but I would also "sacrifice" some electric services late at night (say after 21:00), and run diesel services, if this means that isolations can be started an hour earlier and more engineering work can be squeezed into possessions.

 

[The Planner]

I'd sacrifice the following - meaning do without...

CrossCountry:

The once regular (for like 10 - 12 years) the services to and from Southampton / Reading - Newcastle.

The services to and from Manchester and Bristol / South West.

Just double up many of the to and from Manchester - Bournemouth trains and the Voyager services to and from Scotland / Newcastle - Bristol / South West.

Also, when 1S51 (12:27 from Plymouth) is booked to arrive at Edinburgh at around 21:10, I'd be terminating it there instead of Glasgow Central. As this used to arrive in Glasgow about 22:20, probably wait for about 25 minutes then arrive back at Craigentinny around midnight, the maintenance team have about 3 extra hours to fix the HST. Therefore, this service can be up to 3 hours late into Edinburgh!

As regards the Manchester trains, that's about an hours layover at Piccadilly.

I'd much rather this CrossCountry timetable that's proving more reliable than the frequent one with too many (some overcrowded) single Voyager trains.

Given how busy the CrossCountry Class 170's can also be, perhaps have the Cambridge terminators and starters run to and from Audley End and Stansted Airport at peak times?

Just double up the Voyagers, there is no point reducing the service to double up the existing services as it isn't going to solve the same amount of people wanting to travel an hour apart instead of half every 30 minutes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2021 ==

I also commute (in non-COVID times) on this line, from Rowley Regis instead of Kiddie.

I would be willing to sacrifice some of the off peak (10:00-15:00 and after 19:00) services on this line, in order to allow some single line running, if this allows some engineering access to the lines. One of the things that costs so much is limiting possessions to a few hours per midweek night and Saturday nights.

Less impactful for me, but I would also "sacrifice" some electric services late at night (say after 21:00), and run diesel services, if this means that isolations can be started an hour earlier and more engineering work can be squeezed into possessions.

SLW is very unlikely, adjacent line open is often considered too risky now. No good running diesel if you need access to the OLE.

 

[Iskra]

Hallam Line- following on from what @tbtc said

I'd tolerate losing one of the Northern semi-fasts, only if the current stopper had the 'Castleford detour' removed. That way you'd free up paths and units per hour but not really damage the overall service too much. You could probably then use one of the saved units to provide a Leeds-Castleford shuttle if desired and still have saved units overall.

However, I don't think slashing the Hallam line services is the best idea considering the service had only just about become decent pre-Covid and it's probably wise to see how quickly the passengers return before making hasty decisions on a line served primarily by 2 car DMU's.

 

[YorksLad12]

Hallam Line- following on from what @tbtc said

I'd tolerate losing one of the Northern semi-fasts, only if the current stopper had the 'Castleford detour' removed. That way you'd free up paths and units per hour but not really damage the overall service too much. You could probably then use one of the saved units to provide a Leeds-Castleford shuttle if desired and still have saved units overall.

However, I don't think slashing the Hallam line services is the best idea considering the service had only just about become decent pre-Covid and it's probably wise to see how quickly the passengers return before making hasty decisions on a line served primarily by 2 car DMU's.

I'd have the two semi-fasts call at Normanton (they slow down to a crawl southbound anyway) and withdraw the stopper north of Kirkgate. But I'm with you on your last para - things seemed to be settling down, operationally, so I could wait until December 2022 or later before making any eye-catching changes.

 

[Glenn1969]

If you withdraw the stopper north of Kirkgate how many tph would you have serve Woodlesford and Castleford?

 

[Iskra]

If you withdraw the stopper north of Kirkgate how many tph would you have serve Woodlesford and Castleford?

And you'd be withdrawing Darton's direct Leeds service, which is popular with commuters M-F and leisure on weekends.* Plus Chapeltown's and Wombwell's, while not the fastest option it can be preferable to stay warm on a train that you have a seat on rather than wait in the cold to change onto a train that could be rammed.

 

[GingerSte]

Just double up the Voyagers, there is no point reducing the service to double up the existing services as it isn't going to solve the same amount of people wanting to travel an hour apart instead of half every 30 minutes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2021 ==


SLW is very unlikely, adjacent line open is often considered too risky now. No good running diesel if you need access to the OLE.

Is it still too risky, even with separation? (I don't know if there is a road-railer type piece of plant which can get separation laid down quickly, like those vehicles that make getting cones on and off of a motorway quicker.)

Agreed, if you need access to the OLE then it is no good running diesel. However, I'm talking about the hour (often longer) between getting a possession and getting the associated isolation. There are also other jobs (eg high works on platforms) where isolation of the wider area and possession of the track adjacent to the platform would be possible.

 

[Metrolink]

The services to and from Manchester and Bristol / South West.

Hmm. I wouldn’t want to see services to South West disappear. I wanted to book a train from Manchester to Barnstaple* for the summer and I know many who have booked holidays to Devon or Cornwall this year. I know the service has been cut due to COVID-19, but I think this service should be re-introduced not sacrificed but that’s just my view.

*the quickest route being via Leeds

 

[YorksLad12]

If you withdraw the stopper north of Kirkgate how many tph would you have serve Woodlesford and Castleford?

Use the path released to run an additional Leeds-Woodlesford-Castleford(-Pontefract-Knottingley) service.

And you'd be withdrawing Darton's direct Leeds service, which is popular with commuters M-F and leisure on weekends.* Plus Chapeltown's and Wombwell's, while not the fastest option it can be preferable to stay warm on a train that you have a seat on rather than wait in the cold to change onto a train that could be rammed.

I think there's enough slack to add in a call at Darton as well as Normanton but not the others.

 

[Halish Railway]

I’d like to see the Harrogate to London go back to 1tpd and replaced with the originally planned 2tph Harrogate to Leeds limited stop service, something that shouldn’t require many more trains.

Up till the first lockdown this was just 1tph due to the reversing Azuma at Harrogate taking up paths.

 

[JamesT]

Hmm. I wouldn’t want to see services to South West disappear. I wanted to book a train from Manchester to Barnstaple* for the summer and I know many who have booked holidays to Devon or Cornwall this year. I know the service has been cut due to COVID-19, but I think this service should be re-introduced not sacrificed but that’s just my view.

*the quickest route being via Leeds

It feels like there should be sufficient alternatives on Birmingham to Manchester (ie Avanti or WMT) that XC could be relieved from running that. If there was decent interchange without excessively clogging up New Street it could still be a reasonable service. Plus might free up some much needed rolling stock for lengthening a few other services.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Does it have to be services ?

We still have an awful lot of manually operated boxes that really should have been removed long ago!

I would love to see a piece of paper with the cost of operating these on some lines alongside a piece of paper with the fare income from that particular line.

BTW I do quite like the old signaling myself so it does pain me to say this, but the reality is we now desperately need to reduce the operating cost!

 

[Greybeard33]

Does it have to be services ?

We still have an awful lot of manually operated boxes that really should have been removed long ago!

I would love to see a piece of paper with the cost of operating these on some lines alongside a piece of paper with the fare income from that particular line.

BTW I do quite like the old signaling myself so it does pain me to say this, but the reality is we now desperately need to reduce the operating cost!

How do you reduce the signaller headcount other than by withdrawing services? As I understand it, all the available engineering resources are fully employed on existing resignalling projects, which have been chosen to give the quickest return on the investment.