What would you do?

[Unknockable]

I went for a trainee position for a TOC that required the enhanced standard. I was unsuccessful however, I got my feedback and I discovered I passed the exams to a National standard only but I failed my situational judgement test completely. So that would mean I have one life left right?

Now would you think it’s better to play it safe by avoiding TOC’s that require the enhanced standard and just wait for national standard TOC’s to advertise jobs?

 

[Liam00086]

How did you fail the SJT? Did they give you any feedback? I didn’t think you could fail it as they just use your answers to base there questions for MMI?

 

[Twotwo]

I was not aware the SJT can be a fail . Can you please elaborate

 

[Unknockable]

How did you fail the SJT? Did they give you any feedback? I didn’t think you could fail it as they just use your answers to base there questions for MMI?

Yeah I failed it, they didn’t give me any specifics on how I did but I did. They just said I will have to retake it next time I go through the assessment process with any other TOC.

 

[GB]

Isn't the SJT the 30 or 40 odd questionnaire that effectively ask the same 6 or 7 questions but phrases them differently? Perhaps the answers given were contradictory or they didn't have the right level of safety in mind?

 

[Stigy]

You can’t fail at the SJT unless they meant you failed the MMI which the responses you gave at the SJT would be used for? The only SJT you can fail, are on initial recruitment shifts as far as I’m aware? Was it the OPC or the TOC specifically who carried out the assessments?

If it’s the OPC, then this once again sounds like inconsistencies on their part. I was told by them that the SJT can’t be failed on its own.

 

[Unknockable]

Isn't the SJT the 30 or 40 odd questionnaire that effectively ask the same 6 or 7 questions but phrases them differently? Perhaps the answers given were contradictory or they didn't have the right level of safety in mind?

Yeah that was it, I felt a lot of the questions were ambiguous and tricky to answer. Their was approx about 40 questions if I recall correctly.

 

[Unknockable]

You can’t fail at the SJT unless they meant you failed the MMI which the responses you gave at the SJT would be used for? The only SJT you can fail, are on initial recruitment shifts as far as I’m aware? Was it the OPC or the TOC specifically who carried out the assessments?

If it’s the OPC, then this once again sounds like inconsistencies on their part. I was told by them that the SJT can’t be failed on its own.

You can’t fail at the SJT unless they meant you failed the MMI which the responses you gave at the SJT would be used for? The only SJT you can fail, are on initial recruitment shifts as far as I’m aware? Was it the OPC or the TOC specifically who carried out the assessments?

If it’s the OPC, then this once again sounds like inconsistencies on their part. I was told by them that the SJT can’t be failed on its own.

That’s strange, that’s exactly what I was told over the phone about my results. If it does help, the TOC I done this with was Arriva, (The vacancy was for the new cross gate depo, I see they are advertising again for trainees as of now)

 

[Spincity]

You can’t fail at the SJT unless they meant you failed the MMI which the responses you gave at the SJT would be used for? The only SJT you can fail, are on initial recruitment shifts as far as I’m aware? Was it the OPC or the TOC specifically who carried out the assessments?

If it’s the OPC, then this once again sounds like inconsistencies on their part. I was told by them that the SJT can’t be failed on its own.

I think the inconsistency isn’t with the OPC...... You’re wrong I’m afraid the SJT is a test, and can be failed. This test isn’t part of the MMI

 

[Stigy]

I think the inconsistency isn’t with the OPC...... You’re wrong I’m afraid the SJT is a test, and can be failed. This test isn’t part of the MMI

There clearly is an inconsistency with the information the OPC give on a number of items, this being one. I was quite directly told that you CANNOT fail the SJT as it was carried out in conjunction with the MMI. This makes sense, as the idea behind the SJT/E is that it’s a questionnaire used to aid the interviewer as part of the MMI.

A lot of TOCs also do these as part of the initial application process, which can be ‘failed’ (I use that term loosely) as if you don’t answer what they want you too, your application won’t be progressed.

 

[Spincity]

There clearly is an inconsistency with the information the OPC give on a number of items, this being one. I was quite directly told that you CANNOT fail the SJT as it was carried out in conjunction with the MMI. This makes sense, as the idea behind the SJT/E is that it’s a questionnaire used to aid the interviewer as part of the MMI.

A lot of TOCs also do these as part of the initial application process, which can be ‘failed’ (I use that term loosely) as if you don’t answer what they want you too, your application won’t be progressed.

Sorry you’re wrong. The SJT is a test the SJE is different and part of the MMI. Feel free to search the forums on here.

 

[Stigy]

Sorry you’re wrong. The SJT is a test the SJE is different and part of the MMI. Feel free to search the forums on here.

The SJT/E are the same thing with different names. I’ve done several of each. The difference comes depending on at which stage the test/exercise was taken, as I said in my post. This sounds as though it was taken as part of the psychometric assessments process rather than the initial recruitment stage which was what I was basing my info on, as I said in my previous post. If it was part of the psychometric process, then the only time it would have been taken was prior to the MMI, because as I believe you said yourself, it’s not part of the psychometric assessments alone. I think if nothing else, we need clarification as to what stage the test/exercise was taken. I’ve been a member at this forum long enough to not need to be advised to carry out a forum search. Cheers though

 

[Spincity]

The SJT/E are the same thing with different names. I’ve done several of each. The difference comes depending on at which stage the test/exercise was taken, as I said in my post. This sounds as though it was taken as part of the psychometric assessments process rather than the initial recruitment stage which was what I was basing my info on, as I said in my previous post. If it was part of the psychometric process, then the only time it would have been taken was prior to the MMI, because as I believe you said yourself, it’s not part of the psychometric assessments alone. I think if nothing else, we need clarification as to what stage the test/exercise was taken. I’ve been a member at this forum long enough to not need to be advised to carry out a forum search. Cheers though

I’ll politely end the exchange as I have a different opinion than you and as I’ve not been on the forum that long and my experience in sitting the process is not as extensive I don’t want to muddy the water with incorrect information. But to get my head right, both the SJT and SJE are the same thing so are only used as part of the MMI, so why would you have to sit the same test twice in the same process.

 

[Stigy]

I’ll politely end the exchange as I have a different opinion than you and as I’ve not been on the forum that long and my experience in sitting the process is not as extensive I don’t want to muddy the water with incorrect information. But to get my head right, both the SJT and SJE are the same thing so are only used as part of the MMI, so why would you have to sit the same test twice in the same process.

No, TOCs/FOCs use SJT/E at different intervals, but there’s always one which is used in conjunction with the MMI. It’s a personality questionnaire really, and as such there’s not really a right or wrong answer to the questions (hence why the possible answers are so similar). For example, SWR do an SJT/E when you apply (or used to). This could mean that you’ll fall at the first hurdle if your answers don’t match up to what they are looking for. For the benefit of the MMI, your answers are not used to pass or fail you, but will dictate the line of questioning the OPC assessor will use (hence how you won’t fail it on this aspect alone). Companies use these questionnaires for numerous different reasons, but these are generally the two reasons TOCs/FOCs use them.

 

[Spincity]

No, TOCs/FOCs use SJT/E at different intervals, but there’s always one which is used in conjunction with the MMI. It’s a personality questionnaire really, and as such there’s not really a right or wrong answer to the questions (hence why the possible answers are so similar). For example, SWR do an SJT/E when you apply (or used to). This could mean that you’ll fall at the first hurdle if your answers don’t match up to what they are looking for. For the benefit of the MMI, your answers are not used to pass or fail you, but will dictate the line of questioning the OPC assessor will use (hence how you won’t fail it on this aspect alone). Companies use these questionnaires for numerous different reasons, but these are generally the two reasons TOCs/FOCs use them.

Ok, so going to the original post and checking the job advert, http://www.arrivaraillondon.co.uk/page/trainee-driver-faqs, he was informed he failed at SJT. Which is an ARL requirement to pass to go to stage 2, so the feedback he got back from the OPC was correct then, although you’re saying in the early post you can’t fail the SJT as its used for the MMI, from the link the SJE and MMI are linked and the SJT is a pass/fail test. So in my simplistic view, SJT is a pass/fail test and nothing linking to the MMI which uses the SJE, with no pass/fail with the SJE.

 

[Stigy]

Ok, so going to the original post and checking the job advert, http://www.arrivaraillondon.co.uk/page/trainee-driver-faqs, he was informed he failed at SJT. Which is an ARL requirement to pass to go to stage 2, so the feedback he got back from the OPC was correct then, although you’re saying in the early post you can’t fail the SJT as its used for the MMI, from the link the SJE and MMI are linked and the SJT is a pass/fail test. So in my simplistic view, SJT is a pass/fail test and nothing linking to the MMI which uses the SJE, with no pass/fail with the SJE.

From looking at the link you provided, and looking at the stage two exercises too, it looks like ARL integrate the VSE with the other psychometric tests (the VSE being the visual search exercise you complete at home). The VSE as a whole, does contain its own SJT. From how I’m reading it, it looks like ARL do the SJT with the stage one tests and the VSE with the stage two tests. They call it “bespoke” which indicates only they do it this way....which it would appear they do.

The VSE and SJT in that respect is a pass/fail, in the same way the initial SJT some TOCs use is. The fact remains though that it’s generally not part of the psychometric assessments. The inconsistencies I mentioned earlier? One of them is the OPC and saying that the VSE, I’d failed, counts towards one of your lives. Truth be told I I don’t think anybody has had a definitive answer to be honest. I would say it can’t count, as it is a test done at home, and thus not necessarily under exam conditions and could be completed by anybody? If the VSE and SJT is done under the same conditions as the psychometric assessments (stage one and two), then yes, I guess it could count.

I’ve never known a company to carry out the VSE and SJT under the same conditions as the psychometric assessments though. Also worth noting that these tests are ONLY part of the enhanced standard, along with the DFFT (Driver Fault Finding Test), therefore don’t count towards the standard pass, irrespective of if the OPC say they count towards one of your two live or not.