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What would you do?
- Thread starter laseandre
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Follow the instruction of on train staff - evacuate safely and quietly if told to.
To provide reassurance to other distressed passengers, and try to calm any hysteria.
First Aid really doesn't come into it, because most people will be trapped and moving them makes it worse. Fluid loss can be stemmed but not replaced, crush injuries are hard to manage outside hospital, and CPR is unlikely to be needed, due to the injuries sustained.
In case of fire, to help to free and remove as many casualties as possible to a safe area where they can be laid awaiting triage by the ambulance staff.
To provide reassurance to other distressed passengers, and try to calm any hysteria.
First Aid really doesn't come into it, because most people will be trapped and moving them makes it worse. Fluid loss can be stemmed but not replaced, crush injuries are hard to manage outside hospital, and CPR is unlikely to be needed, due to the injuries sustained.
In case of fire, to help to free and remove as many casualties as possible to a safe area where they can be laid awaiting triage by the ambulance staff.
AlexS
Established Member
Offer assistance to the traincrew if required as a 'railway official' by means of being a duty station master/trainee guard.
rulebook states you do that anyway whatever your role doesn't it
Basically remain calm and on board the train; don't try and get off or move because you could upset someone who's seriously hurt in the process or, possibly, even hurt yourself. Only move when someone comes and make your presence heard; that way they are aware that you are alive, breathing and are not in need of emergency resuscitation. (it's the quiet ones they look out for!)
When free and clear, I'd only offer help if you've had some sort of first aid training and are able to cope in a stressful situation. Whilst the First Aid isn't really crucial as such, I'd imagine it'd come in handy to know not to move people without the help of a professional. If they decline any help (which they probably will for safety reasons, unless you're a doctor or something), just accept the answer and stay clear of the train to allow them to get on with their work. Don't get in their way.
This isn't a guide or anything. I've never been involved in a rail accident of any sort, I'm just using common sense, and some advice I've heard over the years. There probably is a manual for train crew "what to do in an emergency", and hopefully they'll follow that giude to the letter when something does go wrong.
adambro
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My plan would always to be on the train before the one involved in an emergency. Failing that, phone The Sun and enquire how much they'll pay for a bunch of nonsense quotes along the lines of "I thought we were all going to die" and "I saw my life flash before my eyes".
Nym
Established Member
Call the arts council for a grant, the wreckage could be sold as modern art, with red accentuations
AlexS
Established Member
Ah yes, but I'm a volunteer, so it's up to them whether they take me up on the offer, although I work to the same rulebook as the mainline railway so I am required, apparently, to at least offer assistance if capable.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Sorry to put a dampener on this, but if you are involved in an emergency don't start acting out plans.
Stay put. Stay calm and do as you are told. If you are a member of the emergency services, rail staff or are trained in first aid, make yourself known to the traincrew and follow their instructions. Otherwise, sit tight and wait.
One thing I will say is not to pull the cord the moment you discover a fire on the train or a medical emergency. Alert the traincrew but don't pull the cord unless the train is already in a platform. Having to stop and investigate a pulled alarm between stations wastes time. Just move yourself and others out of immediate danger (into neighbouring vehicles, for example) or take action to safeguard the casualty if possible.
one TN
Stay put. Stay calm and do as you are told. If you are a member of the emergency services, rail staff or are trained in first aid, make yourself known to the traincrew and follow their instructions. Otherwise, sit tight and wait.
One thing I will say is not to pull the cord the moment you discover a fire on the train or a medical emergency. Alert the traincrew but don't pull the cord unless the train is already in a platform. Having to stop and investigate a pulled alarm between stations wastes time. Just move yourself and others out of immediate danger (into neighbouring vehicles, for example) or take action to safeguard the casualty if possible.
one TN
I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree with this. Think about it - if it's a fire then it's an emergency. The quickest way to alert staff to the situation is to pull the emergency chord, it's what it's there for. You wouldn't just move away from a fire in a building, you'd activate the fire alarms.
Nym
Established Member
if you're on a new one the emergency call is seperate to the emergency stops now
comes in handy
91101
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Max, right clever that would be....train is on fire...in the depths of the Severn Tunnel! You wouldn't want the train to stop there, nor would the crew, much safer to get out of the tunnel first, while pax make their way to other vehicles.
if you're on a new one the emergency call is seperate to the emergency stops now
Ah yes, that is useful. I'm just thinking of the mk1 stock on the NYMR where I volunteer. If (god forbid) there was a fire, I hope that somebody would pull the chord!
O L Leigh
Established Member
If you pull the cord, the chances are you stop the train. Not all trains have a passenger alarm override facility that allow you to talk to the driver. If the train stops between stations it's much harder to effect a quick and safe evacuation and to tackle the fire itself. Likewise if it's a medical emergency. Stopping the train in a station rather than between them means that medical aid can be provided much more quickly.
one TN
one TN
When did the original person ever mention the Severn Tunnel?
Surely moving down the train to find staff would only delay the situation and put more people at risk? In a normal situation (ie not in a tunnel), surely getting the train to a complete stand as soon as possible is the main priority, so that people can evacuate?
And to One TN...surely protecting human life is the most important thing? If it's 20 minutes to the next station you can't just carry on with the train becoming a blazing inferno - it's suicide!
Since when has it ever said only pull the chord in stations?
O L Leigh
Established Member
Don't be daft. Of course I'm not suggesting that.
What I'm trying to say is that if you discover a fire or medical emergency onboard the train, don't just tug the cord. Alert the traincrew. Let them decide what course of action to take, starting with choosing where the best place is to stop the train.
There are other convenient locations where you could stop the train if you are still a way from the next available station (e.g. access points such as crossings). Equally, there are places you just wouldn't want to get stopped by a punter dumping the brake, such as up on a viaduct or in a tunnel. Getting pulled up in the wrong place can be disasterous because it can delay getting help and assistance to the train, make an evacuation difficult or even totally impractical and endanger the lives of all onboard further.
Additionally, a quick evacuation is not necessarily the best course of action. If it's a fairly minor fire that can be quickly dealt with, having dozens of punters running around on the PWay or jumping down indescriminately because they have decided for themselves that this is the best course of action will only compound matters further.
I will say it again. Safeguard yourself if possible. Alert the traincrew to the emergency and let them decide what the appropriate course of action is. Stay onboard and do as you are told.
one TN
Ah I see, that would make more sense. But I'm sure pulling the chord in between stations in the event of a fire would be the best advice.
Not quite on the same scale, but something similar happened to me last time I was travelling back from Manchester. Coming out of one of the tunnels someone decided it'd be a good idea to drop a brick (or something) onto the train which resulted in a smashed window. Rather than pulling the cord I went and alerted the guard who had a look and discovered that it was only the outer pane that'd had been smashed. He in turn had a word with the driver (and possibly control) who decided it'd be ok to continue to Leeds where a fitter would have a proper look. The fitter in turn decided the train was ok to carry onto York where they could arrange a replacement unit. Upon arrival at York the replacement unit was waiting in the opposite platform and we transferred over and continued on our journey. The end result was a minimal delay (around 5 minutes IIRC) rather that an emergency stop and a longer delay with possible knock on effects later in the journey.
If there was a fire onboard the train would you realistically go looking for staff?
O L Leigh
Established Member
As a driver, I would prefer that you did.
If you pulled my cord and brought my train to a stand miles from the nearest access point and then proceeded to decamp to the lineside of your own volition, I would have my workload tripled and something that could be a minor incident and quickly tackled escalate into a full-scale emergency requiring trains to be stopped and possibly traction current isolated.
one TN
If you pulled my cord and brought my train to a stand miles from the nearest access point and then proceeded to decamp to the lineside of your own volition, I would have my workload tripled and something that could be a minor incident and quickly tackled escalate into a full-scale emergency requiring trains to be stopped and possibly traction current isolated.
one TN
adambro
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It's very difficult to realistically plan what one would do in such a situation but if I see fire then my first thought will be to move away rather than stop the train. However, I understood that drivers weren't meant to stop, even after an alarm, if it was an unsafe position, i.e. on a bridge, in a tunnel, the whole idea of having an override. Is this not available on all trains?
O L Leigh
Established Member
No, and that's the route of my concerns.
None of the stock I drive has the facility to override the passenger alarm. If you pull the cord you dump the brake and the train stops wherever it stops. To get the thing moving again I have to come back in the train, find the alarm(s) that have been operated and reset them. I could bypass this in the cab if things were really very desperate indeed to get underway, but I still wouldn't know how bad things might be without first going back.
This is why the passenger alarm override and emergency intercom is a real bonus. It allows the passengers to quickly contact the driver to explain the situation, which in turn gives the driver the chance to assess the situation and choose the appropriate course of action. If you've got that on a train then fine, tug away. However, if there is any doubt in your mind about this then stop and think whether this really is the most appropriate course of action.
one TN
None of the stock I drive has the facility to override the passenger alarm. If you pull the cord you dump the brake and the train stops wherever it stops. To get the thing moving again I have to come back in the train, find the alarm(s) that have been operated and reset them. I could bypass this in the cab if things were really very desperate indeed to get underway, but I still wouldn't know how bad things might be without first going back.
This is why the passenger alarm override and emergency intercom is a real bonus. It allows the passengers to quickly contact the driver to explain the situation, which in turn gives the driver the chance to assess the situation and choose the appropriate course of action. If you've got that on a train then fine, tug away. However, if there is any doubt in your mind about this then stop and think whether this really is the most appropriate course of action.
one TN
PUlling a cord in a station is the best idea, provided you can get a telephone link to 999/112 ASAP. Stopping in between wastes valuable time and, in the case of say a heart attack, would probably only make the condition worse.
I don't know what a real driver would do but, of the cord was pulled on a limited stop services and I was near a station, I would stop at it to allow a quick and easy evacuation if needed. I think a driver would notice the train being on fire somehow and if not, the guard can communicate on many trains IIRC. Of course, of you're in the middle of nowhere between Aberdeen and Inverness, best thing is to stop. Why wait potentially 30 minutes when you can get an ambulance to, say, just off this road here? Would probably be quicker.
Best thing is to be able to talk to a moving driver in such a circumstance. This prevents the train stopping in cases of prank or accidental pulling of the cord, and if the driver knows the nature of the emergency, can act appropriately. eg. In a fire stop ASAP, for a medical emergency, use route knowledge to determine if a suitible station nearby is the better option for emergency services.
Out of curiosity, on, say, a 2x158 unit, if the rear unit goes on fire, can the crew evacuate and separate the front unit to stop that going on fire or would it take too long? Assuming the fire was in the very rear of the train, of course.
I don't know what a real driver would do but, of the cord was pulled on a limited stop services and I was near a station, I would stop at it to allow a quick and easy evacuation if needed. I think a driver would notice the train being on fire somehow and if not, the guard can communicate on many trains IIRC. Of course, of you're in the middle of nowhere between Aberdeen and Inverness, best thing is to stop. Why wait potentially 30 minutes when you can get an ambulance to, say, just off this road here? Would probably be quicker.
Best thing is to be able to talk to a moving driver in such a circumstance. This prevents the train stopping in cases of prank or accidental pulling of the cord, and if the driver knows the nature of the emergency, can act appropriately. eg. In a fire stop ASAP, for a medical emergency, use route knowledge to determine if a suitible station nearby is the better option for emergency services.
Out of curiosity, on, say, a 2x158 unit, if the rear unit goes on fire, can the crew evacuate and separate the front unit to stop that going on fire or would it take too long? Assuming the fire was in the very rear of the train, of course.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Indeed. That's the beauty of being able to choose.
A driver's route knowledge is such that they will know for any given location on any given route where the next convenient access point will be. It may be a station platform (any station platform) or it may not. Anywhere that allows easy access to the railway where the emergency services can get to you and you can shepherd the punters out if you decide an evacuation is necessary would be fine. It could be a crossing of some type or just a stretch of line parallel to a road, it doesn't really matter. Likewise, there are places that a driver knows not to stop if at all possible because it can make matters far worse.
one TN
A driver's route knowledge is such that they will know for any given location on any given route where the next convenient access point will be. It may be a station platform (any station platform) or it may not. Anywhere that allows easy access to the railway where the emergency services can get to you and you can shepherd the punters out if you decide an evacuation is necessary would be fine. It could be a crossing of some type or just a stretch of line parallel to a road, it doesn't really matter. Likewise, there are places that a driver knows not to stop if at all possible because it can make matters far worse.
one TN
Tom B
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The problem is, you can think "oh if this happened I'd do this", but if such an event were to happen you'd probably just do whatever came naturally.
As for a fire on board, one would have thought that stopping the train immediately would be better, as it would remove the huge draft which would otherwise help the fire spread.
As for a fire on board, one would have thought that stopping the train immediately would be better, as it would remove the huge draft which would otherwise help the fire spread.
If a fire started, and you can see it, obviously if the flames are outside that's an issue. But go the nearest fire extinguisher and try and put it out yourself. Of course, if the fire is too large then staff will need to be informed if they are not already.
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